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Old October 21st, 2017, 10:52 AM   #1
mattsmith48
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Default Did Trump Become a Religion?

The reason so many dictators are so successful at gaining and staying in power is they will create a false image of them self, portraying them self as supremely better than the rest of population, creating a state religion where they are the god. A current example of that is the Kim family in North Korea, but others have done it before most notably Stalin and Hitler.

When we see what is currently happening in the US with President Pussy Grabber, with all the attacks on the media for criticizing him, never admitting he was wrong or that he didn't know about something and just start lying or denying it instead, having to make everything about him, but most importantly his supporters and his party constantly defending him and blindly following him no matter what he says or does. Did he become a religion to those people and failed to do it on a larger scale because hes too dumb to do it?

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Old October 21st, 2017, 01:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

There are countless reasons to criticize Trump, but I think a lot of people have tunnel vision on the "he's the next hitler" idea. People give him too much credit, and forget that he's just a reality tv jackass who wants attention. Nothing but a moron who panders to the lowest common denominator.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 02:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

No, how exactly do you expect people to respond? This is honestly not even a debate, just another "Trump is Hitler" conspiracy rant. If you don't like Trump, fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But honestly, I think the real religion here is the near Satanist opinion the Far-Left has of Donald Trump, and their doomsday conspiracies that the world will end unless the mighty Satan-Trump and his Nazi-demon army is defeated by the genderqueer God of Tolerance.

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Old October 21st, 2017, 05:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

in about 3.5 or 7.5 years trump will be out of office.

plain and simple just like every other US president has been for our lifetime.

I get that you don't like trump, but as PlasmaHam noted I think the biggest problem with Trump at the current time are the sore losers. Not saying trump is a great man by any means, but also not saying the world is going to end.

Here in the US our daily lives are actually affected more by state & local policy than national policy. We also have a system of checks & balances so the president has limited power, yes they have a few extra bits of power that don't go through that process but we still have ways to stop them if they are way out of line.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 10:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

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Originally Posted by Dmaxd123 View Post
Here in the US our daily lives are actually affected more by state & local policy than national policy. We also have a system of checks & balances so the president has limited power, yes they have a few extra bits of power that don't go through that process but we still have ways to stop them if they are way out of line.
All true. And don't forget that the Constitution enshrines us the power and right to fight back against a tyrannical government, specifically through the 2nd Amendment. No president would be able to perform such Hitlerian policies as some claim Trump wants to do as long as there is an armed populace to prevent such. That is why one of the first steps of every dictatorship is to strip individuals of their right to bear arms. It would be idiotic for any population to voluntarily throw that right away, especially when they claim that the leader of the government is '#LiterallyHitler'.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 10:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

I have to agree with a lot that was said above. Trump isn't going to be the next Hitler or creating a cult.

I don't think he is interested in doing that anyway. Being a leader like that would be a horrible load of work, work people like him are not prepared to do. He wants to be praised, wants to be center of the world but not work for it. As @Babs said he is more the reality TV star type.


Trump won't be the next Hitler or whatever cult leader since he neither has the intellect nor the dedication.

However the Trump controversy shows one thing that I find truly remarkable and maybe even dangerous.
The blindness and fierceness with which people are pro or contra Trump. It sometimes feels like the one side would follow him blindly into the abyss, whereas the other would just run blindly into the abyss if Trump would tell the people not to go here.

From a psychological point of view this is very concerning. Since right now the right man or woman who would use this situation other his/ her advantage and with the right amount of brains could become the next Hitler.

In the whole Trump controversy people have forgotten to think for themselves...and once a nation cannot longer individually think then it gets dangerous.
It doesn't matter if a nation allows it's people to have weapons or if there is a constitution that might look like it prevents things from happening...it's all useless once the individual starts following the masses.

