Religion in all of the VT forums

[DerBear]

Well lately I have been reading a lot of post that have religion in them

e.g. today i was on the forum for people who are deppresed

and this girl said she wanted to kill herself (there was a lot more to it than that but that was what people were highlighting)

Any way I read some replies and I saw things like "you should not kill yourself God has given you this life"

and I find that the forum stated that she was not religious and that could offend if someone if they were not a person who believes in god so maybe if the post has something to do with religion then yes religion should be inputted but otherwise maybe it should be left out

But any way this is just my opinion.. i think we should try and leave religion out of the forums unless stated if you know what i mean as it could offend

p.s I know I am preparing myself to be shot down here but this is my opinion I would be happy to hear all your opinions on this

[Iceman]

Opinion on what exactly?

[trooneh]

I think it's his opinion on when religion should be discussed or brought up on the VT forums.

[Iceman]

I think it's his opinion on when religion should be discussed or brought up on the VT forums.

Oh, if that's the case I don't see why not. It's someone's opinion so I would respect it.

[deadpie]

I agree that we should leave religion out of the subject when in other boards and people ask for help, especially when people specifically say they don't want to hear about that. Really, it's kind of annoying when someone says something like "God loves you, don't hurt yourself" imo. I'm asking for help that will actually work, not some stupid ass word from a person I don't believe in and not everyone believes in 'God', so I don't see why people feel the need to push their God as a way of helping others. Help people on this site by actually giving advice. Preaching is not advice. The "word of God" is not advice. Saying how someone can actually deal with the situation they're in is what I call advice. This should be obvious.

Also, the last thing some people want to hear is that 'God' is the answer to their problems and all that shit. Really when I hear stuff like that it makes me want to kill myself more.

[Origami]

I agree with Tim on one point. That is, "when people specifically say they don't want to hear about that." If it is literally, in black and white text, asked of you not to bring religion into the discussion, then don't. Why? As previously stated, the religious views could be offensive to the OP, but on top of that it shows disrespect. Either A- you just didn't give a fuck about their request, or B- you're just seeking post count and didn't thoroughly read their post.
All the same, even being of a religious background, I find "God loves you" to be very poor advise. Yes, it might help to some degree, but it's not going to utterly cure a problem. Why? I don't have the personal resolve to back myself through something with meager words. I need some tangible habit or alternate source to break habits, urges, and other issues. I think I'm rambling now, so I'm stopping.

End transmission.

[Craig1995]

I dont see why people would be offended by the metion of god. But obviously if it's been stated to be left out or it's inappropriate to
Mention such things then it should be left out.

[Death]

People are offended because if they wanted to be preached at, they would have gone to church. If an invisible being in the sky can solve all our problems, then why do posts asking for help like this even exist?

[DerBear]

People are offended because if they wanted to be preached at, they would have gone to church. If an invisible being in the sky can solve all our problems, then why do posts asking for help like this even exist?

i would have to agree

[Severus Snape]

lol separation of church and forum? I wish it would be so but that will never happen. Religion defines an individual's core values and at the stage of development most of VT is at, they are simply mouth pieces spouting their parent's beliefs with some notable exceptions. Late adolescence is usually the time when people start to think on their own and become less religious as a whole, while most young adolescents use it as a way to define themselves as individuals and incorporate it into their self image and persona.

[lightkun]

I personally don't see the issue. I mean, I believe in God, so for another example I guess, say I was asking for advice and someone posted something that had to do with a different god, then oh well. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over someone's opinion. If you throw a question out there, you should expect an opinion that you don't nessessarly agree with. And that's ok. But I ask all of you on VT, if someones opinion/belief is different than yours, don't just ignore it; they might have something worth listening to.

So I guess your asking on weather religion should be left out posts. I say that no matter what people post in reply to your question, it's still going to happen and people are going to exorcise their freedoms.

So my answer is no, because I don't see the reason to get offended over that. But if someone asks for it to be left out of the responses, then I would respect that for them.

lol separation of church and forum? I wish it would be so but that will never happen. Religion defines an individual's core values and at the stage of development most of VT is at, they are simply mouth pieces spouting their parent's beliefs with some notable exceptions. Late adolescence is usually the time when people start to think on their own and become less religious as a whole, while most young adolescents use it as a way to define themselves as individuals and incorporate it into their self image and persona.

I hate it when people believe in something blindly! It's just dumb because they are letting someone else do their thinking.

[Fruit_Tart.]

I agree that we should leave religion out of the subject when in other boards and people ask for help, especially when people specifically say they don't want to hear about that. Really, it's kind of annoying when someone says something like "God loves you, don't hurt yourself" imo. I'm asking for help that will actually work, not some stupid ass word from a person I don't believe in and not everyone believes in 'God', so I don't see why people feel the need to push their God as a way of helping others. Help people on this site by actually giving advice. Preaching is not advice. The "word of God" is not advice. Saying how someone can actually deal with the situation they're in is what I call advice. This should be obvious.

Also, the last thing some people want to hear is that 'God' is the answer to their problems and all that shit. Really when I hear stuff like that it makes me want to kill myself more.
I agree.
Very idiotic for people to be pointing their answers to a figure not proven to be real. If 'God' has the answers, then why hasn't he given answers people request? Why is there still problems in the World/
People are offended because if they wanted to be preached at, they would have gone to church. If an invisible being in the sky can solve all our problems, then why do posts asking for help like this even exist?
Who's to say that everyone believes in a being that is powerful enough to solve everything? Only complete idiots would believe everyone is alike.
I would be also offended if somebody told me, "Go to church because that's where the answers are." I've been told that, done it, and look now; my problems still aren't answered. That's why I don't have much faith anymore in anything or anyone. All I have now are facts to rely on.

