The death penalty. [Archive] - Page 2

Death

May 28th, 2011, 12:05 PM

I 100% support the death penalty for vicious murderers, rapists and paedophiles who have acted on their urges and raped a child - especially if they did it more than once. Their guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt, though, such as through DNA, witnesses and of course a guilty plea. They should have the right to appeals of course if new evidence arises. The reason I support this, is because none of these sickos

Good job, you've just called yourself a sicko, hypocrite.

can seriously be rehabilitated into society, you're seriously deluded IMO if you think they are.

First of all, learn to debate without resorting to pointless attacks like these without reason. Second of all, stop pretending that you either kill or rehabilitate people. It's fucking pathetic.

I am aware that it's actually more costly to execute someone than imprison them for life, but their execution removes 100% of their chance to reoffend. Whereas, in prison, they can possibly escape..

How? This won't be possible in a good prison. But they can be released and compensated, when later found to be innocent, unlike with a corpse. I must have said this a dozen times already, but you radical conservatives never seem to be able to comprehend simple concepts.

or they can harm prison staff or other inmates. If/when they get released..

Then don't release them. Duh.

they're unemployable, especially if they're older. Who wants to hire an ex-con who was inside of murder/rape/etc? Seriously, any employer will look at their criminal record and throw up. Then they'll live off the state and cost the taxpayer even more money, or worse, go back into crime; possibly even commit another heinous crime.

So you basically want to murder those who murder to show that murder is wrong? What a load of hypocritical bullshit. How can you claim to be better than murderers when you become the monster you're hunting?

slappy

May 28th, 2011, 12:46 PM

Well, the death penalty (i beleve) is useless.
We spend more money killing people in prison then keeping someone alive
In poor neibheorhoods. When it comes to cost, it costs more money to pout someone to death than just to lock them up for the rest of there lives. What I don't understand is that most conservatives support the death penalty, yet they want less taxes and they want our government to spend less money. So why are we pouting people to death? I beleve it all comes down to men and what gets there dick hard. They feel more manly when they can say that they killed someone and justice was served, no justice was served, we just sunk down to the person we killed level. It doesn't make us better people when we can say we killed someone and we think justice was served. The death penalty is a waist of money and time. On the other hand, prisons are over crowded and states are being forced to let some go. Here in California, we are about to reduce the prison population by 40,000 because of an order by the supreme court. That doesnt mean we are letting 40,00 prisoners loose, it just means we arent pouting as many people on prison as we used to and people who get out will have a harder time getting back in. It's an okay system but it needs a face lift

Bimmerhead

May 30th, 2011, 12:52 PM

You obviously missed the bit where I posted the shitload of reasons against the death penalty.

But it's not just that. It's a compilation of everything you've said in this thread and the other that makes it very difficult for anyone to take you seriously.

All you did was fantasise about slowly killing people. Pretty sick really. Oh, and I don't remember insulting your intelligence.

Are there humane ways of raping people?

I don't give a shit about pain. I've already posted everything I have against the death penalty, so why don't you adress that instead?

So you want to be a hypocrite then? Like Donkey said earlier, you wish to kill people who kill to show people that killing is wrong?

How many innocents must be executed who could have been released an compensated before you realise how monstrous this is?

Wow Dude you need to get laid you have a lot of bent up hostility and free time to argue WITH EVERYONE who post there OPINIONS! You take everything so personally take a chill pill dude. Are you just stupid or did you not read what I posted?? These are real numbers from just a few years ago and those cost have gone up considerably The death penalty costs all the money it does because its not more regularly used. If we made executing a person (IE a vicious rapist) a quicker process so he isn't on death row for the better part of a decade, costs would go down considerably! Why are we wasting 250k on a top notch lawyer for years on these people? It isn't the lethal injections that cost 250k dude! Make death row shorter and the death penalty cheaper! Why the fuck do I care if he rots in prison and gets 3 meals a day? This is for the good of society not just a select few. Plus I shouldn't even be having this conversation with you the US and the UK are different in its needs a policies right now.

slappy

May 31st, 2011, 01:14 AM

:yeah:^^ OH, SNAP!!!!!!!! ^^

I agree with u some of the way Lol

Amnesiac

May 31st, 2011, 02:01 AM

Wow Dude you need to get laid you have a lot of bent up hostility and free time to argue WITH EVERYONE who post there OPINIONS! You take everything so personally take a chill pill dude. Are you just stupid or did you not read what I posted??

Well, you're off to a great start there, feisty one.

These are real numbers from just a few years ago and those cost have gone up considerably The death penalty costs all the money it does because its not more regularly used. If we made executing a person (IE a vicious rapist) a quicker process so he isn't on death row for the better part of a decade, costs would go down considerably! Why are we wasting 250k on a top notch lawyer for years on these people?

Gee, I dunno, to make it, uhh, fair? Do you not understand the concepts of a "fair trial" and "innocent until proven guilty"?

You're taking execution too lightly. If capital punishment is going to stay, every possible safeguard against killing an innocent person needs to be put in place. That costs a lot of money, and takes a lot of time. And it still isn't a perfect system, not even close.

It isn't the lethal injections that cost 250k dude! Make death row shorter and the death penalty cheaper! Why the fuck do I care if he rots in prison and gets 3 meals a day? This is for the good of society not just a select few. Plus I shouldn't even be having this conversation with you the US and the UK are different in its needs a policies right now.

How is executing someone any better than locking them up? They both provide the same thing to society, that is, they both keep the criminal out of it. One just costs a ridiculous amount less than the other, and is more humane, and doesn't run the risk of taking the life of an innocent person.

Oh, but no, we have to get our petty revenge.

Death

May 31st, 2011, 04:22 AM

Wow Dude you need to get laid you have a lot of bent up hostility and free time to argue WITH EVERYONE who post there OPINIONS!

And here you are being hostile now claiming I need to get laid just because I posted mine. Suffice to say, you're being a hypocrite. And you claim to be better, how?

You take everything so personally take a chill pill dude.

Hahahaha! Oh the irony of this statement. I think we all know who needs to chill. Speaking of which, it's no wonder you have negative reputation.

Are you just stupid or did you not read what I posted??

There we go, another personal attack. Just shows how founded your claims against me were.

These are real numbers from just a few years ago and those cost have gone up considerably

And my opinion is that we are spending more money than we need to on prisoners. What part of that don't you understand? Oh no but wait, you do, but you just don't want to.

The death penalty costs all the money it does because its not more regularly used. If we made executing a person (IE a vicious rapist) a quicker process so he isn't on death row for the better part of a decade, costs would go down considerably! Why are we wasting 250k on a top notch lawyer for years on these people?

The fact that you will go through monstrous and innocent-killign processes like this just because of something like money is very worrying.

It isn't the lethal injections that cost 250k dude! Make death row shorter and the death penalty cheaper! Why the fuck do I care if he rots in prison and gets 3 meals a day?

Again, he doesn't need to get said meals.

This is for the good of society not just a select few.

Like the "good" you are doing for this forum by personally attacking everyone who disagrees with you? If I haven't been more mature than you, why have I been repped five times in this thread alone bumping my rep power up what is almost a fifth of my total reputation? You don't get that without contributing. You, on the other hand, have complained about my attitude whilst insulting me and claiming I don't get laid, which is a personall attack. Oh the irony.

Plus I shouldn't even be having this conversation with you the US and the UK are different in its needs a policies right now.

How very mature of you to say so.

:yeah:^^ OH, SNAP!!!!!!!! ^^

I agree with u some of the way Lol

Coming from someone who posted personal attacks against deadpie in the Suicide thread simply because he didn't agree with you. Suffice to say that this post is both pointless and in a way two-faced.

Azunite

May 31st, 2011, 07:35 AM

I can't beleive you people are still arguing about this: You are making no contribution to the thread, you are just drawing circles.

slappy

May 31st, 2011, 03:20 PM

And here you are being hostile now claiming I need to get laid just because I posted mine. Suffice to say, you're being a hypocrite. And you claim to be better, how?

Hahahaha! Oh the irony of this statement. I think we all know who needs to chill. Speaking of which, it's no wonder you have negative reputation.

There we go, another personal attack. Just shows how founded your claims against me were.

And my opinion is that we are spending more money than we need to on prisoners. What part of that don't you understand? Oh no but wait, you do, but you just don't want to.

The fact that you will go through monstrous and innocent-killign processes like this just because of something like money is very worrying.

Again, he doesn't need to get said meals.

Like the "good" you are doing for this forum by personally attacking everyone who disagrees with you? If I haven't been more mature than you, why have I been repped five times in this thread alone bumping my rep power up what is almost a fifth of my total reputation? You don't get that without contributing. You, on the other hand, have complained about my attitude whilst insulting me and claiming I don't get laid, which is a personall attack. Oh the irony.

How very mature of you to say so.

Coming from someone who posted personal attacks against deadpie in the Suicide thread simply because he didn't agree with you. Suffice to say that this post is both pointless and in a way two-faced.

LOL
Don't even get me started on that kid, he is the one trying to start fights, I simply stated my opinion. Go and read it again.

Bimmerhead

May 31st, 2011, 05:18 PM

And here you are being hostile now claiming I need to get laid just because I posted mine. Suffice to say, you're being a hypocrite. And you claim to be better, how?

No I was hostile because you were hostile first. Dont expect to bite and not get bitten back. Thats how the world works and if you dont learn that simple lesson soon life is going to be filled with disappointment for you.

Hahahaha! Oh the irony of this statement. I think we all know who needs to chill. Speaking of which, it's no wonder you have negative reputation.

Ha ha ha so now we are going into rep power are we! Dude I have things like, a social life, a job, school and many other responsibilities so I dont have time to argue with people like you on a forum for teenagers lol! But hey im glad your internet rep score is so high that means everyone on the INTERNET loves you! :) And hey Im not here to be popular and to get some green squares. Im here to state my honest opinion in a public forum of my peers when I get time in my busy schedule.

And my opinion is that we are spending more money than we need to on prisoners. What part of that don't you understand? Oh no but wait, you do, but you just don't want to.