A new Hitler is far more likely to happen in the US than any European country. If If read or what European news it always feels like there's way more individual thinking done than here. I guess we in the US are sometimes a bit arrogant saying we are the greatest nation and all but in fact we are very vulnerable when it comes to extreme ideas...the only thing that always saved us till now is the sheer size of our country.

So to come back after my excurse...Trump is not the dangerous one here since in 7.5 years he will be history. We are the danger here...since an incompeted ruler showed how deeply devided our nation is....instead of standing together against someone who just uses our country to show off to the world instead of working for us, he brings out the worst in people on both sides.

It makes me sad to see that since our President acts like bullying and trolling is okay, everyone in the USA seems to forget what their Momma told them and just acts like manners, politeness and sympathy for others never were a thing.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Beside @Dalcourt no one seem to have understand what I was asking. Trump is not a new Hitler is too dumb and incompetent to get there. What I'm asking is did he become a religious figure to his supporters and members of his party in the same way dictators were?

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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

I highly doubt it. The Republican establishment picked him instead of others just because he was the most popular. Sure, there are some nutjobs who worship the guy, but their number is too little and unorganized to constitute for a cult or an organized religion. The guy cannot really be a dictator nor a religious figure. He can't even strongarm Congress into submission.

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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalcourt View Post
A new Hitler is far more likely to happen in the US than any European country. If If read or what European news it always feels like there's way more individual thinking done than here.
I have no idea what news you have been reading, but you are dead wrong. Just this last week, elections in Austria and Czechia resulted in massive victories for far-right groups. On the other hand, liberal movements or ideals imported from the USA like feminism, rape culture, safe-spaces, body-positivism, the privilege hierarchy and pretty much the whole SJW rhetoric have been having an enormous amount of adherence by European parties and society in general. In other words, people behave like sheep and refuse to think for themselves or at least compare the two sides of any issue. It's easier to blindly follow any leader or any utopic ideal that someone manages to introduce in people's minds. Some conservative people blindly follow Trump as a "deity-like" leader as much as some liberals blindly follow any sort of leftish ideology that can please their egos. In other words, anything can become some sort of religion when you refuse to acknowledge other people's truths or even attempt to debate about it.


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Old October 22nd, 2017, 08:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

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I have no idea what news you have been reading, but you are dead wrong. Just this last week, elections in Austria and Czechia resulted in massive victories for far-right groups. On the other hand, liberal movements or ideals imported from the USA like feminism, rape culture, safe-spaces, body-positivism, the privilege hierarchy and pretty much the whole SJW rhetoric have been having an enormous amount of adherence by European parties and society in general. In other words, people behave like sheep and refuse to think for themselves or at least compare the two sides of any issue. It's easier to blindly follow any leader or any utopic ideal that someone manages to introduce in people's minds. Some conservative people blindly follow Trump as a "deity-like" leader as much as some liberals blindly follow any sort of leftish ideology that can please their egos. In other words, anything can become some sort of religion when you refuse to acknowledge other people's truths or even attempt to debate about it.
Well I guess you didn't understand what I was talking about at all. I never said thinking for yourself means you will vote liberal. You can also think for yourself and be right wing/ nationalist - why not?

People in a country like e.g. Austria you mentioned kinda felt drowned in a flood of refugees. Go to this market in Vienna...it's called Naschmarkt I guess...you see so many veiled women and Middle Eastern people that as an Austrian you feel like a stranger in your own country so their fears are understandable to some extent. But in the US there is hardly any threat but still people freak out about the big bad Muslims if someone on Twitter tells them to do so.

Sure there's fear mongering in Europe, too but with a real base.
Here in the US i could far more easier invent some crazy conspiracy theory and get millions to believe it. In Europe people would need at least a grain of truth in it. That's what I meant what I learnt from talking to Europeans I know and reading news.