[Death]

I personally don't see the issue.

Would you see the issue if everyone kept telling you that yor god was imaginery whenever you ask for help? Or don't you give a shit about the many atheists in this world?

I mean, I believe in God, so for another example I guess, say I was asking for advice and someone posted something that had to do with a different god, then oh well. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over someone's opinion.

But the OP requested that religion was kept out of it. And if you are asking for proper help, where does religion come into it? People who start bringing religion into a help thread are trolls seeking to start an argument where an argument does not belong.

If you throw a question out there, you should expect an opinion that you don't nessessarly agree with.

Of course you can, but I think you're missing the point. That does not excuse bringing religion into a thread where the thread asks for both help and for religion not to be brought in. Telling people that they need to trust in god is both not helping and going against the OP's request.

So I guess your asking on weather religion should be left out posts.

All we're saying is that it should not be brought up where is both doesn't belong and where it has been requested to not be brought up. Simple.

I hate it when people believe in something blindly! It's just dumb because they are letting someone else do their thinking.

LOL, why are you saying this?

BTW, seeing that you have no issue with enforcing your views where they don't belong, then here you go:

Your religion is wrong. You have been living in a delusion your whole life. All the time you've spent worshipping your sky-daddy has been wasted. Problem, lightkun?

Who's to say that everyone believes in a being that is powerful enough to solve everything? Only complete idiots would believe everyone is alike. I would be also offended if somebody told me, "Go to church because that's where the answers are."

Not me, that's for sure. This is exactly why I made my point that if someone asks for help and asks that religion to not be brought up, posting to say that God will solve all their problems is anything but helping.

I've been told that, done it, and look now; my problems still aren't answered. That's why I don't have much faith anymore in anything or anyone. All I have now are facts to rely on.

I think most of us have, which is why I can't help but agree.

[Severus Snape]

I hate it when people believe in something blindly! It's just dumb because they are letting someone else do their thinking.

That's all religious belief is.

[lightkun]

Would you see the issue if everyone kept telling you that yor god was imaginery whenever you ask for help? Or don't you give a shit about the many atheists in this world?

I really don't care is someone doesn't believe in what I do. I can go out of my way to force my belief on people who don't want to hear it (I thought the OP was just talking about keeping religion out in general, not that if someone asked to keep it out)



But the OP requested that religion was kept out of it. And if you are asking for proper help, where does religion come into it? People who start bringing religion into a help thread are trolls seeking to start an argument where an argument does not belong.
Yes they are, unless the OP doesnt care. If the OP didn't say anything about it, then you should be free to share your opinion.


Of course you can, but I think you're missing the point. That does not excuse bringing religion into a thread where the thread asks for both help and for religion not to be brought in. Telling people that they need to trust in god is both not helping and going against the OP's request.
I wasn't reading carefully. I just assumed that he meant in general. Totally, if someone asks, then don't.


LOL, why are you saying this?
What? I can't believe in a god and dislike blind belief in him? Weather you are atheist, Christian, or Buddhist, believing in something blindly is dumb.


BTW, seeing that you have no issue with enforcing your views where they don't belong, then here you go:

Your religion is wrong. You have been living in a delusion your whole life. All the time you've spent worshipping your sky-daddy has been wasted. Problem, lightkun?
Where they don't belong? That's only if someone asked not to have religion in the response. And no, I don't have a problem with what you said. I may not agree with it but I'm not upset that you have a different opinion.

That's all religious belief is.

Not necessarily. If your smart, you think about it and question your god. I do anyway. I hate blind belief. Like when kids just say what their parents say. Both my parents have rejected God and think I'm crazy for believing on one. Lol but they can deal.

~Please use the edit button instead of double posting :)

[Severus Snape]

Not necessarily. If your smart, you think about it and question your god. I do anyway. I hate blind belief. Like when kids just say what their parents say. Both my parents have rejected God and think I'm crazy for believing on one. Lol but they can deal.

~Please use the edit button instead of double posting :)

Fact: the more educated the person, the less likely that person is to be religious.

[embers]

Fact: the more educated the person, the less likely that person is to be religious.

Whut? Tell that to Muslim scientists and etc that made incredible contributions to what we are today. It's just shit-yourself stupid to assume that religious people are less educated and/or stupid.

[Death]

Whut? Tell that to Muslim scientists and etc that made incredible contributions to what we are today. It's just shit-yourself stupid to assume that religious people are less educated and/or stupid.

I think he was referring to statistics as opposed to throwing in a blind opinion. Myself, I think it would depend on the education.

I really don't care is someone doesn't believe in what I do. I can go out of my way to force my belief on people who don't want to hear it

Why would you want to do this?

(I thought the OP was just talking about keeping religion out in general, not that if someone asked to keep it out)

I had an idea that this was the case. Seeing that it is, what would you say about people continuing to express religious opinions where they have been asked not to be expressed?

What? I can't believe in a god and dislike blind belief in him? Weather you are atheist, Christian, or Buddhist, believing in something blindly is dumb.

If you really think it's stupid, why the hell do you believe in something without any evidence? You wouldn't believe it if someone said that there's a flying spaghetti monster flying around the moon, so why would you view believing in a god without any evidence stupid?

Where they don't belong? That's only if someone asked not to have religion in the response. And no, I don't have a problem with what you said. I may not agree with it but I'm not upset that you have a different opinion.

So you think that people should continue preaching religion on the unwilling in a thread asking for help even when they ask for religion not to be brought up in it?

BTW, to whomever negrepped me (with 14 rep power) calling me narrow-minded, good job with being hypocritical. I don't remember attacking any groups in this thread, let alone religion. Fanatical atheism is arguably just as bad.

[embers]

From the way lightkun is trying to phrase things I get the impression you two have completely misinterpreted each other's posts.

