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View Poll Results: Should legal immigration in your country be less restricted?
Yes, open borders 4 16.67%
Yes, easier access to permanent residency 7 29.17%
No, we must restrict immigration 10 41.67%
Status quo 3 12.50%
No opinion 0 0%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 22nd, 2017, 09:05 PM   #1
Porpoise101
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Lightbulb Open Borders

What do you think of open, or at least more liberalized immigration? Give your opinion on the matter along with some justification ideally.

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Old August 22nd, 2017, 09:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Open Borders

I'm not that familiar with immigration, but I guess I am more in the "status quo" group in terms of it. But I think that designation provides a bit of a disservice towards my actual opinion upon on immigration. I think our main focus currently should not be changing how many people enter the country, but instead figuring out who we should allow to enter this country. Immigration can be a benefit or a detriment upon a society, I feel like the current US system is a detriment, but it can be helped.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 11:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Open Borders

Definitely open borders. If you really believe you live in the best country in the world, you should let as many people as possible enjoy it and live in your country.

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Old August 23rd, 2017, 12:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: Open Borders

Honestly it has to be controlled. Allowing stupid amounts of people in can wreck a country, the uk is a good example schools are over crowded and hospital's are so under founded and near breaking point because more and more people are moving/ have moved into the uk. If it's controlled like allowing so many refugees and so many skilled workers for jobs that need to be filled it would work so much better here
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 05:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Open Borders

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Honestly it has to be controlled. Allowing stupid amounts of people in can wreck a country, the uk is a good example schools are over crowded and hospital's are so under founded and near breaking point because more and more people are moving/ have moved into the uk.
Imagine how much worse it would be if these immigrants just evaporated. You would lose a lot of population, and not just any population either. Immigrant populations work, so you would end up losing economic activity and any tax revenues that result from that activity. This would render governments less able to provide services to your citizens. I feel that the poor quality in public services is less to do with immigrants and overcrowding and more to do with not taxing enough/smartly to fund your programs. In fact, more immigration could be a solution to your funding issues as long as you can integrate them into your workforce.

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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Open Borders

i live in the country, hispanics are common on the farms so i'm not anti-immigration

my thoughts are if you are coming from another country you need to be coming for a job not to live off of our system (i'm also all for making the unemployed do some nature of community service to receive their benefits but that is a different story)

immigrants get a temporary work permit say 6months or a year, then they can reapply for an extended say 5 year term. at the end of 5 years if their taxes are in order they are staying out of legal trouble and they wish to become a citizen let them take a citizenship test and they are welcome to stay
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Old August 24th, 2017, 09:33 PM   #7
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immigrants get a temporary work permit say 6months or a year, then they can reapply for an extended say 5 year term. at the end of 5 years if their taxes are in order they are staying out of legal trouble and they wish to become a citizen let them take a citizenship test and they are welcome to stay
It is interesting you say this and you voted 'status quo' in the poll. What you say here is something I agree with, however it is much more streamlined than the current American immigration system and pathway to citizenship.

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Old August 25th, 2017, 04:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: Open Borders

For skilled immigrants it should be greatly liberalised,

There should also be a significant expansion of temporary workers visas which places significant importance on cultural diversity.

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If you really believe you live in the best country in the world, you should let as many people as possible enjoy it and live in your country.
You can earn a better standard of living as a homeless person in the United States, than living in some countries in the world - and a significant amount I might add. Entirely open borders would undoubtedly lead to situation which would be straight-up un-humanitarian: slums and deplorable amounts of urban-overcrowding which would undermine physical and social infrastructure.

It's frankly just not a sustainable option, no matter how great your sense of cosmopolitanism.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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Old August 25th, 2017, 05:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: Open Borders

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Originally Posted by Porpoise101 View Post
It is interesting you say this and you voted 'status quo' in the poll. What you say here is something I agree with, however it is much more streamlined than the current American immigration system and pathway to citizenship.
i say status quo because I know that what I think would be a logical immigration solution really isn't likely to happen. so that leaves me in the leave them alone or tighten them down... opening the boarders more just isn't a good option at this point in time
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Old August 25th, 2017, 05:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Open Borders

Since I prefer to live in a boundless world, my answer can only be pro open borders, but would be in the end: no borers.





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Last edited by lliam; August 25th, 2017 at 05:37 AM.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Open Borders

I only support legal immigration, not open borders or illegal immigration/refugee status.
Europe is a good example why.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 09:56 AM   #12
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Entirely open borders would undoubtedly lead to situation which would be straight-up un-humanitarian: slums and deplorable amounts of urban-overcrowding which would undermine physical and social infrastructure.
And before this can truly materialize, you'd probably see some type of xenophobic and populist backlash that threatens your whole system. This is the main reason I think the change needs to happen in gradual steps over time.

