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Old March 15th, 2019, 11:27 AM   #1
HeyCameron
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Default Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKCN1QW05Y

I'm sure most of you have heard about these attacks by now. During Friday Prayers in Christchurch, New Zealand, four people attacked two mosques, killing almost 50 people. The ringleader of the attack, an Australian national, posted a manifesto in which he extolled white nationalist ideas and decried Muslim immigrants. He also livestreamed the attack (please no one post a link to the video). I have not seen it and will not watch it.

I know there is often not much to say when these kinds of attacks occur. Thoughts and prayers are a given, to New Zealand and Muslims everywhere. This is just a general thread about this horrific attack. Any thoughts are welcome. If we have users in New Zealand, I'd love to hear from them and how it's affected them.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 11:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

I've seen the news, absolutely horrible. Although I'm definitely no fan of Islam, that's just unacceptable. No one deserves that. I haven't seen the video either, thank goodness.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 12:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

It shows that hate and violence is everywhere and as a society we must reject those ideas and the racists assholes who promotes them. Anyone who is just gonna say thoughts and prayers instead of having a real discussion you are part of the problem, any right-wing politician who those people are part of their base and refuse to call out and condemn white nationalists you are a coward and part of the problem. Anyone from the media who doesn't call these attacks terrorism every time you talk about the event you are part of the problem.

Don't be part of the problem be part of the solution. Denounce racism, condemn white nationalist, call out those people.

Good job on to the few media outlets who are actually calling this a terrorist attack and if they catch the people who this alive I hope they will be prosecuted as terrorists. That's a good start.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

It’s just a shame that a lot of outlets won’t call this an act of terror, when it most certainly is. They’re happy to throw the word about if it was any ethnic minority committing an attack on people, but double standards act differently when it’s the ethnic minorities getting killed.

It’s just extremely unfair that nationalists will carry a very heavy negative opinion on a large group of people (in this case, Muslims) which is only proven by an extremely small percentage of that group. It’s about time we stopped racial and spiritual prejudice by now, no?
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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

The prime minister of New Zealand did call it a terrorist attack, for the record.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 02:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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It’s just a shame that a lot of outlets won’t call this an act of terror, when it most certainly is. They’re happy to throw the word about if it was any ethnic minority committing an attack on people, but double standards act differently when it’s the ethnic minorities getting killed.

It’s just extremely unfair that nationalists will carry a very heavy negative opinion on a large group of people (in this case, Muslims) which is only proven by an extremely small percentage of that group. It’s about time we stopped racial and spiritual prejudice by now, no?
Some media outlets have called it terrorism. But yes if it was Muslims going in a church and killing 50 people it wouldn't even be a question.

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The prime minister of New Zealand did call it a terrorist attack, for the record.
Our Prime Minister did the same thing following the Quebec City Mosque attack, but Alexandre Bissonnette was only charged with first degree murder. Terrorism charges were never brought up.

Calling it terrorism is a small step forward, but a bigger step would be for the suspects to actually be charged with terrorism.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 02:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

News outlets reported that he admired Serbs who were fighting against Muslim invaders during the Middle Ages, and he admired our leaders of the nineties.
We are gonna get media flak again, just like with Breivik.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 03:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Our Prime Minister did the same thing following the Quebec City Mosque attack, but Alexandre Bissonnette was only charged with first degree murder. Terrorism charges were never brought up.

Calling it terrorism is a small step forward, but a bigger step would be for the suspects to actually be charged with terrorism.
Funny you mention that, when I was hearing a news coverage on it half an hour or so ago the reporter said he would be most definitely charged with murder - the whole absence of terrorism, especially considering the far-right nationalist manifesto that was written by the terrorist.

Similarly when discussing the attack with a friend this afternoon I used the exact same analogy of “if it was a Muslim shooting in a church it’d be a completely different story” - it seems we are on the same wavelength

It’s also thought that the weapon used in the attack was signed in marker all over of when it was used in different acts of terror. Yet it’s most likely he’ll just be charged with murder? I find that strange.



Also, this is a time to critique the automatic screening system used by sites Facebook, Twitter and Youtube - they can instantly notice and block nudity and copyrighted music but it took them over 8 hours to respond to live-streams of the mosque attacks carried out? How can that work? Too often we’ve seen attacks carried out and live-streamed online with no censoring and extended cuts. My mind jumps to an event in particular but I really can’t remember what it was.

On Youtube, there’s constant reuploading of the same video to try and get past the filters.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 03:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

It is very upsetting!! I understand everyone will have differences but i can't imagine having so much hate to do such a horrible thing. i also have no desire to see the video ever! Watching it is what the terrorist wanted i am sure. To go viral.

So long and thanks for all the fish!
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Old March 15th, 2019, 04:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Also, this is a time to critique the automatic screening system used by sites Facebook, Twitter and Youtube - they can instantly notice and block nudity and copyrighted music but it took them over 8 hours to respond to live-streams of the mosque attacks carried out? How can that work? Too often we’ve seen attacks carried out and live-streamed online with no censoring and extended cuts. My mind jumps to an event in particular but I really can’t remember what it was.