[lightkun]

From the way lightkun is trying to phrase things I get the impression you two have completely misinterpreted each other's posts.

Yes, when death quotes me, he keeps forgetting to read the part when I say: it should be left out if the OP asks it to be. My opinion in a nutshell is basically, if the OP does not say anything about excluding religious views, then it's ok add them to your response. But if he/she specifically asks for it to be left out, then I would respect them and just give them a response without God in it or any kind of religion.

[Death]

Yes, when death quotes me, he keeps forgetting to read the part when I say: it should be left out if the OP asks it to be. My opinion in a nutshell is basically, if the OP does not say anything about excluding religious views, then it's ok add them to your response. But if he/she specifically asks for it to be left out, then I would respect them and just give them a response without God in it or any kind of religion.

I didn't ignore any part. You haven't really clarified until now. That being the case, I can respect your opinion. I do not agree with it, but I respect it.

[deadpie]

But I ask all of you on VT, if someones opinion/belief is different than yours, don't just ignore it; they might have something worth listening to.

Every time I have people come to me and say they've got good news to tell, I just think to myself in my head, "I really hope this so called good news isn't about Jesus." Then of course, it's about how I need to let Jesus in and then everything will be alright.

What is there to listen to in that shit? When people just say, "God loves you, don't kill yourself", I don't see what is worth listening to in that. Is it really that thought provoking or happy? Oh that's right, I should just somehow magically be happy all of a sudden and not take my life because this being that I don't know if it exists loves me and if I take my life or not believe and God, then I'll have to swim in a lake of fire.

So I guess your asking on weather religion should be left out posts. I say that no matter what people post in reply to your question, it's still going to happen and people are going to exorcise their freedoms.

Sure, they can go ahead and do it, but that doesn't mean that they're complete douchebags for purposely saying something that the OP said for people not to post. It's just rude. Picture someone saying, "I need help, but don't tell me the answer is God" and the only responses are a bunch of people throwing bibles saying, "Read this book! It will save you!"

So my answer is no, because I don't see the reason to get offended over that. But if someone asks for it to be left out of the responses, then I would respect that for them.

Religion can be a trigger to some people. What an interesting thought to think about, huh? Now do you wonder why such a thing can be triggering and offend/bother people?

Well, how about strict religious families forcing a teenager to be someone they aren't or don't want to be. Maybe an abusive religious family too. Then there's the ones that say, "You don't believe in God? Get out of my house!" Oh, then there's teenagers who are gay/lesbian/bi/transgender and their parents hate the shit out of them saying God hates them. Now let's just take it to the extra mile and hit what I really wanted to hit: sexual abuse from priests. It happens. I'm not saying it happens to everyone that talks to a Priest one on one, but this stuff does happen. My hometown just had another Priest arrested because he was trying to cure homosexuality from teenagers by ejaculating in them.

Religion is a huge trigger to people. It can be from little to large things.

I hate it when people believe in something blindly! It's just dumb because they are letting someone else do their thinking.

Isn't what you're saying hypocrisy now? Then again I won't beat you up for that one sense everyone is hypocritical in some way.

I really don't care is someone doesn't believe in what I do. I can go out of my way to force my belief on people who don't want to hear it (I thought the OP was just talking about keeping religion out in general, not that if someone asked to keep it out)

Yeah, but the thing is not many people care and it's completely rude. If someone says they won't help but don't want to be preached to, then be a nice person and don't preach to them. It's a simple sign of respect!

What I'm saying is that the God advice isn't much of advice nor is it helpful. It's just throwing your two cents into the hat as your way of giving a shit, when those two cents really mean nothing at all. People don't want to hear advice they've already heard a hundred times.

[georgiamay]

I find that the forum stated that she was not religious and that could offend if someone if they were not a person who believes in god so maybe if the post has something to do with religion then yes religion should be inputted but otherwise maybe it should be left out


It could offend them?

Ok, first of all, I agree that religion should be left out of it, particularly in the psych ward and places where people are asking for help and advice, unless they're having a crisis of faith or some religious dilemma. But it should be left out for the most part.

Now I go back to what I was saying about "offending" someone. Some people are just too sensitive when it comes to things like this, how people can actually be offended by people mentioning God is rediculous. Sure, I can see why people would get frustrated, but to get offended? I've sat through church services where I've become frustrated, as I was the only atheist there, and I didn't believe what was being said, but to get offended by that is just stupid.

Religion can be a trigger, yes, and if it's used in a way like "God hates you for that" or something along those lines, then sure, that's not acceptable, and I can see why some people would see it as triggering. But just simply saying "God loves you" isn't such a big deal to an atheist or someone that doesn't believe in God. If they don't believe in this God, then why would they give a shit that God was even mentioned?

Most of my family are catholics, and I've heard them all talking about God and had to sit through church services when I'm an atheist, and I've never found anything offensive at all.

I agree that religion shouldn't be brought up if it's possible, but if someone is religious, I don't see why they shouldn't try and help people through a hard time with their believes, because they think they're doing the right thing. And if the other person isn't religious, why would it offend them?

[embers]

What I'm saying is that the God advice isn't much of advice nor is it helpful. It's just throwing your two cents into the hat as your way of giving a shit, when those two cents really mean nothing at all. People don't want to hear advice they've already heard a hundred times.

That point kinda backfires on itself in the sense that there's hardly a thread in the psych ward that ISN'T covered in replies of 'it'll be okay hun, *hugs*'. How's that any different from 'God loves you, hun'? Both are completely vague, unhelpful and exist to clutter up threads.

[Severus Snape]

Whut? Tell that to Muslim scientists and etc that made incredible contributions to what we are today. It's just shit-yourself stupid to assume that religious people are less educated and/or stupid.