I think we are spending too much on prisoners too! Thats why we need to practice a little something called population control in the prison system! All convicted murders and rapists should be Audi 5000 my friend. Lethal injection or the chair whichever is cheaper. I wont have to worry about it because I wont ever be there! You had also said something about a killing spree to save money?? How are these people innocent? They have been convicted by the best legal system in existence! Not saying it isnt flawed but they went through due process and were convicted of their crimes and therefore should be sentenced to death! For the good of society. So that we may focus our resources on more important things like making sure people never end up in prison to begin with! By sending this money to intercity schools to curb gang violence and put my country back on the map. I bet you were not also aware that our eduction system is LAST out of every progressive country in the world. Yet we are the most powerful country in the world. This is because of gross mismanagement of resources and unless something isn't done fast we will never come out of it. But hey the prison system is just one problem... I may be a little extreme but if anyone agrees with me thats great! If you dont well thats fine too because that is the point of this thread correct?

RoseyCadaver

May 31st, 2011, 05:30 PM

I can't beleive you people are still arguing about this: You are making no contribution to the thread, you are just drawing circles.

Agreed.I think it will stay the same,I would love for it not to be legal,but I seriouslly doubt it will change anytime soon.

embers

May 31st, 2011, 08:54 PM

I think we are spending too much on prisoners too! Thats why we need to practice a little something called population control in the prison system! All convicted murders and rapists should be Audi 5000 my friend. Lethal injection or the chair whichever is cheaper. I wont have to worry about it because I wont ever be there! You had also said something about a killing spree to save money?? How are these people innocent? They have been convicted by the best legal system in existence! Not saying it isnt flawed but they went through due process and were convicted of their crimes and therefore should be sentenced to death! For the good of society. So that we may focus our resources on more important things like making sure people never end up in prison to begin with! By sending this money to intercity schools to curb gang violence and put my country back on the map. I bet you were not also aware that our eduction system is LAST out of every progressive country in the world. Yet we are the most powerful country in the world. This is because of gross mismanagement of resources and unless something isn't done fast we will never come out of it. But hey the prison system is just one problem... I may be a little extreme but if anyone agrees with me thats great! If you dont well thats fine too because that is the point of this thread correct?

Yo, let's kill all murderers and rapists because they're all fucking sickos with sick motives and I have the moral high ground in a very hypocritical fashion and it doesn't affect me so fuck yeah let's just do it, it's not like they have families that care or anything.

Death may have a pissed off tone of voice, but for a damn good reason: because after pages of shooting down the arguments made in this thread, the same points are raised again and again regardless of the previous arguments. Just because you feel your country is spending too much on prisons, it doesn't mean you should travel over all the way to the other extreme of executing the people. God damn, son.

Bimmerhead

May 31st, 2011, 10:20 PM

Yo, let's kill all murderers and rapists because they're all fucking sickos with sick motives and I have the moral high ground in a very hypocritical fashion and it doesn't affect me so fuck yeah let's just do it, it's not like they have families that care or anything.

Death may have a pissed off tone of voice, but for a damn good reason: because after pages of shooting down the arguments made in this thread, the same points are raised again and again regardless of the previous arguments. Just because you feel your country is spending too much on prisons, it doesn't mean you should travel over all the way to the other extreme of executing the people. God damn, son.

So now we are spending Billions of dollars on murderers and rapists to rot in prison just to make their families feel better?! That a ridiculous statement! Hey guys instead of using the money on programs to keep people out of prison system, lets just let our public school system go down the toilet so we can then SPEND MORE MONEY on the prison system because everyone is to stupid to keep themselves out of it! Wow thats a great idea your such a smart person. People like you are the reason why our generation are a bunch of idiots who will be the downfall of my country!

Death

June 1st, 2011, 04:10 AM

LOL
Don't even get me started on that kid, he is the one trying to start fights, I simply stated my opinion. Go and read it again.

You're in denial, simply because you didn't agree. I read that thread a few times, and you overreacted to deadpie quite horribly. I also know deadpie and although he can be a little forceful at times, he is far from a troll and, unlike you, actually contributed to the thread. Coming to think of it, going out of your way to piss him off was probably not a good idea.

No I was hostile because you were hostile first.

I disagreed with you and voiced it plainly, so that makes me hostile?

Dont expect to bite and not get bitten back. Thats how the world works and if you dont learn that simple lesson soon life is going to be filled with disappointment for you.

Except I'm not the one whining here. I was just trying to debate. What'ya want? A cookie?

Ha ha ha so now we are going into rep power are we! Dude I have things like, a social life, a job, school and many other responsibilities so I dont have time to argue with people like you on a forum for teenagers lol!

With an immature attitude like this, why are you even on a debate thread whose purpose is to debate? If you don't want to debate properly, don't you think you're on the wrong place? Oh, and by the way, i also have a life. That does not strip me of the right to debate here, however.

But hey im glad your internet rep score is so high that means everyone on the INTERNET loves you! :) And hey Im not here to be popular and to get some green squares. Im here to state my honest opinion in a public forum of my peers when I get time in my busy schedule.

But it's not just about stating. It's your agressive attitude toward the idea of backing up your opinions when someone tries to refute you. If you really cannot debate in a debate forum, than it would be better to leave than just whinge the whole time.

I think we are spending too much on prisoners too! Thats why we need to practice a little something called population control in the prison system!

No, that's why we spend less on the individual prisoners so that they have a worse time, but can still be released if found innocent.

All convicted murders and rapists should be Audi 5000 my friend. Lethal injection or the chair whichever is cheaper.

There's more to morality than just money though. If money is all you think about in your moral framework, than I think it could do with some work.

I wont have to worry about it because I wont ever be there!

That's a very foolish thing to assume. For all you know, you could be falsely charged of rape (has happened) and then be executed for it, only to be proven innocent a month later. Oh no but wait, because it's already too late for you, right?

You had also said something about a killing spree to save money?? How are these people innocent? They have been convicted by the best legal system in existence!

Don't be silly. It may be the best, but that doesn't make it flawless. It's still run be humans, who are, well, only human. Humans make mistakes. But a worse one is killing people who could be later found innocent.

Not saying it isnt flawed but they went through due process and were convicted of their crimes and therefore should be sentenced to death!

Again, wrong, for reasons I've stated countless times above.

For the good of society.

Oh sure, killing those who kill to show people that killing is wrong really is good, right? I also suppose you help all those poor, falsely accused innocents who could have been later released. Grow up.

So that we may focus our resources on more important things like making sure people never end up in prison to begin with!

*Facepalm*, life and liberty isn't important?

So now we are spending Billions of dollars on murderers and rapists to rot in prison just to make their families feel better?!

No, because we should only spend enough to barely keep them alive, since that's what they deserve (seeing as it's worse than death). Oh, and do you think death row isn't expensive? Probably more so.

That a ridiculous statement!

LOL. You'll get over it eventually.

Hey guys instead of using the money on programs to keep people out of prison system, lets just let our public school system go down the toilet so we can then SPEND MORE MONEY on the prison system because everyone is to stupid to keep themselves out of it! Wow thats a great idea your such a smart person. People like you are the reason why our generation are a bunch of idiots who will be the downfall of my country!

See, another personal attack. The fact that you think I have an agressive attitude is so hilariously hypocritical, it is almost hard to believe.

Death may have a pissed off tone of voice, but for a damn good reason: because after pages of shooting down the arguments made in this thread, the same points are raised again and again regardless of the previous arguments. Just because you feel your country is spending too much on prisons, it doesn't mean you should travel over all the way to the other extreme of executing the people. God damn, son.

Thank you. I don't know why I didn't think of saying this.

embers

June 1st, 2011, 05:36 AM

So now we are spending Billions of dollars on murderers and rapists to rot in prison just to make their families feel better?! That a ridiculous statement! Hey guys instead of using the money on programs to keep people out of prison system, lets just let our public school system go down the toilet so we can then SPEND MORE MONEY on the prison system because everyone is to stupid to keep themselves out of it! Wow thats a great idea your such a smart person. People like you are the reason why our generation are a bunch of idiots who will be the downfall of my country!

I never said raise the money spent on prisoners - you're assuming things. I'm all for taking a shit ton of money out of the prison system, because at the moment the idea defeats the purpose. What I'm NOT for is executing them as 'population control', I mean, how fucking cruel can you be. Also, people have said this time and time again and have provided their sources, but the death penalty costs more than life in prison. Don't tell me who wants to spend more on the prison system.

Lol, I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you. What a sensible argument. As for downfall of your country, I think you'll find that I live in England and I can watch people like you who still argue for such primitive things like this argue from afar.

RyTwy

June 1st, 2011, 05:56 AM

If there is 100% proof of someone commiting a crime, which is possible nowerdays with the amount of CCTV about, then Yes, why should they have the right to live. Kill them, for Killing.

~Twy xo

Infidelitas

June 1st, 2011, 06:27 AM

If there is 100% proof of someone commiting a crime, which is possible nowerdays with the amount of CCTV about,

There isn't CCTV in the middle of the bush where some people get murdered.

then Yes, why should they have the right to live. Kill them, for Killing.

Why should they get the easy way out of the crime that they committed? Why can't they suffer in the cell like the person they murdered? Because the last moments of their life were taken up with abuse (most cases anyway). Why shouldnt they have to think over what they have done for the rest of their lives?

Azunite

June 1st, 2011, 12:25 PM

New Guy and Bimmer: Quit trolling.

xChrisVx

June 1st, 2011, 04:47 PM

I personally believe that the death penalty should be reintroduced in Great Britain.

There may be a morality issue in it but how can the taxpayer afford to keep a convicted murderer, serial killer, serial rapist or whatever in prison for 20 years. I don't know about the US but prisons are like hotels in Britain in my opinion, not a place for punishment which was their original purpose. It is people like Peter Tobin who preyed on young females who are prime examples why the death penalty should come back. Prisoners always moan here about how their human rights have been breached by being forced to 'slop out' (Pee in a bucket basically) but they didn't respect the rights of their victim did they........

