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Old March 21st, 2017, 02:19 PM   #1
Voice_Of_Unreason
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Default 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZHerald
Kiwi weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has dominated her first major competition, taking out the Australian International in Melbourne on a night she made history as the first transgender athlete to represent New Zealand.

Hubbard, 39, won the women’s over 90kg division at the Melbourne event, setting four unofficial national records in the process. Hubbard lifted a combined total of 268kg – 19kg better than silver medallist Iuniarra Sipaia of Samoa.

Garry Marshall, president of the Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand, said Hubbard, who once competed as Gavin Hubbard, will be picked for the Commonwealth Games, form permitting.
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So in basic terms, a guy who thinks he is a girl uses his biological advantages to win an international competition against natural women, and also broke numerous national female records in the process. Is there a future for women in sports if mediocre male athletes can "switch-over" and annihilate the competition like this?
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Old March 21st, 2017, 02:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

Hahahahaha, this is kind of hilarious, honestly. And if someone dared to criticise him for being born a man and having an unfair advantage, he would just probably pull the "transphobic" card and get away with it xD


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Old March 21st, 2017, 04:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

It's like boxers that lose weight to go in the class underneath them and beat up on lighter guys. Yeah, it's unfair sometimes n it sucks, but hey it happens. It's whatever tbh. As long as it's legit transition n not them just saying their a woman to get away with it.

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Old March 22nd, 2017, 01:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

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Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
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So in basic terms, a guy who thinks he is a girl uses his biological advantages to win an international competition against natural women, and also broke numerous national female records in the process. Is there a future for women in sports if mediocre male athletes can "switch-over" and annihilate the competition like this?
I don't think competing at the Commonwealth games will happen. l'm pretty sure athletes are subject to genetic testing like the Olympics, if your genetics say you're male, you cant compete in female competition and vice versa.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

This is a complicated problem here. I would be okay with it if the person already went through surgery and well, had their gender changed permanently. Anyone can pull this off and this is bullshit.
@Living For Love That's the main problem here. You can't actually say he (she?) Is wrong because you'll look like an asshole to the already cancerous SJW community. They're offended so easily it only makes other LGBT people look like left worshipping braindead assholes.

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Old March 24th, 2017, 12:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

i tried to care but fuckin uhhhh why should i. you make it sound like an elaborate scheme. no one's gonna get their dick cut off and sold to indochina so he can compete against weaker opponents.
however, i do agree that biological sex has a lot to do with sports and that it makes more sense to categorize people by that in this context.
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Old March 24th, 2017, 12:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

The degree of ignorance flaunted based on various replies to transgender issues never fail to astound me.

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Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
So in basic terms, a guy who thinks he is a girl uses his biological advantages to win an international competition against natural women, and also broke numerous national female records in the process. Is there a future for women in sports if mediocre male athletes can "switch-over" and annihilate the competition like this?
First off this assertion is extreme as transgender male are allowed to compete against males too. No one will be crazy enough to claim to be transgender just for the sake of winning some meaningless medal. Based on this study, it has shown that transgender women run distance races at approximately the same level, for their respective gender, both before and after gender transition. People who pull this excuse are likely athletes who will never win even if these transgender people did not compete. As the saying goes, a poor workman always blames the tools. The fact is there is no total fairness in sports. Every athlete, cisgender or transgender, will always have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. People come in all shapes and sizes. For example, we don’t disqualify Michael Phelps for having super-long arms; that’s just a competitive advantage he has in his sport. We also don’t regulate height in the WNBA or NBA; being tall is just an advantage. For as long as sports have been around, there will always be people who have had advantages over others. A universal level playing field in sports or any other area (like academics) does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Living For Love View Post
Hahahahaha, this is kind of hilarious, honestly. And if someone dared to criticise him for being born a man and having an unfair advantage, he would just probably pull the "transphobic" card and get away with it xD
People will call you transphobic if you have an emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards transgender. You cannot be a transphobic if you do not have those feelings. However if you think that a transgender female will still always have an automatic advantage after going for a sex change operation and is started on hormone therapy then you are ignorant since research has shown otherwise in certain sports. Granted not all sports have been researched upon but current evidence seem to favor the idea that transgender females do not have an unfair advantage against 46,XX females in sports.

