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View Poll Results: Did God or no?
God Created the Dinosaurs 4 19.05%
I'm religous but I don't beleive God created the dinosaurs 3 14.29%
I support the Evolution theory, and beleive they were made by a single cell 14 66.67%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 12th, 2005, 06:36 PM   #1
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Default How were the dinosaurs made?

I'm sure most of you know that I'm a religous person (Christian to be exact) therefore I'm just wondering what people think. How were the dinosaurs made? It doesn't say in the Bible that God created them, but for us religous "some" (not all) assume that God created them. Though the people that beleive in Evoltuion beleive that they were just created by a single cell.

So for the religous people did god create the Dinosaurs or did something else?

Btw: Sorry if I offend anyone about this topic, I'm just wondering!

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Old April 12th, 2005, 06:57 PM   #2
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nothing created the dinosaurs. it was the unraveling of time in space that did it
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Old April 12th, 2005, 06:58 PM   #3
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I side with Charles Darwin:

Everything evolved from simple organisms. And everything evolved with time.
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Old April 13th, 2005, 12:12 AM   #4
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im religious, but the dinousaurs were created by evolution, the only way well ever know for sure though, is when we go up to heaven, or whatever yur religion has, and ask god, or w/e yur religion has.
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Old April 13th, 2005, 09:31 AM   #5
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Everything evolved from single celled organisms, Even us. I am a sciency guy so i support those theorys.
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Old April 13th, 2005, 03:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwshc
I side with Charles Darwin:

Everything evolved from simple organisms. And everything evolved with time.
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Old April 22nd, 2005, 08:45 PM   #8
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i think god created the single cell which created all the dinasaurs.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 01:01 AM   #9
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god made the universe the universe was made to be like god so the universe expanded making planets which further expaned and made life on thos planets

Some of the most beautiful flowers are hermorphadite..................or at least thats what i read in science
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Old May 29th, 2005, 01:11 AM   #10
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The safest assumption would be Evolutionism. Everything has to evolve from something. It can't just come out of mid air.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 01:21 AM   #11
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Though why would it be the safest? hm..if you think about it, how can The Bible be here from like two thousand years ago? You can just set your mind on one thing but, what if God did create the universe? I strongly am a Christian and believe God created the Universe and blah blah blah..but what if the Evolution theory is wrong? So you see people don't know which theory is true...and..I have 100 facts that evolution is wrong ahahaha...well I meant this in the nicest way you could probably think of

P.S. have a nice day!
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Old May 29th, 2005, 06:31 AM   #12
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Show me these "facts" that its wrong?

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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:11 AM   #13
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Show me the facts

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Old May 29th, 2005, 11:48 AM   #14
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show me the facts! I would love to know how speicies were created. It really is amazing

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Old May 29th, 2005, 02:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceKeeper
Though why would it be the safest? hm..if you think about it, how can The Bible be here from like two thousand years ago? You can just set your mind on one thing but, what if God did create the universe? I strongly am a Christian and believe God created the Universe and blah blah blah..but what if the Evolution theory is wrong? So you see people don't know which theory is true...and..I have 100 facts that evolution is wrong ahahaha...well I meant this in the nicest way you could probably think of

P.S. have a nice day!
Unfortunately, back when the world was created, we didn't have a form of writing. So, all of that was assumptions. Anyway, here's an interpretation of Genesis:

Who knows how long the "days" are that were mentioned? They could've been thousands of years for each day. Perhaps millions. It isn't known.

That's how the two theories go relatively hand in hand. If you take a loose interpretation, it goes well together. However, a strict interpretation (which is physically impossible), blows everything out of preportion. Sometimes, not everything can be taken the way it's told. That's how we got our myths, not from actual events, but from things blown out of preportion.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:20 PM   #16
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Now come on this isn't fair I mean really...4 Evolutionist against 1 Christian...I need some backup..lol...Here are 10 reasons why its wrong I'll find the 100 facts to just gimme some more time..

We must first determine what we are talking about when we use the terms "Science" and "Evolution"

I. Science. According to the Oxford Dictionary science is "A branch of study which is concerned either with a connected body of demonstrated truths or with observed facts systematically classified and more or less colligated by being brought under general laws, and which includes trustworthy methods for the discovery of new truth within its own domain."