Well then get ready to shit yourself, stupid. Its pretty much an established fact that there is a tendency for degree holding individuals to be significantly less religious than the general population. And do yourself a favor, try not to embarrass yourself by taking the argument that once upon a time back in the middle ages religious scientists did great things blah blah blah. I will systematically and energetically destroy any argument you will make in that vein. Be a little less militant about defending a religious belief blindly before you even look at the facts, because it makes you look ignorant.

Here are two articles from each side of the debate agreeing on that point.

http://www.humanreligions.info/intelligence.html

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/latter-day-saint-social-life-social-research-lds-church-and-its-members/9-secularization-hi

[Sage]

Well then get ready to shit yourself, stupid. Its pretty much an established fact that there is a tendency for degree holding individuals to be significantly less religious than the general population. And do yourself a favor, try not to embarrass yourself by taking the argument that once upon a time back in the middle ages religious scientists did great things blah blah blah. I will systematically and energetically destroy any argument you will make in that vein. Be a little less militant about defending a religious belief blindly before you even look at the facts, because it makes you look ignorant.

Here are two articles from each side of the debate agreeing on that point.

http://www.humanreligions.info/intelligence.html

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/latter-day-saint-social-life-social-research-lds-church-and-its-members/9-secularization-hi

tl;dr: The number of educated religious people in ages past is not relevant in the modern day statistic mentioned.

[deadpie]

That point kinda backfires on itself in the sense that there's hardly a thread in the psych ward that ISN'T covered in replies of 'it'll be okay hun, *hugs*'. How's that any different from 'God loves you, hun'? Both are completely vague, unhelpful and exist to clutter up threads.

I don't see how that backfires my point though. Sure, like you said they're both pretty unhelpful and just horrible advice, although I'd rather have a fake ass virtual hug with someone telling me it's okay over someone telling me the reason I shouldn't blow my brains out is because God loves me.

[dmeek7]

I agree with the very first statement. I think that God and other religious statements should not be mentioned unless the person who created the thread has mentioned it or you know for sure that the person who is asking for help, believes in Him.

[Death]

It could offend them?

...

Most of my family are catholics, and I've heard them all talking about God and had to sit through church services when I'm an atheist, and I've never found anything offensive at all.

I agree that religion shouldn't be brought up if it's possible, but if someone is religious, I don't see why they shouldn't try and help people through a hard time with their believes, because they think they're doing the right thing. And if the other person isn't religious, why would it offend them?

I can see why this could offend someone. If you read the bible's old testament, God is portrayed as just about the worst being which could possibly exist. A vindictive bigot who commits genocide over and over. To then hear many people blurting out "God loves you!" over an over as if the entirety of the world's population believes exactly the same as them (yeah right), especially if you are an atheist or gay or anything else which God hated, might just be offensive to some people. I'm not saying this is exactly how I personally feel, but I can see where offense can arise.

[lightkun]

I had an idea that this was the case. Seeing that it is, what would you say about people continuing to express religious opinions where they have been asked not to be expressed?

"and I find that the forum stated that she was not religious and that could offend if someone if they were not a person who believes in god so maybe if the post has something to do with religion then yes religion should be inputted but otherwise maybe it should be left out"

This quote from the OP gives me the impression that he thinks that religion should be left out even if it was not asked to be. All i mean is that it shouldn't have to be if the OP didn't request it to be.


If you really think it's stupid, why the hell do you believe in something without any evidence? You wouldn't believe it if someone said that there's a flying spaghetti monster flying around the moon, so why would you view believing in a god without any evidence stupid?
Don't turn this into a debate about who's belief is right. And if you could say that I believe in my God blindly, I could say the same about what you believe (I am under the impression you are atheist) because yes, there is no tangible evidence that my God exists, but also there is no evidence that he doesn't.
And as for "blind belief" as I said earlier, I was refering to how kids (and adults sometimes) believe in something because people around them do.


So you think that people should continue preaching religion on the unwilling in a thread asking for help even when they ask for religion not to be brought up in it?
I wouldn't call it preaching if I where to say to someone "According to the (whatever religion) faith, you shouldn't tel lies"
It's like calling it advertising when I say "Man I really think you should get a pepsi. They are really good"

I didn't ignore any part. You haven't really clarified until now. That being the case, I can respect your opinion. I do not agree with it, but I respect it.

Well it's nice to discuss my opinions with someone who won't attack me for it being different. :yes: I respect your as well.

Sure, they can go ahead and do it, but that doesn't mean that they're complete douchebags for purposely saying something that the OP said for people not to post. It's just rude. Picture someone saying, "I need help, but don't tell me the answer is God" and the only responses are a bunch of people throwing bibles saying, "Read this book! It will save you!"

Haha. I meant to say "I can't go out of my way"
I posted that on my phone and it must have autocorrected.:eek:
Now people must thing im some evangelic freak shoving that bible down someone's throat.

[QUOTE=deadpie;1236595]
Isn't what you're saying hypocrisy now? Then again I won't beat you up for that one sense everyone is hypocritical in some way.


Not really. I don't believe in my God because other people around me do, I believe in him because I choose to. I came to my God through what I considered signs. Then I started learning about Him and it made sense to me. For some, my faith is logical. For others, not so much.

Please do not send more than one post in a row (double/triple etc posting), there is an edit button for a reason.

[User Deleted]

This is just me, if someone dosent like a post on religion, why get offended, just ignore it. I do not think we need another way to get in trouble.

[Death]

"and I find that the forum stated that she was not religious and that could offend if someone if they were not a person who believes in god so maybe if the post has something to do with religion then yes religion should be inputted but otherwise maybe it should be left out"

This quote from the OP gives me the impression that he thinks that religion should be left out even if it was not asked to be. All i mean is that it shouldn't have to be if the OP didn't request it to be.