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I don't think competing at the Commonwealth games will happen. l'm pretty sure athletes are subject to genetic testing like the Olympics, if your genetics say you're male, you cant compete in female competition and vice versa.
The mere mention of gender testing suggests how ignorant you are on this issue. Since the 1950 when sex verification was first introduced into sports there still hasn’t been a consensus on the appropriate test. Chromosome testing was done in the past at the Olympics but was later abolished as it was proven to be inconclusive in proving maleness. Genetic testing has long been criticised by geneticist and doctors such as endocrinologists as women with sexual developmental defects (like psueohermaphroditism) will be negatively impacted. There is also a condition called androgen insensitivity where a 46 XY genotype will end up being a female phenotype as cells fail to respond to testosterone.

Even if gender was based on testosterone levels, women who suffer from hyperandrogenism will fail such tests.

We are all slaves in this new age.

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Old March 24th, 2017, 01:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

The mere mention of gender testing suggests how ignorant you are on this issue. Since the 1950 when sex verification was first introduced into sports there still hasn’t been a consensus on the appropriate test. Chromosome testing was done in the past at the Olympics but was later abolished as it was proven to be inconclusive in proving maleness. Genetic testing has long been criticised by geneticist and doctors such as endocrinologists as women with sexual developmental defects (like psueohermaphroditism) will be negatively impacted. There is also a condition called androgen insensitivity where a 46 XY genotype will end up being a female phenotype as cells fail to respond to testosterone.

Even if gender was based on testosterone levels, women who suffer from hyperandrogenism will fail such tests.[/QUOTE]

We'll see what happens come Commonwealth Games time then l guess. l didn't make any claims to being an expert either

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Old March 24th, 2017, 01:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

What's new about it? All female athletes of the old German Democratic Republic ( GDR ) were alleged to be transgender men. And according to rumors I once overheard, all the successes of female Russian athletes of that times may've been based on a similar concept.


Whether this is true or not, the world isn't gonna crazy just in our times.

So, to me, that's yesterday news. But it was fun to read.





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Old March 24th, 2017, 08:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

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Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
People will call you transphobic if you have an emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards transgender. You cannot be a transphobic if you do not have those feelings. However if you think that a transgender female will still always have an automatic advantage after going for a sex change operation and is started on hormone therapy then you are ignorant since research has shown otherwise in certain sports. Granted not all sports have been researched upon but current evidence seem to favor the idea that transgender females do not have an unfair advantage against 46,XX females in sports.
I'm curious to see that evidence xD Even if the testosterone levels of the transgender athlete were below the permitted limit, you can't simply ignore the effects testosterone had in the development of the man before his transitioning to woman. Even after all the surgeries and hormone treatment, a transgender woman is not and will never be biologically equal to a woman. What you could also argue were the criteria one has to meet in order to be able to enter the competition. If the criteria is "you have to have less than x nmol/L serum testosterone", then I guess even some men with hypogonadism could be allowed, but if the criteria is "you have to be a woman", and being a woman is 46,XX, then no, transgender people can't be allowed.


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Old March 24th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

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Originally Posted by Living For Love View Post
I'm curious to see that evidence xD Even if the testosterone levels of the transgender athlete were below the permitted limit, you can't simply ignore the effects testosterone had in the development of the man before his transitioning to woman. Even after all the surgeries and hormone treatment, a transgender woman is not and will never be biologically equal to a woman. What you could also argue were the criteria one has to meet in order to be able to enter the competition. If the criteria is "you have to have less than x nmol/L serum testosterone", then I guess even some men with hypogonadism could be allowed, but if the criteria is "you have to be a woman", and being a woman is 46,XX, then no, transgender people can't be allowed.
First off I am not claiming to be an expert on transgender issues in sports but am merely pointing out your ignorance when you made those statements alleging transgender will pull the transphobic card and that trasngender women have an unfair advantage. Throughout the history of the Olympics games and by extension international sporting events, gender issues have never been an obvious answer. Even women were not allowed to compete in the first 50 odd years of the modern olympics but were gradually involved due to gender equality ideas.