MadManWithaBox

June 1st, 2011, 05:23 PM

Sorry, not getting involved but, is the death penalty really more expensive than putting a guy in prison for the rest of his life? Not as a hostile query, just curious.

embers

June 1st, 2011, 07:19 PM

Sorry, not getting involved but, is the death penalty really more expensive than putting a guy in prison for the rest of his life? Not as a hostile query, just curious.

THE (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty) DEATH (http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html) PENALTY (http://lubbockonline.com/stories/121309/loc_535156806.shtml) IS (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2009/1020/p02s04-usju.html) MORE (http://badgerherald.com/oped/2006/09/04/death_penalty_ineffe.php) EXPENSIVE (http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/nyuls18&div=34&id=&page=) THAN (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/sentencing-life-americans-embrace-alternatives-death-penalty) LIFE (http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/davlr18&div=37&id=&page=) IN (http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/lla23&div=12&id=&page=) PRISON (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YX-StxS_-tsC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=death+penalty+more+expensive&ots=obADd12nQw&sig=uBrLlmCqJuaGSQPmbm59XmO9T4o#v=onepage&q=death%20penalty%20more%20expensive&f=false).

...yes.

I personally believe that the death penalty should be reintroduced in Great Britain.

There may be a morality issue in it but how can the taxpayer afford to keep a convicted murderer, serial killer, serial rapist or whatever in prison for 20 years. I don't know about the US but prisons are like hotels in Britain in my opinion, not a place for punishment which was their original purpose. It is people like Peter Tobin who preyed on young females who are prime examples why the death penalty should come back. Prisoners always moan here about how their human rights have been breached by being forced to 'slop out' (Pee in a bucket basically) but they didn't respect the rights of their victim did they........

Yeah, there may be economical issues with keeping people in prisons, but I don't think that the death penalty extreme is the way to go. We've already progressed from primitive justice systems. Why not just choose the more sensible alternative and just take a shit ton of money out of the prison system? Have enough to keep them in fair conditions, but not the luxuries they receive now. Besides, we've said time and time again that the death penalty would prove more expensive.

Also, not all people convicted of murder and rape carry the same mindset. If you want to execute people for having that relentless, unforgivable mindset then you're going to have to do what someone mentioned very early on in this thread, which is to trawl through individual cases. And that would be an even bigger waste of time and money.

wally

June 1st, 2011, 08:49 PM

embers

June 1st, 2011, 08:56 PM

i am a huge believer in the death penalty, because there are toxic/evil people in this world that do not deserve to live. such as; the people that led the nazi army in Germany, the leaders of apartheid in South Africa, and the leaders of the terrorists who bombed my home county on September 11th. these people do not deserve to live for the pain and grief that they caused to innocent people, and their loved ones.

What about Tony Blair and George Bush, then?

wally

June 1st, 2011, 09:02 PM

What about Tony Blair and George Bush, then?

i 100% support the actions of george bush. when you are young, you are taught not to let others bully you. and if someone bullies you, you need to stand up for yourself and not be a push over. george bush was a somewhat new president at the time, and those leaders in the middle east decided that they would bully him and his country to see what he was made of. he responded just like a great nation such as america should, and to not let others target and harm citizens of his country. unfortunately many people in the middle east lost their lives as well, but george bush was acting in the self-defense interests of america.

and i appologize, i do not know who tony blair is. so i will neither support nor refute their actions.

Amnesiac

June 1st, 2011, 10:50 PM

i 100% support the actions of george bush. when you are young, you are taught not to let others bully you. and if someone bullies you, you need to stand up for yourself and not be a push over. george bush was a somewhat new president at the time, and those leaders in the middle east decided that they would bully him and his country to see what he was made of. he responded just like a great nation such as america should, and to not let others target and harm citizens of his country. unfortunately many people in the middle east lost their lives as well, but george bush was acting in the self-defense interests of america.

That's not what happened.

What happened is a bunch of rogue terrorists took down a couple of skyscrapers, and Bush decided to invade Iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks. And then we got stuck in Afghanistan, which is a pointless war that will never end.

Besides, we're not talking about executing dictators and other horrible people like that. We're talking about your violent criminals that you could find at your local federal prison.

Thylacine

June 1st, 2011, 11:58 PM

I believe that the Death penalty violates the Universal Declaration of human rights it is animalistic in nature and immoral. If we kill the killers then we are just as bad as them. I think that a modern and sophisticated society should not have the Death Penalty.

WOOT 100th POST!!!

embers

June 2nd, 2011, 05:37 AM

TuRdz

June 2nd, 2011, 05:37 AM

New Guy and Bimmer: Quit trolling.

How are they trolling? They're debating...
I can feel some neg-rep coming my way for saying that *facepalm*
You obviously have no idea what exactly a troll is.

Continuum

June 2nd, 2011, 06:13 AM

How are they trolling? They're debating...
I can feel some neg-rep coming my way for saying that *facepalm*
You obviously have no idea what exactly a troll is.

Oh, I have an idea!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__Xj7En3AJDE/TRjAI9G5HsI/AAAAAAAADpU/RjFkBBQEE_A/s1600/troll-dolls.jpg

Your opinions are not even going anywhere AT ALL. Can't we just give this horse a rest? Honestly though, we are all wasting your time on something that has been disproven a number of pages ago. And with all that petty babble, you people are dragging us pointlessly around loops of Pointless banter. Do us a favor please, and try to think of an opinion that doesn't end up in a loop of shit.

wally

June 2nd, 2011, 01:53 PM

You might want to go over what you just said, I think more than a tad bit might be opinionated bullshit.

this whole thread is opinions. i didnt knock your opinions, mostly because i havent really heard them, but there is no reason for you to tell me that my opinion is bullshit. these are my beliefs and you will not change them, this thread is simply a means for people to state their opinions, whether you like them or not i 100% stand behind what i say and that will not change anytime soon.

and on a smaller scale, why should an individual who murders someone and causes griefs to that persons family get to live? they took the life of someone which violates that persons natural rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." the murderer is just gonna spend the rest of their life in prison anyway, so it is the just thing for them to die aswell. this can give the deceased's family hope in knowing the slimeball who killed their loved one will never kill someone else ever again.

the means for the death penalty do not need to be expensive. as i'm pretty sure that as long as the cruel person who committed the crime is dead, the deceased's loved one's will not care how they died.

embers

June 2nd, 2011, 02:37 PM

this whole thread is opinions. i didnt knock your opinions, mostly because i havent really heard them, but there is no reason for you to tell me that my opinion is bullshit. these are my beliefs and you will not change them, this thread is simply a means for people to state their opinions, whether you like them or not i 100% stand behind what i say and that will not change anytime soon.

There is a difference between having an opinion and not knowing facts. I appreciate that you have your opinions, but you seem to think George Bush is some sort of parading hero that rescued America from constant bullying via 'terrorism'. It is nothing like that. The invasion of Iraq was an absolute shitstorm of wrong decisions.

and on a smaller scale, why should an individual who murders someone and causes griefs to that persons family get to live? they took the life of someone which violates that persons natural rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." the murderer is just gonna spend the rest of their life in prison anyway, so it is the just thing for them to die aswell. this can give the deceased's family hope in knowing the slimeball who killed their loved one will never kill someone else ever again.

Should the executor live if he is causing griefs to the killer's family? It isn't their fault their relative/son/daughter ended up murdering or raping somebody, and they certainly shouldn't have to pay for it the same way the victim's family did. In that sense, the death penalty even creates new victims.

Also, the murderer isn't going to necessarily spend the rest of his life in prison. Only around 25 years of it.

the means for the death penalty do not need to be expensive. as i'm pretty sure that as long as the cruel person who committed the crime is dead, the deceased's loved one's will not care how they died.

Or maybe the deceased's loved ones won't even want the criminal dead. Or maybe they want him tortured. Or castrated. Or just locked up. Don't speak for them.

Azunite

June 2nd, 2011, 03:01 PM

Has nobody in this thread heard the saying: "An eye for an eye makes the world blind." ?

embers

June 2nd, 2011, 04:50 PM

Has nobody in this thread heard the saying: "An eye for an eye makes the world blind." ?

It was mentioned a while ago.

Korashk

June 2nd, 2011, 07:09 PM

It was mentioned a while ago.
It's also a pointless and stupid quote.

embers

June 2nd, 2011, 07:20 PM

It's also a pointless and stupid quote.

Hence why we moved on.

RoseyCadaver

June 2nd, 2011, 11:12 PM

Hey I was the one who said that quote!Thanks guys :[.Lol I agree this thread seems to be going no where.

For the sake of debate I'll say it isn't mans right to take away a life,and it makes us just as bad for alowing to be going on.

TuRdz

June 3rd, 2011, 03:39 AM

Sometimes, I dream about cheese...

Death

June 3rd, 2011, 04:08 AM

this whole thread is opinions. i didnt knock your opinions, mostly because i havent really heard them, but there is no reason for you to tell me that my opinion is bullshit.

But it is, and we're not liars. Therefore, we believe it right to tell the truth. And hence, we say your opinion is bullshit.

these are my beliefs and you will not change them,

If I had a pound for everytime someone said that horseshit to me, I'd probably be so much fucking richer. If you are completely close-minded to debate, then why the fuck are you on a forum whose purpose is solely to debate? Fuck.

this thread is simply a means for people to state their opinions, whether you like them or not i 100% stand behind what i say and that will not change anytime soon.

No. In case you actually hadn't noticed, it's more than that.

and on a smaller scale, why should an individual who murders someone and causes griefs to that persons family get to live?

Because you don't know that they are a murderer. But then I've said that a million fucking times on this thread anyway. How many innocents, who could have later been released and compensated, have to be killed before you realise the blatent hypocrisy in what you're suggesting?

they took the life of someone which violates that persons natural rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

So you respond to sinking down to their level and doing exactly the same thing that you're condemning to them? You want to kill people who kill to show that killing is wrong (quoting Donkey from pages ago)? If you really can't see the logical loophole (and blatent hyopcrisy) in that, you really need to see a psychologist.

the murderer is just gonna spend the rest of their life in prison anyway, so it is the just thing for them to die aswell.