On Youtube, there’s constant reuploading of the same video to try and get past the filters.
That's not new, ISIS built their terror group by posting videos on social media of themselves murdering people. You would think they would be better at quickly removing that content 5 years later.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 06:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

There is a special place in hell for terrorists, for those who slaughter people in a place of worship and those who slaughter children. This man ticks all three boxes.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 06:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

I first heard this last evening when there were "only" two dozen known dead. It's very upsetting. With all due respect to @mattsmith48's objection to it, my heart goes out to them.
We'll learn so much more about this person's motivation in the next few days, I'm sure.

I am repeatedly stunned and disappointed to hear of all the European countries which have banned the wearing of niqab's or burqa's in public and the recent Danish law about treatment of people in the Muslim 'ghettos'. These are coming from traditionally liberal countries. And the increasing incidence of antisemitism in Europe and the lack of concern about it from the general public.

As for it not being considered a terrorist act, there was also a reluctance to call the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting a terrorist act. I believe he was charged with hate crimes, but not specifically terrorism. And while it's probably not in line with the purpose of this thread, there's some validity to not considering either attack terrorism, terrible as they both were.


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Although I'm definitely no fan of Islam
That's a frightening attitude and definitely not appropriate for a thread like this at this time.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Some media outlets have called it terrorism. But yes if it was Muslims going in a church and killing 50 people it wouldn't even be a question.
If a Muslim did this we would have every media outfit under the sun screaming to high heaven about how important it is to "blame the intividual" not the group, but if a white nationalist does it the blame gets placed on the far-right as a group (even if white nationalists represent the alt-right, not the far-right) and everyone asosiated with said group ends up getting demonized by the press.

But please, tell me more about media bias against Muslims.

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The terror, which would not end for another twenty-eight years—if it ever did end—began, so far as I
know or can tell, with a boat made from a sheet of newspaper floating down a gutter swollen with
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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there'd be calls for moderate Muslims to denounce the extremists. So in this case I'll call on the "moderate far-right" (lol) to denounce anti-Muslim attacks.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:40 PM   #15
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If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there'd be calls for moderate Muslims to denounce the extremists. So in this case I'll call on the "moderate far-right" (lol) to denounce anti-Muslim attacks.
Well, I for one find it very easy to denounce the attack, and as I'm part of the "moderate far-right"(whatever that means) I don't know a single person who shares my views that wouldn't do the same.

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The terror, which would not end for another twenty-eight years—if it ever did end—began, so far as I
know or can tell, with a boat made from a sheet of newspaper floating down a gutter swollen with
rain. - Stephen King

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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
Well, I for one find it very easy to denounce the attack, and as I'm part of the moderate far-right(whatever that means) I don't know a single person who shares my views that would do the same.

I totally agree. I am a slightly right and (People don’t believe me cuz I’m gay), but no matter who you are associated with you should denounce it. It was a terrible event. The fact that our world has this vile, evil, and hate in it is truly heartbreaking for me.


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Old March 16th, 2019, 02:26 AM   #17
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there'd be calls for moderate Muslims to denounce the extremists. So in this case I'll call on the "moderate far-right" (lol) to denounce anti-Muslim attacks.
If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there would be criticism of Islam, fear of Muslims (and probably development of attitudes like @Pultost's), but I don't recall there being a public call for moderate Muslims to denounce extremists in past events perpetrated by Muslims.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 02:34 AM   #18
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If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there would be criticism of Islam.
Are you saying critisizing Islam is wrong?

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The terror, which would not end for another twenty-eight years—if it ever did end—began, so far as I
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Old March 16th, 2019, 02:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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If a Muslim had carried out the attack, there would be criticism of Islam, fear of Muslims (and probably development of attitudes like @Pultost's), but I don't recall there being a public call for moderate Muslims to denounce extremists in past events perpetrated by Muslims.
It's a fairly common response that I've come across.

The assumption seems to be that moderates have some kind of "authority" over all Muslims and need to say that the extremists are incorrect and do not represent the religion as a whole. It also seems to stem from concern that moderates might have extremist sympathies and thus they need to make it clear that they don't (that's the problematic part of it). I've seen people, after an attack is carried out by a Muslim, rant in the vein of "where are all the moderate Muslims? Why aren't they speaking out against this?"

The fact is that they often do speak out against extremists, but it's not what gets the attention of the media. Nonetheless, the idea that moderates of any group need to speak out to prove they don't "secretly agree" with the extremists is unfair.

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Old March 16th, 2019, 02:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

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Are you saying critisizing Islam is wrong?
Making an objective observation about what the religion stands for and teaches is one thing; demonizing all Muslims because of terrible actions by a few, wrongly in the name of Islam, is wrong.


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It's a fairly common response that I've come across.

tbh, I've rarely seen that.
the idea that moderates of any group need to speak out to prove they don't "secretly agree" with the extremists is unfair.
Isn't that exactly what you did in your previous post? (" I'll call on the "moderate far-right" (lol) to denounce anti-Muslim attacks.")

Does this also apply to pro-lifers when an extremist attacks an abortion clinic? From what I've seen/read from recent history, the backlash is against pro-lifers in general and a request they denounce the violent actions, something they shouldn't have to do.

I agree with you, they shouldn't have to speak out against it.
But we have people like @mattsmith48 who drag out trite platitudes like 'if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem' ("any right-wing politician who those people are part of their base and refuse to call out and condemn white nationalists you are a coward and part of the problem").

Last edited by Zika; March 16th, 2019 at 03:08 AM.
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