The purpose of sports is to unite individuals, increase participation and to eliminate discrimination from sports. Also there is no such thing as total fairness or any absolute definition of gender given the various controversies over the definition of gender and supposed fairness. There are also cases of people who are genetically male 46XY but phenotypically female due to androgen insensitivity. The point being gender is a complex issue and is best left to the experts. If the IOC thinks that based on current evidence, transgender athletes be allowed based on certain criteria then so be it. However, you using it as a talking point to diss transgenders is pathetic and despicable.

We are all slaves in this new age.

Last edited by bentheplayer; March 24th, 2017 at 10:19 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2017, 04:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

@bentheplayer you completely avoided the question. Does it not undermine the success of natural women if men come over and blows away the competition? And given the "natural advantages don't matter" attitude of yours, how about we completely abolish gendered sports and simply have one integrated group? After all, natural advantages don't matter.

Saying that since transgender runners are equal to natural runners is a clear indicator that there are no biological advantages is a false comparison. Running is an endurance sport, and in endurance sports men are only slightly better than women. The record marathon time for men and women are only 10 minutes different. Weight-lifting is a strength sport, in which men are greatly superior to women. The record deadlift weight for men is over 500lbs greater than that of a women. As such, it is not ridiculous to say that the slight endurance difference between men and women is nullified during transgenderism. Especially so since hormonal therapies have been shown to weaken the heart and increase the risks for heart problems. However, to preclude that men would lose their nearly 100% strength advantage over women during hormonal therapy seems very illogical.

However, lets use your logic and preclude that a decrease in endurance directly correlates into an overall physical decrease. I did some quick calculations and figured out the endurance difference between men and women, and it falls at around 10%. By using your flawed logic, and saying that there is a direct correlation between endurance and strength, the transgender would still be superior to the natural woman in terms of brute strength. The only way that you can defend your argument is to say that there isn't a direct correlation between strength and endurance, which at the same time completely undermines your current argument.

(I have just realized I may have misunderstood your statement. I am not sure though so I am going to leave this counter-argument up. If so, then just ignore the last two paragraphs)


Quote:
There is no reason to be afraid of it as long as you read the literature more extensively rather than attempting to frame your own preconceived ideas on trangender issues. If people were truly keen on learning more about transgender issues then they would be aware of or at least ask about them rather than ridiculing them.
Isn't it prejudient to assert that @Living For Love has a lesser degree of knowledge and is lesser read than you regarding transgender issues, despite the fact that your discussion has barely scratched the surface of those issues? Isn't it prejudient to assume Living for Love is afraid of transgenderism? Isn't it also prejudient to assume that people who don't support transgenderism don't ever talk to transgenders?

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Old March 25th, 2017, 11:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

@PlasmaHam: I don't feel like @bentheplayer is prejudiced here. I have read through a lot of things @Living For Love, you and a couple of other members in this forum say about transgender people.

I have a transgender younger family member and reading all those people's comments on transgenderism makes me really feel sick sometimes.

But to go back on topic. Nobody would "chop his dick off" to win championship or a gold medal. Not feeling "at home" in your own body is horrible enough those people don't need anybody else's childish comments.
There are rules in sports championships. If the rules allow it it is okay, there are a few gray areas if you people take the time to read through the history of sports events, rules or rule changes in sports over the years. And there are other examples of things that give a certain person or group and " unfair advantage" aren't there?
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Old April 30th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

I decided to come check this place out again after having left awhile back, and this thread reminded me EXACTLY of the reason why I left - insufferable SJWs. Most specifically, @bentheplayer and his "I am an intellectually superior, rich little asshole who thinks he knows everything, and everyone else is misinformed/prejudiced/ignorant/unable to comprehend my backwards ass flawed fucking logic" attitude. But, for the hell of it, I logged in today just to point this shit out, as I did time and time again to idiots like him who claim to love "fact-based evidence" but rarely ever listen to it, because this shit has just gotten insanely ridiculous:

LIVING FOR LOVE IS CORRECT. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GENDER (AN IMAGINARY SOCIAL CONSTRUCT) AND BIOLOGICAL SEX (NATURE-DEFINED AND IRREFUTABLE FACTUAL EVIDENCE).