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Old August 25th, 2017, 10:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke15 View Post
Europe is a good example why.
explain

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Originally Posted by Porpoise101 View Post
This is the main reason I think the change needs to happen in gradual steps over time.
Yepp. Luke mentioned Europe as a example. I don't go with his intensions (which I only can assume yet) ...

But in the case of open borders, imo Europe is a good example. Not every new member of the EU immediately receives the full membership status, even if the borders are more or less open.

Also, I think that Europe has grown much too fast since the 1990s. No trace of "gradual steps over time" in any case.

And this is one of the main causes of the crisis in which Europe has maneuvered itself.

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Old August 25th, 2017, 10:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Open Borders

Europe is getting a new terrorist attacked every 2 months, rapes, murders, attacks have increased since they let in "refugees" that come from not only Syria, but bunch of other countries that hate west.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...3664746192&z=5
What migrants did to Germany.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 10:35 PM   #15
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That map has been debunked as any sort of indication of migrant crime. It is only a worst-case scenario (as in if all of the cases on the map are legit, most cannot be verified). Bring in real, hard facts next time.

I do agree with the sentiment that the EU countries failed to produce a cohesive strategy to deal with migrants. But I will remind you all that such plans failed because nationalist and isolationist opposition in the EU (from countries like Poland and Hungary) prevented any unified, cohesive approach to dealing with the migrant crisis from succeeding. The people who whine today about 'muh migrants' caused this to happen. Any blood and damage is on them for the most part.

In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.

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Old August 26th, 2017, 07:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Porpoise101 View Post
That map has been debunked as any sort of indication of migrant crime. It is only a worst-case scenario (as in if all of the cases on the map are legit, most cannot be verified). Bring in real, hard facts next time.

I do agree with the sentiment that the EU countries failed to produce a cohesive strategy to deal with migrants. But I will remind you all that such plans failed because nationalist and isolationist opposition in the EU (from countries like Poland and Hungary) prevented any unified, cohesive approach to dealing with the migrant crisis from succeeding. The people who whine today about 'muh migrants' caused this to happen. Any blood and damage is on them for the most part.

In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.
Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 08:48 AM   #17
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Such maps are imo just populistic crap.

The greatest enemy for one's own country is imo a rampant populism. The immigrants in general aren't such a big deal.


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Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.
Forget those sources. If these datas aren't 100% factually and objectively presented as news, they are just dunghills in the allday landscape of latest news.

And even objectively, very serious news services aren't always really serious presenters of those real datas. You should always lower your expectations when it comes watching or reading news.





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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:40 AM   #18
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I only support legal immigration, not open borders or illegal immigration/refugee status.
Europe is a good example why.
Refugees are the ones we should open our borders the most to. They are suffering greatly and if they had stay they would most likely have died there. It is our moral obligation open our borders to them and help them to a better and safer live.

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Originally Posted by Porpoise101 View Post
In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.
We are actually a bilingual country.

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Old August 26th, 2017, 03:47 PM   #19
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Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.
If you actually read my link, you would know that these 'cases' are not all confirmed to be done by migrants. Much of the cases are only supported by eyewitness accounts that say that the people who did the act were "dark" or "swarthy". This gives zero information, because it means the perpetrators could have been a migrant, a Turk who has lived his whole life in Germany, or even an unshaven German who got a suntan! Sure, I may be exaggerating, but the point is that there is no certainty here. So, your map is trash.

And even if it was worthwhile, it does not give any meaningful information on immigration unless we have a map of crimes that non-migrants committed. Only then we will be able to analyze crime and compare risks with a clear head.

@mattsmith48 in immigration terms, you are Anglophone because most of your immigrants speak English as a second language rather than French. In many ways, you are a little more bilingual than the US (we have Spanish too). Not saying this is good or bad, it is just the way that things have gone. Canada was always Anglo-dominated after British takeover.

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Old August 27th, 2017, 12:42 AM   #20
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@mattsmith48 in immigration terms, you are Anglophone because most of your immigrants speak English as a second language rather than French. In many ways, you are a little more bilingual than the US (we have Spanish too). Not saying this is good or bad, it is just the way that things have gone. Canada was always Anglo-dominated after British takeover.
We are officially a bilingual country. Because we are the minority it is more practical for immigrants to choose to go with English unless they are going to live in Quebec.

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