In that case, I can understand bringing religion up. I wouldn't personally view it as helpful, but we all have or own views I guess.

Don't turn this into a debate about who's belief is right.

Just remember, this is RotW, and place to debate.

And if you could say that I believe in my God blindly, I could say the same about what you believe (I am under the impression you are atheist) because yes, there is no tangible evidence that my God exists, but also there is no evidence that he doesn't.

Look at my signiture image. See that? It's the flying spaghetti monster. According to your logic, we have to accept the possibility of him existing because there's no proof that he doesn't. Coming to think of it, we have to accept that if everyone on the Earth jumped at precisely the same time, the universe would end, because you cannot disprove it.

I'm sorry, but the burden of proof lies on you. If you make a claim, you have to prove it to be right before expecting others to have to disprove it, otherwise you could say all sorts of wild things are true and expect people to accept the possibility of it being true just because it's given in such a way that it cannot be disproved. So, I'm afraid that in a proper debate, people have to prove why things are true before any disproving can be done. Besides, what does this argument say about its creditibality? You could say what you said about anything.

I wouldn't call it preaching if I where to say to someone "According to the (whatever religion) faith, you shouldn't tel lies"

Maybe not, but some people go a lot further than that and speak as if they are telling the truth. This is especially so if religion was asked to be ignored.

[jason_smitty]

whether to mention religion should be first based on the OP situation and indicated beliefs, sometimes it might be appropriate, sometimes its might not be, if no beliefs are mentioned then it is not

[DerBear]

nice replies and i still feel the same way as i did i mean hearing god loves you when you have not even mentioned religion is annoying and can offend in some ways

[Genghis Khan]

And do yourself a favor, try not to embarrass yourself by taking the argument that once upon a time back in the middle ages religious scientists did great things blah blah blah.

In the Middle Ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages)?

1. Werner Heisenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg)

2. Erwin Schrödinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger)

3. Dr Abdus Salam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Abdus_Salam)

4.Robert Millikan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Millikan)

5. William Phillips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Daniel_Phillips)

I will systematically and energetically destroy any argument you will make in that vein. Be a little less militant about defending a religious belief blindly before you even look at the facts, because it makes you look ignorant.

In the same way you should probably be a little less militant about defending Atheism blindly by posting things like you're more likely to be intelligent if you don't have religion and then pulling out an article that does all the arguing for you.

[embers]

In the Middle Ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages)?

1. Werner Heisenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg)

2. Erwin Schrödinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger)

3. Dr Abdus Salam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Abdus_Salam)

4.Robert Millikan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Millikan)

5. William Phillips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Daniel_Phillips)

He wasn't saying there have not been any good religious scientists, he's saying I shouldn't bring history into an argument that relies on modern statistics. Which is right, I suppose.

But he must have been having a bad day, because from just about every other post of mine in this section you can tell that I'm not religious.

[DerBear]

This is becomming more of a debate on religous sicentists and not on topic

[Death]

This is becomming more of a debate on religous sicentists and not on topic

But these debates are fun.

[Iris]

I'll make it go back on topic:

If someone ever said that God loves me I would get extremely offended. Because I'm one of the many living under an extremely oppressive religion that I don't believe in and it has completely destroyed my life. I'm not being dramatic-I have depression and I self harm mainly because of the double life I'm forced to lead (so that I don't get kicked out of my religious school), the ridiculous and all-encompassing religious laws I have to follow. It's taken a huge toll on me and I will never be fully ok because of it. So if I was posting a thread about how I want to die and someone says "don't because god loves" I'd literally be 20 times more likely to kill myself. If someone mentions that they don't believe in god then of course you shouldn't mention god. You don't know what kind of experiences that person might have suffered through as they weren't believing. the world is not a friendly place to people who don't believe in religion or god (though, admittedly, it's slowly but surely getting better), but I think that even the people who don't mention their belief/disbelief of god in their thread shouldn't get the "god loves you." Who knows what experiences they've been through with god. It's a very touchy subject. If you really want to comfort someone just say "I'm here for you" or whatever. Mentioning god could possibly make the situation worse.

[Death]

I'll make it go back on topic:

If someone ever said that God loves me I would get extremely offended. Because I'm one of the many living under an extremely oppressive religion that I don't believe in and it has completely destroyed my life. I'm not being dramatic-I have depression and I self harm mainly because of the double life I'm forced to lead (so that I don't get kicked out of my religious school), the ridiculous and all-encompassing religious laws I have to follow.

If you don't mind me asking, how has or can religion destroy your life? Okay, so I get that evangelists who can't leave people alone can be excessively annoying, but what does religion do to you or make you do that is powerful enough to actually "destroy" your life? I'm don't personally approve of religion, but even I wouldn't have thought it to be that bad.

It's taken a huge toll on me and I will never be fully ok because of it. So if I was posting a thread about how I want to die and someone says "don't because god loves" I'd literally be 20 times more likely to kill myself.

Over what some random person says over the internet whose opinions probably aren't worth much anyway because they can't think of something better to say than "because God..."? I wouldn't let that get to me personally.

If someone mentions that they don't believe in god then of course you shouldn't mention god. You don't know what kind of experiences that person might have suffered through as they weren't believing. the world is not a friendly place to people who don't believe in religion or god (though, admittedly, it's slowly but surely getting better), but I think that even the people who don't mention their belief/disbelief of god in their thread shouldn't get the "god loves you." Who knows what experiences they've been through with god. It's a very touchy subject. If you really want to comfort someone just say "I'm here for you" or whatever. Mentioning god could possibly make the situation worse.