Sure I just speak French and German so I can't read news from where you are from, so maybe there it's completely different from France, Germany and Austria.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 10:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

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I highly doubt it. The Republican establishment picked him instead of others just because he was the most popular. Sure, there are some nutjobs who worship the guy, but their number is too little and unorganized to constitute for a cult or an organized religion.
Good points. I don't get where MattSmith is getting the idea that Trump has huge leagues of followers who take everything he says as sacrosanct. I have yet to find anyone who actually is like that. Even the die-hard Trump media guys like Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly have called out the president when he does or say something stupid. Oh I'm sure there is a very small minority of people that do mindlessly worship Donald Trump, but that is how it is for every president.
Quote:
The guy cannot really be a dictator nor a religious figure. He can't even strongarm Congress into submission.
I like Trump, but I do gotta agree that he isn't exactly dictatorship material. He doesn't know about any of the political maneuvering required for such power grabs. Ironically, Trump has been giving up more federal power over his term than he has gained. That's not how a #LiterallyHitler would typically become emperor.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

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Good points. I don't get where MattSmith is getting the idea that Trump has huge leagues of followers who take everything he says as sacrosanct. I have yet to find anyone who actually is like that. Even the die-hard Trump media guys like Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly have called out the president when he does or say something stupid. Oh I'm sure there is a very small minority of people that do mindlessly worship Donald Trump, but that is how it is for every president.
You know you can just ask me things directly. If it only had happen during the campaign and stopped after the election we wouldn't be having this discussion, but the fact it still keeps going ten months in is why I am asking this. If you take everything that happen before the election like the birther movement, Mexicans are rapists, the election is rigged, pussygate, Trump University, Muslim ban, etc. You can think maybe some of them are defending him because they just don't like Clinton or were influenced by those Russian ads on Facebook. They were other factors of course. But when you see what as happen since, from my crowd are the biggest, to Nazis are fine people, with out forgetting of course that nobody knew healthcare was so complicated. Those have nothing to do with policies or liking or not liking the guy. Most of those things he said on TV. But is supporters and party keeps defending him. A good example of that is the Russian investigation where we know they tried to influence the election and Trump knows more people who meet with Russians than the World Anti-Doping Agency. But Trump said its fake news and there are his supporters claiming its right and its just an anti-Trump conspiracy created by sore losers, even though we have evidence of it.

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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

I get you hate Trump but he's not a dictator. He's the presadent like it our not and most likely he'll be gone in 3.5 or so years. He's not starting a persanilty cult he's a Republican president not Hitler. You defend your ideals and his party members defend there's simple as that. A real personality cult like Korea they believe he's a god. They are tought from a young age that they should fallow him because he's that good. We know trump is very human.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 01:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

I don't think so.

But politics in general uses bad epistemology, and that's what I think you are sensing, with the public not exercising their intelligence and critical thinking skills to analyze things. Most people think too fast, are too reactive and don't take the mental time and energy to think things through...they also look for things that confirm their own biases and illogically reject facts or POV that clash with existing POV.


So with those two facts together you get what we're seeing now. Failure of our species. A slow failure but failure nonetheless.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 03:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

If your going to accuse people of worshiping Trump, I could just as easily accuse some Democrats and Liberals of worshiping Obama

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Old October 22nd, 2017, 07:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SethfromMI View Post
If your going to accuse people of worshiping Trump, I could just as easily accuse some Democrats and Liberals of worshiping Obama
Like Seth said, both parties can be accused of turning politics into religion.

Definition:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"

So yes if people exaggerate a politicians importsnce or believe or act in a way that he is infallible then yes they are turning politics into religion. EITHER PARTY.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 04:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Like Seth said, both parties can be accused of turning politics into religion.

Definition:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"

So yes if people exaggerate a politicians importsnce or believe or act in a way that he is infallible then yes they are turning politics into religion. EITHER PARTY.
This can be seen with several former American presidents, most notably Lincoln, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Reagan.