Until they are found innocent, in which case you'll have to explain to their already grieving family exactly why their innocent relative cannot be released back to them.

this can give the deceased's family hope in knowing the slimeball who killed their loved one will never kill someone else ever again.

Shut up. You know as well as anyone else that not all murderers are "slimeballs". Don't presume to know their intent. Ever heard of crime of passion or self-defence? Someone could kill someone for a reason that everyone else misinterprets. This doesn't justify it, but it does mean that they don't have to be "slimeballs". The fact that you're now resorting to pointless stuff like judging every single murderer shows that you're not debating; you're probably trolling.

the means for the death penalty do not need to be expensive. as i'm pretty sure that as long as the cruel person who committed the crime is dead, the deceased's loved one's will not care how they died.

:lol:

How are they trolling? They're debating...
I can feel some neg-rep coming my way for saying that *facepalm*
You obviously have no idea what exactly a troll is.

Posting this was probably a bad idea.

Sometimes, I dream about cheese...

Ugh, just get off the forum. It's obvious you're not going to contribute to it at all.

Bimmerhead

June 11th, 2011, 10:21 PM

Wow I see I didn't miss anything by not logging in for 2 weeks... Lets all come to the conclusion that we have our own views on this subject and that no matter what anyone says on this forum no one will sway from their views.

aussiebunnie

June 11th, 2011, 10:40 PM

GRGRGR

June 16th, 2011, 11:26 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the death penalty, but i think that spending the rest of your life in prison is more of a punishment than death.

Sith Lord 13

June 17th, 2011, 12:49 AM

but i think that spending the rest of your life in prison is more of a punishment than death.

Agreed, in fact, I think life without parole constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, and should be banned, to be replaced with the death penalty.

Death

June 17th, 2011, 10:41 AM

Agreed, in fact, I think life without parole constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, and should be banned, to be replaced with the death penalty.

What about when it comes to an innocent person who is later found to be so?

Or was this sarcasm?

Sith Lord 13

June 17th, 2011, 07:50 PM

What about when it comes to an innocent person who is later found to be so?

Or was this sarcasm?

It actually wasn't sarcasm. That's why I'm OK with the process being long and drawn out.

Death

June 18th, 2011, 03:59 AM

It actually wasn't sarcasm. That's why I'm OK with the process being long and drawn out.

That doesn't mean innocents will not be killed, which is probably among the worst things society can do, and it has and will happen with death penalty. And neither does it mean you're not becoming the very thing you're condemning. Wouldn't hard labour be more productive to society?

Bimmerhead

June 18th, 2011, 12:47 PM

That doesn't mean innocents will not be killed, which is probably among the worst things society can do, and it has and will happen with death penalty. And neither does it mean you're not becoming the very thing you're condemning. Wouldn't hard labour be more productive to society?

So innocents should be put to hard labor for the rest of their life? I think for me that would be worse then death!
It would only be more productive to society if each prisoners hard labor payed for their stay. But it doesn't. What could prisoners make (besides license plates) that could be of any value to anyone??

RoseyCadaver

June 18th, 2011, 12:54 PM

So innocents should be put to hard labor for the rest of their life? I think for me that would be worse then death!
It would only be more productive to society if each prisoners hard labor payed for their stay. But it doesn't. What could prisoners make (besides license plates) that could be of any value to anyone??

My aunt went to prison(she out now and living a rather productive life,she just had that incident.They do a lot more then making make license plate lol!

Care to elaborate why doing something productive is worse then death?

embers

June 18th, 2011, 03:36 PM

So innocents should be put to hard labor for the rest of their life? I think for me that would be worse then death!

At least they have a chance to be proven innocent then. If they were dead, then I'm pretty sure there's no point in releasing them if the original decision was found to be incorrect.

Bimmerhead

June 18th, 2011, 05:43 PM

My aunt went to prison(she out now and living a rather productive life,she just had that incident.They do a lot more then making make license plate lol!

Care to elaborate why doing something productive is worse then death?

I totally see what your saying. Your aunt did something she wasn't supposed to do and got jail time. But this wasn't an offence that warrants the death penalty. She is in a whole different category the way I see it. I think it would be a splendid idea to have them manufacturer things for this country. Think about it! Let say an american country like for instance apple had convicts making their products! cheap labor and we aren't having to outsource to china and other countries. In my opinion that's a much better idea. Forgoing the death penalty and making them work instead! For convicts that committed petty crimes IE stealing a car or robbing a store get time off there sentence for working. Better yet lets say they work for a company in prison they receive skills that will greatly benefit them outside of prison and maybe even a chance to work for said company when they are released. Making them productive members of society and less likely to end up back in prison.

At least they have a chance to be proven innocent then. If they were dead, then I'm pretty sure there's no point in releasing them if the original decision was found to be incorrect.
Yes but what if they are never proven innocent? How often does this REALLY happen too. It does happen but very rarely. A drastic decision like making the death penalty easier to implement and use will save us money in the long run but there will be the few that suffers. That will be the negative. But no system is perfect unfortunantly. Talking from my personal view that if I were to be wrongly accused and sentenced to life then I would rather be put to death. Prison is hell!!

Death

June 18th, 2011, 06:20 PM

At least they have a chance to be proven innocent then. If they were dead, then I'm pretty sure there's no point in releasing them if the original decision was found to be incorrect.

This.

Bimmerhead, I'm shocked you even needed telling this.

Bimmerhead

June 18th, 2011, 06:33 PM

This.

Bimmerhead, I'm shocked you even needed telling this.

You even needed telling this? Now who needs to watch their grammar lol

embers

June 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM

It does happen but very rarely. A drastic decision like making the death penalty easier to implement and use will save us money in the long run but there will be the few that suffers.

I don't know how many times this has been repeated, but the death penalty is not cheaper than life in prison.

Talking from my personal view that if I were to be wrongly accused and sentenced to life then I would rather be put to death. Prison is hell!!

That doesn't mean everybody else is going to. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people would prefer being alive just for the chance of being proven innocent. What don't you understand about that?

You even needed telling this? Now who needs to watch their grammar lol

If I read through every post of yours then I'm pretty sure I'd find more grammar errors than Death has made. It isn't uncommon for people to get tenses wrong ('needed telling this' being the mistake for 'needed to be told this').

Bimmerhead

June 18th, 2011, 09:51 PM

I don't know how many times this has been repeated, but the death penalty is not cheaper than life in prison.

Thats only because they sit on death row with an expensive lawyer for a decade!!

That doesn't mean everybody else is going to. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people would prefer being alive just for the chance of being proven innocent. What don't you understand about that?

What dont you understand about innocent until proven guilty! In these United States when you are proven guilty that's it! Its done, we shut the book on the case. If by SOME fluke we stumble upon some evidence that the person is innocent then yes they are released. I can account for that happening about 4 times since 1980 and all 4 people had movies made about them! So your asking me to get behind a flawed system that we continue dumping countless billions of dollars a year for so we MAY save 4 people in 30 years? Sorry but that's not going to happen. Considering countless more can be saved if we keep people out of prison by spending that money somewhere else!

If I read through every post of yours then I'm pretty sure I'd find more grammar errors than Death has made. It isn't uncommon for people to get tenses wrong ('needed telling this' being the mistake for 'needed to be told this').

Im sure you wouldn't lol. The reason I mentioned it is because he makes it a point to mention it every time I misspell a word. Its damn annoying and pointless, everyone makes mistakes. So could we be a little more mature and stop pointing out little flaws and stay on topic? Or is that asking to much?

Amnesiac

June 18th, 2011, 10:45 PM

Thats only because they sit on death row with an expensive lawyer for a decade!!

Actually, the expensive cost of the death penalty comes from the longer trials and extra examination required to ensure (but by no means guarantee) that nobody innocent is being executed. And, of course, upon conviction the individual always has the right to appeal, which opens up another lengthy court case to, once again, look over all the evidence. It has nothing to do with the time in prison or the lawyers. You can't make the death penalty any cheaper without increasing the probability that somebody innocent will be put on death row.

You can read more here (http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html).

embers

June 19th, 2011, 04:39 AM

Thats only because they sit on death row with an expensive lawyer for a decade!!

Read LithiumAneurysm/Justin's post.

What dont you understand about innocent until proven guilty!

By proven innocent I mean after they have been charged / put in prison.

I can account for that happening about 4 times since 1980 and all 4 people had movies made about them!

You're wrong on that. Several people have been wrongly charged with murder and have spent several years on death row in recent years: source (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-cases-2004-present).

So your asking me to get behind a flawed system that we continue dumping countless billions of dollars a year for so we MAY save 4 people in 30 years?

Yes, mainly because first of all your statistics are wrong, and secondly, because it makes more sense than spending even more money on a hypocritical and barbaric form of punishment.

CJLopez

June 19th, 2011, 05:00 AM

I feel being in prison for life is wasting tax dollars and our time on someone who made their choice and messed up their life accordingly. If they deserve to be in jail for life might as well end their life. The Death penalty is needed and is needed more. People don't change like they say they do. And if they do its only for a short period of time. Natural behaviors and re-occurring attitude cause alot of the issue with this. So yes I am all for the death penalty and believe everyone with life and prison should have it.

embers

June 19th, 2011, 05:14 AM

I feel being in prison for life is wasting tax dollars

If you'd have bothered to read through half of this thread then you would have realised that the death penalty is more expensive.

If they deserve to be in jail for life might as well end their life.

What if the accused are innocent? And why isn't it considered hypocritical to kill people who murder others?

People don't change like they say they do.

Source?

And if they do its only for a short period of time.

Source?

Natural behaviors and re-occurring attitude cause alot of the issue with this.

Source?

So yes I am all for the death penalty and believe everyone with life and prison should have it.

Even those who haven't committed murder? To me, that sounds pretty stupid.

CJLopez

June 19th, 2011, 05:21 AM

embers

June 19th, 2011, 05:29 AM

My source is I've had several family members and people I know in and out of jail and have known several people who have had life in prison. My source is life. If someone does change its a selected few who do.