To be honest, I agree. But sometimes, religion is all some people know and they either can't or won't think outside their personal bubble. I'm not sure I'd call it definitively offensive as such, but maybe just a bit ignorant.

[Dog Desab]

My hometown just had another Priest arrested because he was trying to cure homosexuality from teenagers by ejaculating in them.
what the fuck is this priests thought process by doing this? Does he think that because he is a priest that he is given some sort of divine immunity from being a sick fuck? That he holds in his own flesh and blood the cure to all things heathen-like?

[Iris]

If you don't mind me asking, how has or can religion destroy your life? Okay, so I get that evangelists who can't leave people alone can be excessively annoying, but what does religion do to you or make you do that is powerful enough to actually "destroy" your life? I'm don't personally approve of religion, but even I wouldn't have thought it to be that bad.

I live in an ultra-orthodox Jewish community. The only religious sects that are more strict are some mormons and islamic extremist. When religion controls every move you make, every word you say and every thought that comes into your mind, leaving that religion without emotional scars is literally impossible. There are rules on EVERYTHING. You're also not allowed to have your opinion or disagree with anything a rabbi or religious leader from before the torah was even given over, or else your a heretic ('apikores' in hebrew. it's a very very derogatory word). I hate religion because it destroyed my family (I really don't want to get into that on a public forum) but I still have to act like I love it every second that I'm around people. That means praying twice a day, saying a little prayer before and after I eat or drink anything, having to wear ridiculous clothes (long skirts, shirts that cover the collarbone and more), listening to class (I have 9 religious subjects) and having to act like what I'm learning is changing my life. It is very very hard to do this when you despise religion as much as I do. My psychologist said that every day that I live like this is traumatizing me. Plus I get shunned by my neighbors and some friends because I've been labeled as a rebel because I wear peace sign necklaces, skirts that don't cover my knees, bright colored shirts etc. It's very psychologically damaging.

Over what some random person says over the internet whose opinions probably aren't worth much anyway because they can't think of something better to say than "because God..."? I wouldn't let that get to me personally.

I don't think of "because god loves you" the same way that most do. It's a reminder of how my life is a mess. It's such a huge deal in my life that small things like that have a really big impact. I've been on the inside of ultra religious life (and trust me, no Non-Jew will ever know much about communities like mine) so religion isn't just a little annoyance for me. It's my personal little hell. So yeah, I'd take it badly. And though most people wouldn't get as upset as me because most people didn't have my experiences, it would have an impact (in my opinion) even if on a smaller scale.

[Death]

I live in an ultra-orthodox Jewish community. The only religious sects that are more strict are some mormons and islamic extremist. When religion controls every move you make, every word you say and every thought that comes into your mind, leaving that religion without emotional scars is literally impossible. There are rules on EVERYTHING. You're also not allowed to have your opinion or disagree with anything a rabbi or religious leader from before the torah was even given over, or else your a heretic ('apikores' in hebrew. it's a very very derogatory word). I hate religion because it destroyed my family (I really don't want to get into that on a public forum) but I still have to act like I love it every second that I'm around people. That means praying twice a day, saying a little prayer before and after I eat or drink anything, having to wear ridiculous clothes (long skirts, shirts that cover the collarbone and more), listening to class (I have 9 religious subjects) and having to act like what I'm learning is changing my life. It is very very hard to do this when you despise religion as much as I do. My psychologist said that every day that I live like this is traumatizing me. Plus I get shunned by my neighbors and some friends because I've been labeled as a rebel because I wear peace sign necklaces, skirts that don't cover my knees, bright colored shirts etc. It's very psychologically damaging.

Damn, it sounds like you live in a very brainwashed and ridiculously authoritarian society. Why these malcontents would believe in a god who allegedly wants to fuck up everyone's personal life I don't know, but I can assure you that there are many religious people who aren't complete arseholes like the ones you're describing. That being the case, I can understand and feel sorry for your position. I guess I'm lucky that I live in a society which, for the most part, cares relatively little for organised religion.

I don't think of "because god loves you" the same way that most do. It's a reminder of how my life is a mess. It's such a huge deal in my life that small things like that have a really big impact. I've been on the inside of ultra religious life (and trust me, no Non-Jew will ever know much about communities like mine) so religion isn't just a little annoyance for me. It's my personal little hell. So yeah, I'd take it badly. And though most people wouldn't get as upset as me because most people didn't have my experiences, it would have an impact (in my opinion) even if on a smaller scale.

That's understandable given what your society likes to paint religion as. Still, as unhelpful and arrogant you think people who say what they do is, remember that at least they don't actually mean to offend.

[Iris]

Damn, it sounds like you live in a very brainwashed and ridiculously authoritarian society. Why these malcontents would believe in a god who allegedly wants to fuck up everyone's personal life I don't know, but I can assure you that there are many religious people who aren't complete arseholes like the ones you're describing. That being the case, I can understand and feel sorry for your position. I guess I'm lucky that I live in a society which, for the most part, cares relatively little for organised religion.

I have nothing against religious people as long as they don't infringe on someone else's liberties because of their religion. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they're all evil. My best friend believes in the religion I'm rejecting but I don't have anything against her for it.

That's understandable given what your society likes to paint religion as. Still, as unhelpful and arrogant you think people who say what they do is, remember that at least they don't actually mean to offend.

I've never actually had anyone tell me not to do anything because god loves me; I was just giving my opinion on the subject. And I don't think they're arrogant (though they are definitely unhelpful) just brainwashed.

[Death]

I have nothing against religious people as long as they don't infringe on someone else's liberties because of their religion. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they're all evil. My best friend believes in the religion I'm rejecting but I don't have anything against her for it.

Well, at least you still have good people around you.

I've never actually had anyone tell me not to do anything because god loves me; I was just giving my opinion on the subject. And I don't think they're arrogant (though they are definitely unhelpful) just brainwashed.