Let me say it one more time, for those of you who just got all shocked, offended, and pissed off; gender is not sex. Gender is a sociological creation designed to separate men from women, while biological sex is what ACTUALLY SEPARATES MEN FROM WOMEN!

I'll even break it down into the Mirriam-Webster definitions for you!

Gender - the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

Sex - either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures; the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females.

What does this boil down to? YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR SEX! NO SURGERY CAN CHANGE THAT! It's very simple, not at all difficult to understand, and quite frankly, it's an issue I'm sick of hearing about these days. Call me whatever you want, I am a realist and see this world for what it is, and "transgenderism" is a problem. The fact that our society accepts this as a more or less normal thing is a problem. The fact that so-called "sex change operations" are legal is a problem. I'm not transphobic or homophobic or anything of the sort, contrary to what any of you may believe; it is simply not the natural behavior/desires of a human being.

Putting that argument to bed for the moment, I'm going to address some of the ridiculous comments made by none other than our resident asshole @bentheplayer as he seems to love belittling others through his words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
The degree of ignorance flaunted based on various replies to transgender issues never fail to astound me.
Well, the stupid and insensitive shit that pours out of you never fails to astound me either, so I guess we're on a level playing field, bud.

Also, I'm gonna track how many times you use the word ignorant in you posts, already hit 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
First off this assertion is extreme as transgender male are allowed to compete against males too. No one will be crazy enough to claim to be transgender just for the sake of winning some meaningless medal.
I'll use this one to point out your lack of sensitivity to the human existence. If someone wants something to the point of obsession, if it is an absolute life goal and that goal has such a profound impact on someone, they'll do anything they can to achieve it. Combine that strong desire with someone who is mentally unstable, you very well could (and do) end up with people who would make that claim, or undergo that change. What's meaningless to you could be of infinite value to someone else, a lesson I suspect you never learned, or never appreciated if you did, because of your self-professed astounding upbringing. What's the saying? "One man's trash is another's treasure."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
As the saying goes, a poor workman always blames the tools. The fact is there is no total fairness in sports. Every athlete, cisgender or transgender, will always have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. People come in all shapes and sizes. For example, we donít disqualify Michael Phelps for having super-long arms; thatís just a competitive advantage he has in his sport. We also donít regulate height in the WNBA or NBA; being tall is just an advantage. For as long as sports have been around, there will always be people who have had advantages over others. A universal level playing field in sports or any other area (like academics) does not exist.
This is just absurd of you to even say. So by your own logic, which I'm sure you'll deny, if Michael Phelps had a sex change and became a woman and named himsef Michaela Phelps and swam in a women's competition, and won, it's attributable to the fact that his arms are longer and not that he's a fucking MAN? Here's a scenario for you; a woman "becomes" a man and wants to play in the NFL. Just because she claims to be a man, you'd say she's okay to do that, that she'll be as durable as biological men in the NFL, but that she's entering into an already unlevel playing field?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
People will call you transphobic if you have an emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards transgender. You cannot be a transphobic if you do not have those feelings. However if you think that a transgender female will still always have an automatic advantage after going for a sex change operation and is started on hormone therapy then you are ignorant since research has shown otherwise in certain sports. Granted not all sports have been researched upon but current evidence seem to favor the idea that transgender females do not have an unfair advantage against 46,XX females in sports.
"Ignorance" tally: 2

No, you get called transphobic for something as simple as not wanting to use a fucking bathroom with one. You get called transphobic for (rightly) saying there's something not clicking in the heads of people who undergo such an operation. You get called transphobic for not wanting to talk about transgenderism. Basically, if you say or think or even imply anything other than full support for transgenderism, you're called transphobic. The same goes for homophobic. It's all or nothing for them, you're for them or against them and that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
The mere mention of gender testing suggests how ignorant you are on this issue. Since the 1950 when sex verification was first introduced into sports there still hasnít been a consensus on the appropriate test. Chromosome testing was done in the past at the Olympics but was later abolished as it was proven to be inconclusive in proving maleness. Genetic testing has long been criticised by geneticist and doctors such as endocrinologists as women with sexual developmental defects (like psueohermaphroditism) will be negatively impacted. There is also a condition called androgen insensitivity where a 46 XY genotype will end up being a female phenotype as cells fail to respond to testosterone.