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Old October 23rd, 2017, 11:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SethfromMI View Post
If your going to accuse people of worshiping Trump, I could just as easily accuse some Democrats and Liberals of worshiping Obama
I don't see why liberals would be worshiping Obama. I think with Obama it was more a refusal to accept reality than worshiping like with most centrist politician in most western countries. They refuse to accept that Obama was just another centrist politician pro-war, pro-corporation etc. And that refusal is on both sides and is mostly due to the corporate media portraying a more good image of Obama, in the same way they did with Hilary Clinton because they were favourable to them financially. And you got right-wing propaganda like Fox portraying Obama as that evil Kenyan socialist who was coming for your guns and tax you at a 95% rate and let Mexicans and Muslim terrorists get in the country illegally. On the left and even centre it seems like this image disappeared during the campaign when both sides where trying to portray Hilary Clinton as a continuation of what Obama was doing, all those facts came out like that he's the president who deported the most people, or the non-stop bombing of the seven Muslim countries, which sounds like a terrible name for a children's book, on the right it still there, a good example of it is Trump's policy of Obama did it so it is bad by definition.

With Trump it is more like worship in the way that like with any religion when he does something bad that there is something that makes him look bad, they either deny it, like that time he admitted on TV he fired James Comey to make the Russia story go away, or its up to interpretation like that time he asked is second amendment supporters to assassinate his opponent because of the judges she could appoint if the became president. If Obama had said that there is no reason to believe his supporters and Party would have stayed with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Like Seth said, both parties can be accused of turning politics into religion.

Definition:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"

So yes if people exaggerate a politicians importsnce or believe or act in a way that he is infallible then yes they are turning politics into religion. EITHER PARTY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
This can be seen with several former American presidents, most notably Lincoln, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Reagan.
The only ones I think are really worshiped or at least close to be worship are Kennedy and Reagan. Lincoln I think its more like admiration for what he did.

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Old October 23rd, 2017, 07:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
I don't see why liberals would be worshiping Obama. I think with Obama it was more a refusal to accept reality than worshiping like with most centrist politician in most western countries. They refuse to accept that Obama was just another centrist politician pro-war, pro-corporation etc. And that refusal is on both sides and is mostly due to the corporate media portraying a more good image of Obama, in the same way they did with Hilary Clinton because they were favourable to them financially. And you got right-wing propaganda like Fox portraying Obama as that evil Kenyan socialist who was coming for your guns and tax you at a 95% rate and let Mexicans and Muslim terrorists get in the country illegally. On the left and even centre it seems like this image disappeared during the campaign when both sides where trying to portray Hilary Clinton as a continuation of what Obama was doing, all those facts came out like that he's the president who deported the most people, or the non-stop bombing of the seven Muslim countries, which sounds like a terrible name for a children's book, on the right it still there, a good example of it is Trump's policy of Obama did it so it is bad by definition.

With Trump it is more like worship in the way that like with any religion when he does something bad that there is something that makes him look bad, they either deny it, like that time he admitted on TV he fired James Comey to make the Russia story go away, or its up to interpretation like that time he asked is second amendment supporters to assassinate his opponent because of the judges she could appoint if the became president. If Obama had said that there is no reason to believe his supporters and Party would have stayed with him.





The only ones I think are really worshiped or at least close to be worship are Kennedy and Reagan. Lincoln I think its more like admiration for what he did.
Just what I expected from you. it is IMPOSSIBLE for liberals and democrats to blindly worship and follow Obama but Trump supporters can. you just proved my point

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Old October 23rd, 2017, 07:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Did Trump Become a Religion?

Quote:
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Just what I expected from you. it is IMPOSSIBLE for liberals and democrats to blindly worship and follow Obama but Trump supporters can. you just proved my point
Not saying its impossible, just saying it is not as widely spread as people blindly as people blindly worship Trump or former presidents like Kennedy or Reagan. I think because people on right tend to be more religious is why it seems like it is more widely spread but they are people on all sides who do it.

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