Fair enough, I guess that's right.

[DerBear]

I want this to be back up for debate again as I would think its is still relveant and it will give newer members a chance to debate this topic and old members a chance to change/repeat there opinons

[Maxxie]

I want this to be back up for debate again as I would think its is still relveant and it will give newer members a chance to debate this topic and old members a chance to change/repeat there opinons

So... what, exactly, is the topic?

[Jess]

@Maxixie:
should we leave religion out of the forums unless stated?

[Maxxie]

@Maxixie:
should we leave religion out of the forums unless stated?

Should we: yes.

Are we: absolutely never.

[Genghis Khan]

Ugh. Where's Death when you need him.

[BFG9001]

I miss Death...

OT: 'God loves you' = [Nothing] in a help thread.

[Jean Poutine]

This forum should become entirely secular.

Debating religion is pointless. Absolutely, ridiculously pointless. "Debating" religion is just each party standing behind a line and shouting "arguments" at each other. No matter how much atheists like to take the logical high ground and pretend that religion is fucked up because of no proof, ridiculousness, not scientifically sound, and so on, they always fail to grasp that while their belief might conform to what we know of the world around us, knowledge gained with the leaps and bounds technology has made in the last 600 years, their belief isn't corroborated by anything either. You can't prove a negative, that is true, but come on.

Then religion comes along with such amazing taglines as "it's a question of faith!" That's the whole problem with this crap. Believing in atheism and believing in any religion takes faith in one's conviction, and faith is an intrinsically personal thing.

In my culture, religion is never discussed. It would be an immense faux pas to ask somebody other than a close friend their convictions. Religion is private, as it should be. In Ancient Rome, religion was a civic thing. The Roman state was set up to function in accordance to the Roman religion and worship was a civic, public duty (pietas). Christianity gained so much impetus because of its personal relationship with its deity. That's what religion should be. A personal relationship.

It's up to each of us to choose what we have faith in. Debating it leads to circlejerk cliques, alienation and hurt feelings while producing nothing of value but useless clutter and passé topics that come around every few months. Not to mention that even raising it up causes topics to frequently take a completely different direction than intended.

One might say, "what about raising up religious arguments for things like abortion?" I'm just going to say that if your case is majorly based on religious arguments, your case isn't strong enough and no sane person would ever give you any credit for it.

Government buildings in France are entirely secular. Religious worship is forbidden and so is the display of any overt religious sign. Religious debates causes only strife and dissent, and dare I say it, drama. It's high time to do away with it. In a forum where 99% of us are fucked up in a way or another, the last thing we need is even more drama. "lulz umad getoverit it's the internets" is not an excuse.

Have a religious crisis? Cool! Take it up with a real friend or two. You do have these, don't you?

Freedom of expression does not mean freedom to be a dumbass. Religion should never be debated, not even in this sub-section. Why? Because it's not a debate when no valid argument exists.

[jockguy14]

People are offended because if they wanted to be preached at, they would have gone to church. If an invisible being in the sky can solve all our problems, then why do posts asking for help like this even exist?

Because sometimes God has things happen to you so that he can get your attention! He's trying to say hey, wake up, look at what is happening, you need me. If everything went great for you, you would think that it's all because of you and that you wouldn't need God.

[Iris]

Because sometimes God has things happen to you so that he can get your attention! He's trying to say hey, wake up, look at what is happening, you need me. If everything went great for you, you would think that it's all because of you and that you wouldn't need God.

You don't think there's anything wrong with some dick deity fucking up your life just to get attention? That's sadistic right there.

God either doesn't exist or he's a dickwad, in either case bringing god up does not help the situation.

[Jupiter]

The way I feel about this is that it is a help forum. It's almost like telling people "no, you can't talk about your sexuality because it might hurt other people's feelings." People have beliefs, and as long as other people accept them, we can all accept each other. As a diverse and wonderful community, we can't all act like we aren't different! We do have the rights to speak our mind. At times, we really shouldn't, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I say, let them speak about whatever religion they want to, but don't expect me to give any +rep for "helping" with religion. And, this IS coming from a religious person, because.... to be honest, if people told me to act like an atheist, I'd be pretty pissed that I couldn't say what I need to. People like religion. People like masturbating. People like burning Bibles and Qur'ans. To me, I think people can do whatever the fuck they want. I feel bad for the people who get easily offended by this, but...

I guess this is just my two cents.

And by the way, this is not a thread debating whether God is real or not, so... let's be on topic.

[jockguy14]

You don't think there's anything wrong with some dick deity fucking up your life just to get attention? That's sadistic right there.

God either doesn't exist or he's a dickwad, in either case bringing god up does not help the situation.

Look at your life. See where you are, look at where others are. You are truly blessed. God has a plan for you and it is right. Sometimes bad things happen for a good reason. Had my dad never died, my mom would have never remarried, we would have never moved to a new city, and I would have never gotten the opportunities that I have today at my new school, new city. It's wonderful really.

At the time of bad things, it is human nature to want to be pitiful and say woe is me, but, in retrospect, bad things happen for a good reason.

[Iris]

Look at your life. See where you are, look at where others are. You are truly blessed. God has a plan for you and it is right. Sometimes bad things happen for a good reason. Had my dad never died, my mom would have never remarried, we would have never moved to a new city, and I would have never gotten the opportunities that I have today at my new school, new city. It's wonderful really.

At the time of bad things, it is human nature to want to be pitiful and say woe is me, but, in retrospect, bad things happen for a good reason.

Lololol go tell people who've committed suicide to end their misery that the horror of their lives was for a good reason.

[Vonn]

Look at your life. See where you are, look at where others are. You are truly blessed. God has a plan for you and it is right.