Even if gender was based on testosterone levels, women who suffer from hyperandrogenism will fail such tests.
"Ignorance" tally: 3

I'm not going into the meat of this paragraph, as quite frankly I don't give a shit about the history of chromosomal/genetic testing, but I just wanted to point out the word ignorant again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
First off I am not claiming to be an expert on transgender issues in sports but am merely pointing out your ignorance when you made those statements alleging transgender will pull the transphobic card and that trasngender women have an unfair advantage. Throughout the history of the Olympics games and by extension international sporting events, gender issues have never been an obvious answer. Even women were not allowed to compete in the first 50 odd years of the modern olympics but were gradually involved due to gender equality ideas.
"Ignorance" tally: 4

Actually, that's exactly what you were doing. You always do that, you think you're the world's leading authority on everything. Hence my comment about you being an insufferable asshole who thinks you're above everyone else due to your "prestigious, world-class education."

Oh, and it really should be "sex-equality ideas," because let's remember that gender is an imaginary social construct, whereas sex is naturally defined!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
The purpose of sports is to unite individuals, increase participation and to eliminate discrimination from sports. Also there is no such thing as total fairness or any absolute definition of gender given the various controversies over the definition of gender and supposed fairness. There are also cases of people who are genetically male 46XY but phenotypically female due to androgen insensitivity. The point being gender is a complex issue and is best left to the experts. If the IOC thinks that based on current evidence, transgender athletes be allowed based on certain criteria then so be it. However, you using it as a talking point to diss transgenders is pathetic and despicable.
First off, the overall purpose of sports is to have fun, you douchebag. You can't seriously sit there and think that your robotic, inhuman definition of sports is accurate. "Increase participation?" Are you KIDDING me, dude?

The only people who object to the definition of gender are the ones who don't understand the difference between gender and sex. In other words, snowflake liberals. Or people like yourself.

Hmm, you say to leave it to the experts, but on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC involving transgenderism, you feel obligated to reply? Why is that, I wonder? Is it to educate the uneducated rabble you seem to believe we all are?

Now, here's where I'm going to blast you: Fuck off telling people they're despicable and pathetic, you trumped-up prick. If anyone at all on this entire thread is pathetic and despicable, it would be you for believing yourself to be so good compared to everyone else. People like you are what's wrong with the fucking world. You're so quick to leap at the throat of anyone who says something you believe to be offensive, yet you'll turn around and say offensive and harmful shit right back to someone and claim you're not in the wrong. You're the kind of person I absolutely fucking hate, the very embodiment of being a dick. And before you accuse me of being hypocritical given the shit I'm saying to you, I know I am, but I also don't give a fuck because I was raised to know when lines have been crossed, and you're about 50 bounds past the line. I'll gladly tell you something about yourself, Ben. You're an asshole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
Clearly you don't understand the meaning of irony. That statement can at best be excused or explained as sarcasm which is no better since it shows utter contempt towards transgenders by insinuating that transphobia doesn't exist and/or that transgender erroneously claim transphobia. Even if you thought that it was irony in good faith, it was an extremely tasteless remark which can be easily construed as incitement and justification of transphobia since you are treating it as a joke.
YOU are a fucking joke, dude. Get the fuck out of here, coming at someone with accusations like that. You put words in his mouth and twisted the meaning of what he said to create an opportunity for yourself to act sophisticated and harass someone.

Here's the breakdown: transgenders DO claim transphobia by anyone who doesn't 100% support them! I mentioned this earlier. And most people who are described as "transphobic" are simply uncomfortable with them, or don't believe it's right, for whatever reason you choose to name! It's not "oh fuck that transsexual piece of shit," it's "I don't want to share a public restroom with a man" or "I don't support them for religious reasons." This really isn't a joking issue at all, and nobody here treats it as such. This is a serious issue regarding people who have serious mental problems which drive them to change their sex. If anyone here has made a joke of it, it would be you, exploiting the issue and words of others to play SJW and let loose with your insufferable intellectual bullshit dick syndrome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
As for the terms gender and sex, I intentionally used those terms synonymously to assess whether you are conversant with the semantics of them in the field of competitive sports. Evidently you are not since you didn't realise that both terms tend to be used interchangeably when used in the context of sex/gender verification by the various sporting associations. The distinction of gender and sex is still a fairly modern concept and even WHO is using a working definition. As a matter of a fact, not too long ago, FDA used to use gender instead of sex when referring to physiological differences between male and female organisms. To think that biology is not changed at all is wrong since HRT in MTF causes some physical, neurological and physiological changes.
I defined gender and sex at the beginning of my post. Reference it.