You can't make the assumption that your personal experience of a few offenders reflects that of all or even most of them.

Bimmerhead

June 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM

embers

June 19th, 2011, 03:33 PM

Finally someone who sees the light! Ok fine since 1973 there have been 173 people released from the death penalty since 1973. That isn't a whole lot and that's only because we have a little thing called DNA evidence. We almost never wrongly convict people anymore with DNA evidence! Even when we didn't have it there are only 173 recorded cases.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty

Are you mad? 173 people spent an average of 9.8 years on death row. That's 173 people in around 38 years. That's over four people a year wrongly charged with the death penalty. If you're deluded enough to think that this is very little, then we've no reason to debate further. Also, more on the death penalty's unreliability (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/523).

Death

June 19th, 2011, 05:52 PM

You even needed telling this? Now who needs to watch their grammar lol

Everyone probably does that. Is this even an error?

Oh, and I believe you forgot to finish your sentence, hypocrite. Seriously though, you are. You've made more grammatical errors than I ever have.

Bimmerhead

June 19th, 2011, 07:35 PM

Everyone probably does that. Is this even an error?

Oh, and I believe you forgot to finish your sentence, hypocrite. Seriously though, you are. You've made more grammatical errors than I ever have.

Its the point that if you go through this thread you have made numerous comments towards my grammar. But then you are going to make a mistake?? Dude seriously whose the hypocrite here!?

Are you mad? 173 people spent an average of 9.8 years on death row. That's 173 people in around 38 years. That's over four people a year wrongly charged with the death penalty. If you're deluded enough to think that this is very little, then we've no reason to debate further. Also, more on the death penalty's unreliability (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/523).

Exactly! 4 people a year! I know this seems a little heartless but big deal! How many innocent civilians are killed every year in gang related shootings?
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/16769-4-killed-2-injured-in-medellin-gang-related-shootings.html
Here is four people in just one shooting! Thing about how many lives could be saved if the money being dumped in the prison systems was instead put somewhere else to curb gang violence! How many MORE people would be saved? A lot more then four I can tell you that much. Dude get real and stop being such a bleeding heart liberal. Just listen to yourself! Saving 4 people a year isn't worth 20 billion dollars of needless spending on the prison system!

Please use the Multiquote button ~ ShatteredWings

TheMatrix

June 20th, 2011, 01:35 AM

Exactly! 4 people a year! I know this seems a little heartless but big deal!
Yes. It is a big deal. No joke. What if you were one of those 4? Would it be a big deal then?(Careful what you say to that one, we WILL use it against you)

Here is four people in just one shooting! Thing about how many lives could be saved if the money being dumped in the prison systems was instead put somewhere else to curb gang violence!

Right. I feel it is time for a scenario:
Imagine a street in a bad neighbourhood. It is dark, around 2:00 in the morning. There is a truck driving with groceries to the local grocer. Many eyes peek out of the bushes and from behind trees.
All of a sudden, BOOM! A single shot is fired. The truck comes to a stop. A tire has been shot. People come out from behind the bushes and begin attacking the truck.
Now there is a person inside a nearby house. She sees all of this and calls the cops. The cops arrive, and cuff all the gang members. They are brought to court, and sentenced to death because of earlier incidents.
However, the sentences are not carried out because there was no funding for the prison system. So they are just released back into the streets to do what they want.

And the grocer? He is out of business because his truck didn't arrive.

How many MORE people would be saved?

A whole lot less.

A lot more then four I can tell you that much.

A whole lot LESS than four, I can tell you that much.

Dude get real and stop being such a bleeding heart liberal.

I've never heard of that one before.

Just listen to yourself!

Oh I am, don't worry.

Saving 4 people a year isn't worth 20 billion dollars of needless spending on the prison system!
OH HELL YES IT IS!!
I will now quote myself:
Yes. It is a big deal. No joke. What if you were one of those 4? Would it be a big deal then?(Careful what you say to that one, we WILL use it against you)

Oh, and you double-posted. Not looking good!

embers

June 20th, 2011, 03:37 AM

Exactly! 4 people a year! I know this seems a little heartless but big deal!

It is heartless. And it is a big deal. 4 people a year being wrongly accused of committing murder or an equivalent crime. 4 people a year wrongly sentenced to death.

How many innocent civilians are killed every year in gang related shootings?
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/16769-4-killed-2-injured-in-medellin-gang-related-shootings.html

Seriously, how is this even relevant? There is a massive difference between gang-related violence and the government's choice of punishment...

Here is four people in just one shooting! Thing about how many lives could be saved if the money being dumped in the prison systems was instead put somewhere else to curb gang violence!

Wait, I thought you wanted the death penalty instead of prison? I don't know how many times I have to say this before it even passes through your skull, but the death penalty is and will be more expensive than a prison sentence.

How many MORE people would be saved? A lot more then four I can tell you that much.

Not if you invest in the death penalty as an alternative to the prison system, no.

Dude get real and stop being such a bleeding heart liberal.

How about you stop being such a bleeding heart conservative, and consider for one moment that just because you may not commit murder in your life, how many people who wrongly die by the death penalty doesn't affect you and shouldn't be considered. Seriously, fuck your insensitivity.

Just listen to yourself! Saving 4 people a year isn't worth 20 billion dollars of needless spending on the prison system!

1. I'd like to see some stats on that 20 billion, but I don't doubt it is around that much.
2. Switching to an unreliable, barbaric form of punishment is worth even more than the prison system, just to end up killing even more than 4 people a year.

In your own words, get real.

Death

June 20th, 2011, 04:05 AM

Its the point that if you go through this thread you have made numerous comments towards my grammar. But then you are going to make a mistake?? Dude seriously whose the hypocrite here!?

LOL. Whose the hypocrite. I think you've mixed up possesive and "who is", hypocrite. :lol:

Oh, and just so you know, I don't complain at a few cases of bad grammar; I complain at people who don't even try and yuo find it hard to understand them.

HaydenM

June 20th, 2011, 04:05 AM

personally im against it for most things but for terrorism or massmurders

Death

June 20th, 2011, 04:07 AM

personally im against it for most things but for terrorism or massmurders

I.E. the very people you don't want to use it against. Terrorists want to die; they get hailed as martyrs for their cause and that solidifies the faith of other terrorists who are compelled to continue. As for mass murderers, you are doing the exact same thing for wich you are punishing them. Look at my signiture.

RoseyCadaver

June 20th, 2011, 04:10 AM

I.E. the very people you don't want to use it against. Terrorists want to die; they get hailed as martyrs for their cause and that solidifies the faith of other terrorists who are compelled to continue. As for mass murderers, you are doing the exact same thing for wich you are punishing them. Look at my signiture.

Plus,most(little that there is) wouldn't be trying to attack America IF our imperialist asses were over.You mess with the bull,you get the horns,but in no way agree with what they did.

Now back to the topic.I just find it a big oxymoron to kill someone who has killed someone.We call ourselves "civil" :rolleyes: .

Death

June 20th, 2011, 04:22 AM

Now back to the topic.I just find it a big oxymoron to kill someone who has killed someone.We call ourselves "civil" :rolleyes: .

I couldn't agree more, which is why I quoted Jon in my signiture. I still can't believe how many people do not see the blatent hypocrisy in ending the lives of those who end lives.

Azunite

June 20th, 2011, 04:43 AM

Please somebody lock this thread before I throw up...

Death

June 20th, 2011, 08:29 AM

Please somebody lock this thread before I throw up...

At least that would stop more and more newbies coming on and spewing the same nonsense that I've refuted on multiple pages.

Bimmerhead

June 20th, 2011, 11:16 AM

Yes. It is a big deal. No joke. What if you were one of those 4? Would it be a big deal then?(Careful what you say to that one, we WILL use it against you)
Hey Mr. 14 year old do me a favor and put your 7th grade reading skills to good use and read through the thread. I have already taken a stance to that question and obviously its not being used against me because you don't even have the common sense to read what I said in earlier posts :lol:

Right. I feel it is time for a scenario:
Imagine a street in a bad neighbourhood. It is dark, around 2:00 in the morning. There is a truck driving with groceries to the local grocer. Many eyes peek out of the bushes and from behind trees.
All of a sudden, BOOM! A single shot is fired. The truck comes to a stop. A tire has been shot. People come out from behind the bushes and begin attacking the truck.
Now there is a person inside a nearby house. She sees all of this and calls the cops. The cops arrive, and cuff all the gang members. They are brought to court, and sentenced to death because of earlier incidents.
However, the sentences are not carried out because there was no funding for the prison system. So they are just released back into the streets to do what they want.

And the grocer? He is out of business because his truck didn't arrive.

Awesome you just wasted about 20 seconds on my life on a scenario that doesn't even pertain to the situation right now little kid. Im not suggesting we cut funding for the prison system! Just trim the fat so we aren't having to spend as much on it. PLEASE READ noob! Oh and BTW there is things called insurance. They would cover any financial costs because he didn't make his delivery. All businesses have it!

A whole lot LESS than four, I can tell you that much.

Really so is this gut feeling or something? Or do you actually have any factual evidence to back that up? So your basically saying 20 billion dollars cant save more then 4 people a year if used somewhere else?? Jesus Christ!:confused:

It is heartless. And it is a big deal. 4 people a year being wrongly accused of committing murder or an equivalent crime. 4 people a year wrongly sentenced to death.
4 people a year! Thats it! How many people EVERY year are convicted of murder? About 14 thousand give or take! So if 4 out of 14k people are wrongly accused I would say we are doing pretty damn good! Not perfect but good!

Seriously, how is this even relevant? There is a massive difference between gang-related violence and the government's choice of punishment...
Well consider the people that could be saved if we took some of the extra money from what we would save by making the death penalty easier and cheaper (IE we don't sit on our hands for a decade paying a lawyer tax dollars) and putting it in to curbing gang violence!

Wait, I thought you wanted the death penalty instead of prison? I don't know how many times I have to say this before it even passes through your skull, but the death penalty is and will be more expensive than a prison sentence.