I sure hope it's right. Does it not bother you that some people have to suffer indefinitely to teach others a lesson, not themselves, for the sake of some 'plan'?

Sometimes bad things happen for a good reason.

Sometimes bad things happen because you are unable help yourself and nobody else offers to help you. More badness tends to follow if you don't solve your current problem fast enough.

Had my dad never died, my mom would have never remarried, we would have never moved to a new city, and I would have never gotten the opportunities that I have today at my new school, new city. It's wonderful really.

Death is never wonderful, unless the deceased in question was a complete asshole. I'm glad your father's death didn't result in something unpleasant for you and your family.

At the time of bad things, it is human nature to want to be pitiful and say woe is me

Of course it is. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

but, in retrospect, bad things happen for a good reason.

There are many, many people whose existence would say otherwise. Loudly. With stomping. Bad events do not always lead to good events. Usually the case is, once you've hit rock bottom, there's nowhere to go but up. Yet there are people who just seem to keep falling, without the chance to get up and dust themselves off. What's the plan for them?

[Jean Poutine]

What's the plan for them?

DA LAWD wants them dead. Obviously.

[GummyBear]

Religion will always be in the world. For better for worse.
and I think it will always be apparent in some post especially on certain issues like Life and its minor and major issues it throws at you.

and i agree with Bogumil on this one point, That you can't just stop talking about one thing because it offends a certain group of people... a land of over-censorship gets people nowhere in todays world, people need to learn to accept each other and be tolerant of each other too.

[Efflorescence]

That's all religious belief is.

It's not true. Not everyone is like that. There are many religious people who use their brains. It's only those who don't, that stand out.

When someone asks for help, telling him that God will solve all the problems is futile. But if I want to mention God and say that I felt he has helped in some way when talking about myself, I will. That's what religious freedom means.
People who don't have it, long for it. I have it and I won't let it be taken away from me.

[danny7]

well, depends on where u live u have a national religion or a [like the U.S.A.] A secular nation (meaning no national religion) and it cant be forced into people.

My opinion: Religious forums and replys are okay, because it's what the people feel is what they want to say, if you dont like it, dont read it.

Many issues like dat happening in the U.S. Government that involve religion in U.S. Print [U.S. Currency] where "In God We Trust" Is religious, but u no what, whatever.

[Angel Androgynous]

I think what you guys are missing is that if the OP clearly states that they do not want to be told "God loves you and has a plan for you," then people should respect that. Either way, telling someone who does not want to hear the whole God thing that god loves them won't help at all, and in fact, may make the situation worse. This thread is not about exterminating religion from threads all together, but about people using religion in a thread where the OP does not ask for it, and where religion is completely irrelevant.

[Jupiter]

I understand this, but.. it's just that if we live in a world of censorship, and have to watch what we say anymore than what we already have to, it doesn't seem like a very... open forum, ya know?

[Jess]

I don't really know what to say on this. If the OP doesn't say anything about not allowing religious stuff to be said in replies...there's nothing wrong with it...unless of course some religious person starts preaching...and/or the OP states later that s/he doesn't want to hear replies like "God loves you" blah blah....

[embers]

Jonte's all up in this shit.

[Jess]

I think what you guys are missing is that if the OP clearly states that they do not want to be told "God loves you and has a plan for you," then people should respect that. Either way, telling someone who does not want to hear the whole God thing that god loves them won't help at all, and in fact, may make the situation worse. This thread is not about exterminating religion from threads all together, but about people using religion in a thread where the OP does not ask for it, and where religion is completely irrelevant.

basically this, besides what I said..

Jonte's all up in this shit.

yesssss :yes:

[Efflorescence]

And I think it comes from both sides, all sides, doesn't it?
One should express his opinions, but sometimes one should learn how to put his tongue in his mouth and BITE it.

In fact I can be brutally honest and say this:
If you give me 'fuck Mary' and 'fuck Jesus' in order to try and offend me, then 'God loves you' and 'Feel the love of God' to try and offend you back, is what you'll get.
And vice-versa.
So let us all try and respect each other, now. We'll meet more of one another in the real world where one cannot simply click 'Log out' and be done with it. So let us look at this as some sort of 'training' for our life.

[Genghis Khan]

Well lately I have been reading a lot of post that have religion in them

e.g. today i was on the forum for people who are deppresed

and this girl said she wanted to kill herself (there was a lot more to it than that but that was what people were highlighting)

Any way I read some replies and I saw things like "you should not kill yourself God has given you this life"

and I find that the forum stated that she was not religious and that could offend if someone if they were not a person who believes in god so maybe if the post has something to do with religion then yes religion should be inputted but otherwise maybe it should be left out

But any way this is just my opinion.. i think we should try and leave religion out of the forums unless stated if you know what i mean as it could offend

p.s I know I am preparing myself to be shot down here but this is my opinion I would be happy to hear all your opinions on this

I disagree. If someone personally feels religion is an affective source of comfort they should be able to advise it. There needn't be a rule that says 'only state religion if they ask for it'. That's silly.

I think religion is extremely overrated on Virtual Teen. It isn't even that big an issue, you only ever get the occasional militant who tries to preach the good word and instead of rising above it everyone jumps in like a flock of starving vultures.


In fact I can be brutally honest and say this:
If you give me 'fuck Mary' and 'fuck Jesus' in order to try and offend me, then 'God loves you' and 'Feel the love of God' to try and offend you back, is what you'll get.

Lol. It's funny how whenever there's some believer trying to argue for God you can spot loads of comments like 'fuck Jesus he was this this and that' and here someone is trying to argue that saying 'Jesus loves you' might offend someone... mfw.

Not saying that it's typically bad to say 'fuck Jesus'. I do it all the time. I just think this a pussy thread.