Here, so much farther along, you're STILL acting as if Living For Love is a mentally retarded gorilla. Talk about insulting someone, you did it buddy. And through it all, you keep up that faÁade of trying to sound educated. Honestly all you sound like is someone who googles every issue presented to them and then parrots the search result back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
Do you even understand what irony or sarcasm is? When you said pull the transphobic card and meant it in irony it means that you are suggesting it doesn't exist or ridiculing it. Irony is a figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule in which laudatory expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt. This is merely linguistics and not about being sensitive.
You really are an asshole, Jesus Christ man. Yet another example of you believing yourself to be smarter than everyone else, now you're defining simple words like irony because you think we don't understand it! You are a sensitive douchebag, Living For Love was correct yet again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
Considering that I support transgender issues and actively read up on them I don't see why I am discouraging discourse on them. I am more than aware of the use of gender and sex given that I have been following the semantics of these words globally since 2010.
You discourage it because as soon as anyone says something you DON'T agree with, you turn to insulting and belittling them as if they're beneath you! And you're 16 right? If you honestly expect me or anyone else to believe that you've been actively following sex/gender issues since you were 9 fucking years old, you're sorely mistaken. You really just sound like you're compensating for something, trying to sound as if you're another Hawking or what have you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
There is no reason to be afraid of it as long as you read the literature more extensively rather than attempting to frame your own preconceived ideas on trangender issues. If people were truly keen on learning more about transgender issues then they would be aware of or at least ask about them rather than ridiculing them.
"Read the literature." Are you fucking serious? I really question if you're an emotionless fucking robot instead of a human being. Let me tell you something, bud; the "literature" isn't how the world works. "Literature" won't get you through this existence. "Literature" doesn't make you smart. "Literature" can't even begin to encompass the true range of the human existence and our reasons for doing and believing certain things. You might be well versed in the "literature" but you're absolutely fucking senseless when it comes to the real world and how people work.