YES because the death penalty is needlessly long a difficult to use. Im sorry but I have no problems killing someone if they murdered and raped innocents! The world wouldn't miss them! Before you say "well what about their families!" Their families can suck a dick because what about the victims families?! I bet they would be happier knowing their family members killer got what he deserved!

How about you stop being such a bleeding heart conservative, and consider for one moment that just because you may not commit murder in your life, how many people who wrongly die by the death penalty doesn't affect you and shouldn't be considered. Seriously, fuck your insensitivity.
Fuck my insensitivity! I'm, insensitive to murderers and rapists! You got me! Because them an 4 other people every year are going to be affected by this! BIG DEAL!

1. I'd like to see some stats on that 20 billion, but I don't doubt it is around that much.
Here are those stats you ordered!
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/tommyb2b/US_criminal_justice_cost_timeline.gif
Its actually more like 70 billion per year on the prison system. Well that was 5 years ago so its probably gone up considerably since then. All im asking for is 20 billion. 20 billion saved and not wasted on people who will NEVER benefit society again. There are so many ways to trim the fat seriously! One of those ways is to make the death penalty cheaper and a less lengthy process!

LOL. Whose the hypocrite. I think you've mixed up possesive and "who is", hypocrite. :lol:

This is my issue with you. as per norm not adding anything to the conversation. Just talking smack. Seriously dude grow up if your not going to keep to the topic at hand don't bother posting. Your a joke dude lol

Oh, and just so you know, I don't complain at a few cases of bad grammar; I complain at people who don't even try and yuo find it hard to understand them.
Yuo? Im sorry I cant understand you? LOL Can you refrain from making mistakes hypocrite?
At least that would stop more and more newbies coming on and spewing the same nonsense that I've refuted on multiple pages.

What have you refuted in the last 3 pages? All you have done is take jabs at me! Lets be honest this conversation is really with Embers and I and you just an afterthought.

embers

June 20th, 2011, 12:25 PM

Hey Mr. 14 year old do me a favor and put your 7th grade reading skills to good use and read through the thread. I have already taken a stance to that question and obviously its not being used against me because you don't even have the common sense to read what I said in earlier posts :lol:

I've just turned 15 and am arguing with you fine. Don't take a jab at someone for their age.

4 people a year! Thats it! How many people EVERY year are convicted of murder? About 14 thousand give or take! So if 4 out of 14k people are wrongly accused I would say we are doing pretty damn good! Not perfect but good!

That's four people too many. Take into account the fact that they were on death row for an average of nearly ten years. That's a poor judicial system right there.

Well consider the people that could be saved if we took some of the extra money from what we would save by making the death penalty easier and cheaper (IE we don't sit on our hands for a decade paying a lawyer tax dollars) and putting it in to curbing gang violence!

No no no. Justin already covered this. The only way to make the death penalty 'easier and cheaper' is by making it even more inaccurate than it already is:

Actually, the expensive cost of the death penalty comes from the longer trials and extra examination required to ensure (but by no means guarantee) that nobody innocent is being executed. And, of course, upon conviction the individual always has the right to appeal, which opens up another lengthy court case to, once again, look over all the evidence. It has nothing to do with the time in prison or the lawyers. You can't make the death penalty any cheaper without increasing the probability that somebody innocent will be put on death row.

You can read more here (http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html).

YES because the death penalty is needlessly long a difficult to use. Im sorry but I have no problems killing someone if they murdered and raped innocents! The world wouldn't miss them! Before you say "well what about their families!" Their families can suck a dick because what about the victims families?! I bet they would be happier knowing their family members killer got what he deserved!

So you're blaming the families for something they can't control? You know what, if I ever move to the US with my family, then if my brother or another family member ends up committing murder, I'm gonna have a fun time being told to 'suck dick' from conservatives like you if he gets the death penalty. The victims' family should only be concerned about the killer, not their family, unless the family was involved in it.

Fuck my insensitivity! I'm, insensitive to murderers and rapists! You got me! Because them an 4 other people every year are going to be affected by this! BIG DEAL!

Wait, what? Who ever said I was worried about the people in prison? I oppose the death penalty because it's hypocritical and it should be outdated by now, not to mention the unnecessary implications it causes. A much simpler alternative would be to stop investing in luxuries for your prisons, because currently, they are much too caring. I'm not saying turn the conditions into hostile ones, but if you cut back on prison funding, then you will save much more money than the death penalty can ever get you.

There are so many ways to trim the fat seriously! One of those ways is to make the death penalty cheaper and a less lengthy process!

Again, read Justin's post. It increases the already unnecessary risk.

What have you refuted in the last 3 pages? All you have done is take jabs at me! Lets be honest this conversation is really with Embers and I and you just an afterthought.

Maybe if you'd have bothered to read through the pages before you would have seen Death contributing to this thread more usefully than I ever can.

and I hate that capital E.

Death

June 20th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Awesome you just wasted about 20 seconds on my life on a scenario that doesn't even pertain to the situation right now little kid.

:yawn: You'll get over it eventually.

Im not suggesting we cut funding for the prison system! Just trim the fat so we aren't having to spend as much on it. PLEASE READ noob!

Noob? And who was it who started bullshiting about grammar and doesn't understand the meaning of "contribution"?

Oh and BTW there is things called insurance. They would cover any financial costs because he didn't make his delivery. All businesses have it!

Is money the only thing you care about when it comes to moral desicions?

YES because the death penalty is needlessly long a difficult to use. Im sorry but I have no problems killing someone if they murdered and raped innocents!

Then why don't you kill yourself next? Because you will be doing exactly the same thing as those you kill. Murdering people, including potential innocents. But then you already knew that; you're just trolling, as per usual.

The world wouldn't miss them! Before you say "well what about their families!" Their families can suck a dick because what about the victims families?! I bet they would be happier knowing their family members killer got what he deserved!

So not only are you naive, but also homophobic? Sweet.

Oh, and this is implying that all killers are sadistic psychopaths.

Fuck my insensitivity!

Damn, what a negative attitude.

This is my issue with you.

Aww, what's up? Am I too smart for you?

as per norm not adding anything to the conversation.

TROLOLOLOL. Are you fucking serious? I've made pages of sound arguments adressing people like you and you say I've added nothing? Seriously, grow a fucking brain.

Just talking smack. Seriously dude grow up if your not going to keep to the topic at hand don't bother posting. Your a joke dude lol

Like you are now? Such hypocrisy. Somebody needs anger management I think. Speaking of which, if I'm the joke and you aren't, why have you disabled your rep?

Yuo? Im sorry I cant understand you? LOL Can you refrain from making mistakes hypocrite?

Another typo. Anyway, why the fuck are we going on about grammar? Serously dude, you've made loads more than me. "Its" and "It's" used wrong, "You're" and "Your", and so on. This is hypocrisy taken to its highest level. So unless your grammar is better than mine, then shut the fuck up about it. Never before have I encountered such immaturity. But then that does generally happen when someone's lost. Oh, and your lack of ability to understand me reflects your own intelligence more than it reflects how much I care about my posts being grammatically perfect, just so we're clear.

What have you refuted in the last 3 pages? All you have done is take jabs at me! Lets be honest this conversation is really with Embers and I and you just an afterthought.

LOL, what the fuck do you think? I've been debating with people on this before you even came. There are pages and pages of my contributions. It might help if you actually looked through them. Oh no but wait, trolls don't bother with that shit, right?

Unique Physique

June 20th, 2011, 04:37 PM

Good job, you've just called yourself a sicko, hypocrite.
Okay. I don't really understand what you're saying here, seeing as I'm not a child molester/murderer/rapist.

First of all, learn to debate without resorting to pointless attacks like these without reason. Second of all, stop pretending that you either kill or rehabilitate people. It's fucking pathetic.
The point in imprisoning someone is not only to punish, but to rehabilitate them, and with certain heinous crimes the person cannot be realistically rehabilitated and you have to take public safety into account.

How? This won't be possible in a good prison. But they can be released and compensated, when later found to be innocent, unlike with a corpse. I must have said this a dozen times already, but you radical conservatives never seem to be able to comprehend simple concepts.
Define a 'good prison'. Do you know a lot about prisons? Have you been an inmate? Have you worked in one?

I love how you conveniently ignore my point about their guilt being proven beyond reasonable doubt and the fact I support the right to appeal. The fact is, with todays forensic science advancements, there is a very, very low chance of a miscarriage of justice.

Then don't release them. Duh.
No, instead keep them alive in prison for the rest of their lives where they can pose a risk to other inmates or prison staff, or escape and cause more crime. Look at what Ted Bundy did when he managed to escape from custody - he killed a damn child!

So you basically want to murder those who murder to show that murder is wrong? What a load of hypocritical bullshit. How can you claim to be better than murderers when you become the monster you're hunting?
Public safety and justice are my only interests. Do you even know what the legal definition of murder actually is?

Death

June 20th, 2011, 04:47 PM

Okay. I don't really understand what you're saying here, seeing as I'm not a child molester/murderer/rapist.

You are talking about murdering people, which you yourself said made you a "sicko". By murdering murderers, you are becoming that which you condemn, which is where the hypocrisy comes into it. Look at my signiture.

The point in imprisoning someone is not only to punish, but to rehabilitate them, and with certain heinous crimes the person cannot be realistically rehabilitated and you have to take public safety into account.

Because everyone who has killed is psychotic and had no reason the first time and will always do so, right? Wrong. And why do you think prison is for rehabilitation? Why can't someone be imprisoned for life?

Define a 'good prison'. Do you know a lot about prisons? Have you been an inmate? Have you worked in one?

Have you experienced the death penalty or had a family member suffer from it?

I love how you conveniently ignore my point about their guilt being proven beyond reasonable doubt and the fact I support the right to appeal. The fact is, with todays forensic science advancements, there is a very, very low chance of a miscarriage of justice.

Which is already higher than it should be. But what is there to lose from imprisoning a criminal instead of killing them? Because what you're gaining is obvious. Innocents have been and probably will continue to be prosocuted. Why do you think the death penalty has been outlawed in some places? Incidents like the above.