Since you support transgenders so much, let me ask you this - would you date one? Marry one? Sleep with one? Would you marry someone of the opposite sex and if she decided to become one, would you support her? Would you support your best friend (provided you even have friends) if he/she wanted to? What about your parents, what if one of them decided to switch it up? If you even hesitated in answering any of those for a single moment while you read them, you're a hypocritical sack of shit, because by the arguments you have made here and on other threads about this issue, your answer to all of those should be a "yes."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
I didnít focus on the fairness of sports since this was not posted in ROTW but since you asked here it is. There has been no real definition of fairness since there will never be a consensus of what fairness entails. If we were to define fairness as a universal initial equal degree of opportunities for every individual person then athletes from developed countries would have an unfair advantage compared to those from less developed countries. The idea of fairness in sports is a multidimensional issue that involves philosophy, science and ethics/morality with the aims of sports in mind. The aims of sports is not merely to win but to foster equality, respect, excellence and friendship pursued through sporting without doping, integrity, solidarity, tolerance, care and joy.
Again, you're stupid. Sports is about having fun, not all this excess bullshit you're spinning to make yourself sound intelligent. You play a sport because it is fun and you love to do so, not because you want to "foster tolerance, integrity, and equality."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
It is quite evident that you have absolutely no clue about the IOC deliberation of transgender people participation in sport or the issues involved. Have you read or are even aware of the 2003 Stockholm Consensus on Sex Reassignment in Sports? Sporting commissions do recognise that the overriding sporting objective is and remains the guarantee of fair competition and that restrictions on participation are appropriate to the extent that they are necessary and proportionate to the achievement of that objective. Given that guidelines are a living document and subject to review based in any new scientific or medical developments, since Laurel met those current requirements, to answer your loaded question, it is fair for her to compete. As a matter of fact, the IOC also states that females with hyperandrogenism should be eligible for to compete in male competition if not eligible for female competition. There can never be total complete fairness that everyone agrees to but as long they are all subject to the same rules then it is fair.
Here we go again, more smart-sounding bullshit you googled and regurgitated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
Again your chronic inability to see past emotionally charged arguments and your personal perceptions of natural law cloud your ability to view this issue rationally. Based on your statements, you clearly do not understand the effects of HRT which causes a decrease in muscle mass, bone density and erythrocytes which will cause a decrease in strength, speed and endurance. At the moment the IOC position seems to be that this decrease (in physical advantage) is considered as fair but that could change again in the future perhaps based on specific sports. My point on natural advantages is that they donít infringe the idea of fair play in the minds of sporting associations. Considering that Africans have been practically wining most athletics, one could also argue that it is unfair to compete against them. There are many variables that people could demand for fairness but this will reduce the competition to one between theoretically homogenous sub-groups which defeats the purpose of sports.
Ah, now there's a "chronic inability" at play, huh? Do you ever actually read or listen to the shit you say, and realize how much of an asshole every new word you speak makes you sound like? And oh boy, it's a good thing I'm not a liberal; I might have otherwise been offended when you suggested Africans might just be unfair to compete against. Whew, looks like you skated past an outraged racism accusation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
If you were to read my above response to plasmaham, I explained that while it may be perceived as "unfair" in this aspect, barring empirical evidence which will never be perfect anyways, it is not the only variable in the broader consideration of fairness on a whole. As you pointed out, nothing can ever be made fair.
Because fact is hard to prove as perfect, right? It's so difficult to prove that a man has a penis and a woman has a vagina. Or that you're still the same sex you were after receiving a "sex change."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
In any case, provisions for transgender participation in sports ought to exist unless of course your goal is to bar them from competition. So far and in past threads you have been extremely keen on restricting transgender liberty for meaningful participation in society. How about coming clean on your objectives on trans issues rather than attempting to weave smoke screens that can be easily penetrated? At least try making one that is thicker? An appeal to emotion and childish/irrational complaints will never work on educated people. If you were instead actually keen on promoting equality and inclusiveness, how about suggesting meaningful proposals to enable fairer rules for all and transgender people?
Well since you're a liberal idiot in favor of "equality" for everyone, let me point out that you create a very distinctly unfair and unequal atmosphere by allowing transgender individuals to compete in sports leagues designed for the opposite sex. But I'm sure you'll find a way to shoot that argument down with some fancy google-searching and some clever verbiage.

Here you go being an asshole again, calling people out and pretending you're the righteous one. Now we have "smoke screens" in the mix? You're calling him childish, irrational, and intolerant? I'm shocked you didn't include the word ignorant again! More examples of you insulting everyone else because they don't agree with you. More examples of you being a total and complete douchebag.

Oh and FINALLY the point I've been waiting for! YOU CLAIMED TO BE THE EDUCATED ONE! FUCKING A RIGHT MAN! Proof of your self-perceived superiority! A FUCKING PLUS FOR EFFORT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentheplayer View Post
It can hardly be prejudient to claim that @LivingForLove is ignorant since the very nature of language used proves it. Regarding your second accusation, again you misread what I wrote. I said that the language he used suggests that transgender issues is a joke but I didnít claim that he is transphobic. Thinking that transgender issues is a joke doesnít necessarily mean that one is transphobic but proves that one is ignorant. Also nowhere did I state that people who don't support transgenderism don't ever talk to transgenders. I hope you will stop putting words into my mouth in the future. You are a native speaker of English and hence I expect a higher standard of comprehension from you than @LivingForLove, whose profile suggests that his native language is Portuguese, which is why I explained the idea of irony to him. How very convenient to cry prejudient when the original and past statements make it very clear that one is prejudiced. Itís akin to Trump claiming that the immigration ban isnít a Muslim ban despite calling it as one just because the specific term was not used in the draft of the ban.
"Ignorance" tally: 6 (we got a double dip on this one! Awesome!)

So, now you're implying that Living For Love is incapable of understanding the English language because he is a non-native speaker? You want to talk about discrimination, what the fuck kind of discrimination did you pull by saying THAT shit, you fucking asswipe? I've talked to Living for Love on several occasions and seen his posts elsewhere, and not once have I ever thought he had less than an understanding of this language, nor have I ever seen proof to suggest otherwise. You're the fucking ignorant one, Ben. How dare you make accusations and assumptions against others and then turn around and get all offended when someone says some shit to you? You assume everyone is a fucking dumbass because you think you know everything there is to know! You put words into other people's mouths and then get affronted and accuse them of doing the same to you? Fuck off!

I've run out of things to quote, but I am by no means done yet with you, Ben. You are in severe need of a reality check. Not everyone is a self-entitled, silver-spoon fed prick like you. Not everyone has the same opinion as you. And you are CERTAINLY not smarter than every individual you meet or speak to. You have some serious self-evaluating to do, dude, or you're going to spend the rest of your life totally alone, with zero friends or meaning to your life, because nobody is going to want to put up with your bullshit. Nobody wants to be around an all-around asshole like you.

Also, and this goes back a few months, but fuck you for assuming to know what it's like to work for shit you want. You told me yourself, you're from a well-off family and you bragged about your superb education (which has done jack shit for you I might add) and among all the other shit, you claimed to know what it was like to work because you worked in a retail setting for what was it, like a month and a half that you said? You don't know a motherfucking thing about what it is to work, kid. You don't know what it is to go to college full time, to work a full time job and another part time job on top of that, to be so exhausted by the day's end that you just fall asleep wherever it is you sit down! You have no fucking idea what it is to struggle, to have to overcome adversity. You have zero clue what it is to experience anything of the sort, what most people do, because of how you were brought up. We should all be so fortunate. You talk to people as if they are stupid, and yet it is you who is blind. You talk about issues in the United States as if they are your own, and yet you are not from here. You expect everyone to accept your word as law, and get offended when they don't. How's this been for fucking offensive? Did I hit the right strings at all? How I've been talking to you this entire post is how you come across to everyone else, Ben. You're the reason I left VT several months ago. I couldn't stand to see one more post from you, one more tasteless comment, one more absurd claim, one more insult. I honestly feel bad for you and the future you're going to lead if you don't change some shit about the way you are, and I mean that. But quite frankly, you're a self-centered asshole, and the most polite thing I have left to say to you is fuck you.

On a final note, I would like to address the VT Admin for a moment - @ImCoolBeans @Mars @Hideous @Elysium @AmethystRose - why have none of you ever taken action against, or even warned, @bentheplayer of his actions? By all rights, he should have had action taken against him a long time ago, and quite frankly I am surprised none of you have ever said anything to him about the way he talks to the other people on these forums. He has violated your rules about arguments with other members countless times. He is not at all respectful of the opinions of other people on this forum. Honestly, it really does blow me away how none of you have done anything about this, seeing how one of the goals of this site, as I understand it, is to be a place where bullying/condescending comments/being a dick is not tolerated. Yet I find it funny to consider that, because of the nature of my post, I will most likely be the one against which there is action taken, rather than Ben, simply because I deemed it necessary to step in and tell this guy what he's about since nobody else seemed ready to. I might be in the wrong as well by the virtue of your rules, but standing up for people against rude pricks like him are what I believe is right, and I have no regrets as to the action I took. I hope that you might pay closer attention to what people say to each other, because I detect a profound lack of enforcement from this thread.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 12:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

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(snip)
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Old April 30th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

side note: mods don't publicize infractions and stuff like that, so for all you know ben could have had action taken against him for whatever reason, we just don't know because quite frankly it's none of our fucking business

also, as said before, if you really thought that he was breaking the rules, you'd report the posts and let the mods look at it quietly without making a big deal about it

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Old April 30th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: 'Transwoman' wins Female International Weightlifting Competition

This thread has gotten far out of hand and is therefore being locked.

If you believe an individual is breaking the rules, report it. Don't go on full rants and call out staff members because you believe they are not doing their job. We cannot pay attention to every single post and thread and potential rule breaker, which is why we appreciate things being reported.

Refrain from arguing or bashing others and debating in threads that are not in ROTW.

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