No, instead keep them alive in prison for the rest of their lives where they can pose a risk to other inmates or prison staff, or escape and cause more crime. Look at what Ted Bundy did when he managed to escape from custody - he killed a damn child!

How would a prisoner escape from a properly-maintained prison? If sercuity isn't asleep and they don't leave cell doors wide open, prisoners shouldn't have a way out. I'm talking about real prisons here.

Public safety and justice are my only interests.

Which is strange, because the death penalty ends up with more deaths than imprisonment (and imprisonment actually stops murderers). Can't possibly imagine why.

Do you even know what the legal definition of murder actually is?

Yes. And funnily enough, killing a potential-innocent for the reason of killing (which is exactly what you're doing to them, which is hypocritical) equates to murder in my books.

Unique Physique

June 20th, 2011, 05:15 PM

You are talking about murdering people, which you yourself said made you a "sicko". By murdering murderers, you are becoming that which you condemn, which is where the hypocrisy comes into it. Look at my signiture.
No I'm not talking about "murdering" people, so I'm not a hypocrite in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about the lawful removal (killing, yes) of certain people for the benefit of society.

Because everyone who has killed is psychotic and had no reason the first time and will always do so, right? Wrong. And why do you think prison is for rehabilitation? Why can't someone be imprisoned for life?
Please don't misuse the word 'psychotic' without actually knowing what it actually is. Psychosis is a mental state (often characteristic of certain psychiatric illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia) where a person becomes disconnected with reality and in some cases become delusional and hallucinate. Not all psychotic people are evil murderers, and not all evil murderers are psychotic. People that are mentally impaired when they commit a murder is a different debate for a different day and I'm talking about people who are convicted when proven to be in a sound mind when said crime was committed, as well as fit to stand trial.

And I think prison is for rehabilitation, because, um, it is. It is also for retribution and to keep the public safe from offenders for the duration of their sentence.

Have you experienced the death penalty or had a family member suffer from it?
Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if I have or not, although you know my views on this anyway.

Which is already higher than it should be. But what is there to lose from imprisoning a criminal instead of killing them? Because what you're gaining is obvious. Innocents have been and probably will continue to be prosocuted. Why do you think the death penalty has been outlawed in some places? Incidents like the above.
What have you got to lose? Lets see.. justice, you put safety at risk, all the points I've made before, pretty much. Of course innocent people will be wrongly convicted, no justice system is perfect, but with todays forensic science, procedures, technology, etc. the chance of someone being wrongly executed is significantly low.

By the way, the death penalty may have been abolished in many Western countries, but public support for the death penalty (like in the USA) is quite high. For example, in the United Kingdom:

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2504

How would a prisoner escape from a properly-maintained prison? If sercuity isn't asleep and they don't leave cell doors wide open, prisoners shouldn't have a way out. I'm talking about real prisons here.
As opposed to fake prisons? lol.
I'm sure you're talking about maximum security/catagory A prisons, which, whilst there is a low chance of escape, there is still a chance regardless. Security doesn't have to be 'asleep' for mistakes to be made. For example, some inmates may be locked up for 23 hours a day, but within that 1 hour they are let out to exercise and eat, anything can and sometimes does happen.

Which is strange, because the death penalty ends up with more deaths than imprisonment (and imprisonment actually stops murderers). Can't possibly imagine why.

Yes. And funnily enough, killing a potential-innocent for the reason of killing (which is exactly what you're doing to them, which is hypocritical) equates to murder in my books.
When someone knows they are going to spend the rest of their lives in prison, or at least 30 years (which they should if they're not executed), they will know they have nothing to lose, so they become a danger to other inmates and prison staff, although it's not frequently reported, there are actually a lot of violent crimes committed in prisons, including rape and murder, which is often committed by people already convicted of those crimes.

Now, before you bang on about innocent people being wrongfully convicted again, can I just ask you your opinion on people who have pleaded guilty heinous crimes? For example serial murder or serial rape? So have actually admitted their crimes.. because your argument falls in this case. Many people plead guilty because they hope it will get them a softer sentence from the courts.

Bimmerhead

June 20th, 2011, 08:59 PM

Noob? And who was it who started bullshiting about grammar and doesn't understand the meaning of "contribution"?
Read the last 5 pages of CONTRIBUTION I have made... Soooo yeah. You started on the grammar first pages and pages ago. If I took the time out im sure I could find plenty of examples of bad grammar in your posts. Seriously dude drop it.

Is money the only thing you care about when it comes to moral decisions?
No but im not going to endorse the spending of 20 million dollars a year on idea that our judicial system MAY have screwed up and proven someone guilty when they indeed were not. Increasing the use of the death penalty will kill murders and rapists not slews of innocents that were PROVEN guilty but are innocent. Seriously look at the rest of the problems my country has and tell me the money couldn't be used somewhere else! On people who matter. People who haven't murdered others!

Then why don't you kill yourself next? Because you will be doing exactly the same thing as those you kill. Murdering people, including potential innocents. But then you already knew that; you're just trolling, as per usual.
Potential innocents?? They were proven guilty! THEY ARE GUILTY the book is closed on that!

Oh, and this is implying that all killers are sadistic psychopaths.
They murdered someone! What next? should pay for therapy 5 days a week for them now??? Sure lets do that we can take the money from after school programs right? I mean no one else matters right?

Damn, what a negative attitude.
Look whose calling the kettle black! You drop the F bomb and demean anyone who has a different opinion then you every chance you get. That is how our tiff started in the first place. After my first post you resorted to petty insults.

Aww, what's up? Am I too smart for you?
Ha ha hardly!

TROLOLOLOL. Are you fucking serious? I've made pages of sound arguments adressing people like you and you say I've added nothing? Seriously, grow a fucking brain.
No you have done nothing but insult people this whole time! YOU are the one who started all of this tension just read through the pages you started it!!

Like you are now? Such hypocrisy. Somebody needs anger management I think. Speaking of which, if I'm the joke and you aren't, why have you disabled your rep?
I need anger management! Thats a joke! In every post the word FUCK is used at least 15 times! You really need to look in the mirror dude!

Another typo. Anyway, why the fuck are we going on about grammar? Serously dude, you've made loads more than me. "Its" and "It's" used wrong, "You're" and "Your", and so on. This is hypocrisy taken to its highest level. So unless your grammar is better than mine, then shut the fuck up about it. Never before have I encountered such immaturity. But then that does generally happen when someone's lost. Oh, and your lack of ability to understand me reflects your own intelligence more than it reflects how much I care about my posts being grammatically perfect, just so we're clear.
Then shut the hell up about it! Your the one who keeps bringing it up! SHUT UP and get back on topic! Seriously if you believe to be so much smarter then me, then why do you insist on rambling on and arguing with me every chance you get! Not only in this thread but in PMs too! Grow up dude.

LOL, what the fuck do you think? I've been debating with people on this before you even came. There are pages and pages of my contributions. It might help if you actually looked through them. Oh no but wait, trolls don't bother with that shit, right?
I have looked through them and its pages and pages of you putting people down. You must have serious self confidence issues! Did kids pick on you at school LOL?

No I'm not talking about "murdering" people, so I'm not a hypocrite in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about the lawful removal (killing, yes) of certain people for the benefit of society.

He loves calling people hypocrites. Just look through all of the past threads, he's only here to impose his views and put down anyone who disagrees.

Edit(Thor): Posts merged. Please use the 'Edit' button next time.

TheMatrix

June 20th, 2011, 10:21 PM

Hey n00b! Yes you, "Bimmerhead"!

Try not looking like a n00b yourself by using the "Edit" button!
So much for calling others n00bs - was that you?

Bimmerhead

June 20th, 2011, 10:44 PM

Hey n00b! Yes you, "Bimmerhead"!

Try not looking like a n00b yourself by using the "Edit" button!
So much for calling others n00bs - was that you?

Wow I see you have no reply to my arguments above. Listen as I have said to others unless you can contribute to the topic dont bother posting.

TheMatrix

June 20th, 2011, 11:04 PM

Wow I see you have no reply to my arguments above. Listen as I have said to others unless you can contribute to the topic dont bother posting.
YOU, my friend, are the one who is not contributing by double-posting.
That was your second time that I saw in A SINGLE THREAD.
Some people never learn.....

Bimmerhead

June 20th, 2011, 11:20 PM

YOU, my friend, are the one who is not contributing by double-posting.
That was your second time that I saw in A SINGLE THREAD.
Some people never learn.....

Double posting doesn't have anything to do with contributing to the topic! Why don't you stop talking smack and get back on topic! Seriously some of us actually talk about "The Death Penalty" where as you come onto this thread and troll like a beezy!

TheMatrix

June 20th, 2011, 11:36 PM

Double posting doesn't have anything to do with contributing to the topic!
Actually, it makes you look like a n00b.

Why don't you stop talking smack and get back on topic! Seriously some of us actually talk about "The Death Penalty" where as you come onto this thread and troll like a beezy!
Troll like a what?
Never heard that one before.

ANYWAYS, I agree with Death and All his friends(A Viva La Vida Song!) about all of this discussion. The end.

I now withdraw myself from this [-]debate[/-] flaming contest/n00b bashing affair.

Bimmerhead

June 20th, 2011, 11:45 PM

Actually, it makes you look like a n00b.

Troll like a what?
Never heard that one before.

ANYWAYS, I agree with Death and All his friends(A Viva La Vida Song!) about all of this discussion. The end.

I now withdraw myself from this [-]debate[/-] flaming contest/n00b bashing affair.

Great! Bye then! P.S Beezy is a California term you wouldn't understand lol

foof1

June 21st, 2011, 12:20 AM

There are two reasons why the death penalty is wrong. First is that killing is a sin and NO ONE has the right to take away a persons right to breathe, think, and live. The second is that the execution process is far more expensive for the state than just sticking the person in jail.

RoseyCadaver

June 21st, 2011, 12:23 AM

Can you two(TheMatrix and Bimmerhead) stop arguing and GET BACK ON TOPIC?Thanks.

To be frank this is how I feel,it cost lots of money to find the person guilty or not(and like wait 9 years letting them live in prison for it to be official),costs lots of money to let them live in prison for a couple of decades.So why not let them live?

I think we need to improve our correctional center,and idk make it help correct them??!?!?!Maybe try helping them instead of sticking them in cage(even though some deserve it) and giving them food.

Plus we our prisons would be a lot less empty if pot was legal,and no need for drug cartel,more open spaces.

AJC410

June 21st, 2011, 12:24 AM

I agree with it if someone goes around killing people just cause he feels like it he deserves it let him die.

RoseyCadaver

June 21st, 2011, 12:27 AM

I agree with it if someone goes around killing people just cause he feels like it he deserves it let him die.
Again!"WE KIll PEOPLE WHO KILL PEOPLE TO SHOW KILLING IS WRONG"?!?!?!?!

Quote by Jon

Please tell me why we should be able to judge who lives and doesn't ,we aren't some all knowing creature or God.

Commander Thor

June 21st, 2011, 12:46 AM

TheMatrix, Bimmerhead.
I don't know what's going on between you two, but the argueing and name-calling stops now.
This is a debating forum, not a shit flinging contest.

This is your only warning.

Bimmerhead

June 21st, 2011, 01:09 AM

The bottom line is the Prison system is very flawed and is in need of change. Whether that is the privatization of the prison system, or making the death penalty more easily used. Just for the record I think privatizing is the BEST idea. BUT this thread was on the death penalty, not privatization.

Plus we our prisons would be a lot less empty if pot was legal,and no need for drug cartel,more open spaces.

Im all for legalizing marijuana but the primary income for the drug cartels isnt weed. Its cocaine, heroin and meth. You may see slightly less numbers but not a huge amount. I know in California you cant really get in trouble for anything less then an ounce its really decriminalized here. My friends cousin was caught with over an ounce and received community service and a fat ticket.

Death

June 21st, 2011, 03:26 AM

No I'm not talking about "murdering" people, so I'm not a hypocrite in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about the lawful removal (killing, yes) of certain people for the benefit of society.

So yes, you're talking about murdering. Moving on...

Please don't misuse the word 'psychotic' without actually knowing what it actually is. Psychosis is a mental state (often characteristic of certain psychiatric illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia) where a person becomes disconnected with reality and in some cases become delusional and hallucinate. Not all psychotic people are evil murderers, and not all evil murderers are psychotic. People that are mentally impaired when they commit a murder is a different debate for a different day and I'm talking about people who are convicted when proven to be in a sound mind when said crime was committed, as well as fit to stand trial.

Yes I know what psychosis is thankyou. I simply said that not all killers are psychotic. Simple as that.

And I think prison is for rehabilitation, because, um, it is. It is also for retribution and to keep the public safe from offenders for the duration of their sentence.

Great reason. Unfortunately, your opinion alone probably won't change the prison system here, which does things my way, fortunately for humanity.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if I have or not, although you know my views on this anyway.

Then don't ask me if I've been to a prison. You can't have it both ways.

What have you got to lose? Lets see.. justice, you put safety at risk, all the points I've made before, pretty much. Of course innocent people will be wrongly convicted, no justice system is perfect, but with todays forensic science, procedures, technology, etc. the chance of someone being wrongly executed is significantly low.

What the fuck? Justice isn't being lost at all. Funnily enough, imprisonment protects society, punishes the prisoner, and is not hypocritical; it allows people to be released.

By the way, the death penalty may have been abolished in many Western countries, but public support for the death penalty (like in the USA) is quite high. For example, in the United Kingdom:

When someone knows they are going to spend the rest of their lives in prison, or at least 30 years (which they should if they're not executed), they will know they have nothing to lose, so they become a danger to other inmates and prison staff, although it's not frequently reported, there are actually a lot of violent crimes committed in prisons, including rape and murder, which is often committed by people already convicted of those crimes.

Then bung all the murderers in with each other and allow them to beat the shit out of each other for all I care. You don't actually care about them, do you? But so long as they can live to be released if they are innocent.

Now, before you bang on about innocent people being wrongfully convicted again, can I just ask you your opinion on people who have pleaded guilty heinous crimes? For example serial murder or serial rape? So have actually admitted their crimes.. because your argument falls in this case. Many people plead guilty because they hope it will get them a softer sentence from the courts.

But that's it, right? People will plead guilty even when they're not.

Read the last 5 pages of CONTRIBUTION I have made... Soooo yeah. You started on the grammar first pages and pages ago. If I took the time out im sure I could find plenty of examples of bad grammar in your posts. Seriously dude drop it.

I made more than 5. And what you said was a reiteration of the same shit I beat down. So shut up, especially about grammar which I'm not going to discuss with you.

No but im not going to endorse the spending of 20 million dollars a year on idea that our judicial system MAY have screwed up and proven someone guilty when they indeed were not.

Because you value money more than lives and liberty, which doesn't suprise me with someone with a personality such as yours.

Increasing the use of the death penalty will kill murders and rapists not slews of innocents that were PROVEN guilty but are innocent. Seriously look at the rest of the problems my country has and tell me the money couldn't be used somewhere else! On people who matter. People who haven't murdered others!

So you become the monster? You still haven't explained how imprisonment isn't a punishment. But explaining is something that trolls (i.e. people who complain about grammar even though theirs is worse) aren't good at.

Potential innocents?? They were proven guilty! THEY ARE GUILTY the book is closed on that!

You have shown a complete disregard for all those who were wrongly convicted and killed. You are disgusting. I can't even believe I'm dignifying you with a repsonse.

They murdered someone! What next? should pay for therapy 5 days a week for them now??? Sure lets do that we can take the money from after school programs right? I mean no one else matters right?

No, because the death penalty is more expensive. How many fucking times do you need to be told before it sinks in? You see, this is my issue with you. You keep regurgitating the same opinions over andd over no matter how many times we shoot them down.

Look whose calling the kettle black! You drop the F bomb and demean anyone who has a different opinion then you every chance you get. That is how our tiff started in the first place. After my first post you resorted to petty insults.

No, I've held plenty of arguments with people before without resorting to bashing. you just haven't seen them. I don't care that you disagree with me, I'm annoyed that you both assume to know me whcih you don't, and you can't accept that you've lost.

No you have done nothing but insult people this whole time! YOU are the one who started all of this tension just read through the pages you started it!!

And you are adding to it. But it's obvious you won't see the truth, even though it's been handed to you. If you aren't mature enough to understand that I have made more contributions in this thread than anyone else, then there's little point in me talking to you, since it's going to be through one ear and out the other. You realise I've got 5 +reps for all my contributions in this thread, right? That's twice than any I've got in any other thread, and equates to about a fifth of my reputation - and doesn't come from pissing around with insults. I'm not a troll. And the sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll cease to be one.

I need anger management! Thats a joke! In every post the word FUCK is used at least 15 times! You really need to look in the mirror dude!

Swearing is allowed on this forum. Read the rules. If language bothers you that much, you need help. CUNT! Oh look, I threw in arguably the strongest swear word in the English language? So what now? You're gonna cry?

Then shut the hell up about it! Your the one who keeps bringing it up! SHUT UP and get back on topic! Seriously if you believe to be so much smarter then me, then why do you insist on rambling on and arguing with me every chance you get! Not only in this thread but in PMs too! Grow up dude.

Because you started it. I was simply giving my opinions and you call me a joke. If you don't want a shitstorm, don't throw shit. Simple as that. You started it, and I decided I wasn't going to put up with it.

I have looked through them and its pages and pages of you putting people down. You must have serious self confidence issues! Did kids pick on you at school LOL?

You're not looking far enough. That or you are way too sensitive.

He loves calling people hypocrites. Just look through all of the past threads, he's only here to impose his views and put down anyone who disagrees.

Then why are you bashing me for disagreeing? You wouldn't have an issue with me if I were all for murdering potential innocents.

TheMatrix, Bimmerhead.
I don't know what's going on between you two, but the argueing and name-calling stops now.
This is a debating forum, not a shit flinging contest.

This is your only warning.

Shit, I've literally just seen this.

embers

June 21st, 2011, 06:11 AM

Read the last 5 pages of CONTRIBUTION I have made... Soooo yeah.

Still less than what he's done.

Potential innocents?? They were proven guilty! THEY ARE GUILTY the book is closed on that!

Um, no. Unless you want to take away the right to appeal, which is fucking stupid. Have you forgotten the 4 people a year who have been saved from being murdered by the state by appealing?

They murdered someone! What next? should pay for therapy 5 days a week for them now??? Sure lets do that we can take the money from after school programs right? I mean no one else matters right?

See, this is what I hate about people who support the death penalty. They magically assume that every murderer in prison is a cold-blooded killer who regrets nothing, feels no pain and shows no mercy. That certainly isn't the case, and it's stupid to think that it is.

I have looked through them and its pages and pages of you putting people down.

You clearly haven't, then. It's pages and pages of him and others in a debate with the user 'uchimata'. Just because he may 'drop the F bomb' doesn't mean his point is invalid. Jesus, you sound like a friend of mine. Also, Bimmerhead, I'd like it if you responded to my other reply anytime soon.

Basically, if you'd have been reading this thread, you will have seen uchimata's posts - much more elaborate than yours, to be honest. They were shot down by a few members. You would have also seen some good points raised:

How do you pay for this, you ask? We end the War on Drugs and stop putting innocent Americans in prison for nothing.

Implying you have to kill someone to be put on death row
Implying the family of the person that's on death row isn't suffering either
Implying death row isn't as expensive
Implying everyone that's been executed on death row wasn't innocent

Taken from antideathpenalty (http://www.antideathpenalty.org/) - "$2 million per person vs. $500,000 (4x as much!). Free counsel for defense, for appeals, maximum security on a separate death row wing."

Taken from deathpenalty.org (http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42) - "The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases."

There's tons of people that have been executed later being found out to have never committed the crime in the first place. Do you know how fucking sick that is?

Did you know lying under oath and drug trafficking can lead to death penalty too?

How about this story on Earl Washington here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Washington).