For a postulate to qualify as a scientific theory is must fulfill three basic criteria.

1. The postulate must be observable.

2. The postulate must be capable of repeatable experimental verification.

3. The postulate must withstand a falsifiability test, or an experiment must be conceived the failure of which would disprove the postulate.

Neither evolution nor creation can meet the above three criteria and thus are not theories but postulates. In fact neither are fully capable of becoming theories because of the limits of observing events that happened many years in the past.

II. Evolution. Evolution in its simplest definition simply means change over time. There are two basic evolution models in biology with which we are concerned here.

1. Microevolution. Microevolution is the limited variation that takes place in a family. s original complex gene pool. A good example of this is selective breeding. Dogs, Cows, Sugar beets 1800 6%--1878 17%, English peppered moth (Biston betularia), Fruit fly and bacteria accelerated mutation experiments.

2. Macroevolution. This is the evolution the evolutionists mean. This is the amoebae to man postulate. Evolutionists believe that all organized material came from earlier unorganized material, through enormous amounts of time and many small changes. Life itself spontaneously arose from a lower organized non-life substance and gradually through genetic mutations became all the diversity we see today. In other words mutations caused one family type to gradually change to another family type. I.e.. A

cat to a dog or a lizard to a bird etc. In fact mutations have never been observed to have been helpful to an organism and enable it to better survive in its natural state.

God blesses the creatures and bids them to multiply on the earth.

Animals have bodies and souls not spirits.

Gen. 1:24 the sixth day.

God creates the land creatures and the final crowing touch of His creation MAN.

Vs. 6 God says "Let US make man in our image." The Creatures created earlier have bodies and Souls (Creature is Nephesh or Soul).

Man alone has body, soul and spirit. He is a tripart being just as God is triune.

The image of God. What glory that must have been. The word for image does not express an exact replication but a reflection. We were never created exactly like God, but we were created with many of His attributes. At the tip of God's creation man (even though he is not what he was) is an amazing creature. We lost much at the fall.

Man has 263 bones

600 muscles

970 miles of blood vessels,

Thirty pounds or 6 quarts of blood

The heart is a pump about 4" by 6" and it:

Pumps 70 times a minute, 4,200 times per hour and 36,792,000 per year.

It moves 4oz of blood each beat, or about 16 lbs. per minute, 12 tons per day, 4000 tons per year and 240,000 tons in 60 years. Hydraulically speaking it moves 200 tons 1 ft. high each day.

The lung capacity is about 320 sq. in. but if the 600,000,000 air cells were laid out they would exceed 20,000 sq. in. or about 12 sq. ft. The lungs take in 2400 gallons of air a day.

The brain in man is about 3lbs, 2oz and woman. s is about 2lbs, 12 oz.

It contains an amazing 1010 neural cells with possible connections of nearly 1015 with 10 million nerves connecting with the rest of the body.

Using computer analogy for brain power and assuming the neural connections equal memory and computing power this would give us a memory capacity of 1015 to 1017 bits. That is roughly equal to 25 million 1 gigabyte drives.

If at any time a minimum of 10% of the neurons are firing through their many synapse and each firing is equal to a FLOP (Floating Point Operation per Second) then at minimum the brain is capable of 10 teraflops or 10 trillion operations per second. To stimulate the whole brain would require 100,000 teraflops.

DNA

DNA is one of the most information rich carriers known to man.

1 teaspoon is capable of carrying all the information in all the computers in the world with enough room left over for all the books in the library of congress.

The A-T-G-C code of DNA is a four level code with 3 compare/correct codes. It is capable of carrying and enormous amount of information forward without losing information. In comparison with computer code it is about 1016 times better to the very best computer compare/correct code today.

Man is to be fruitful and fill (not replenish) the earth. We are to understand God's processes (Science) and utilize them to subdue the earth (Technology). The rule is to be benign and not tyrannical.

Vs. 2- 2:3 sums up the creation. Note God looks upon all He created and proclaims it to be Very Good.

Creation vs. Evolution

Paley's watchmaker. Tornado in a junkyard. Or better yet a tornado in a silt bed.

Designs

1. Basic (open) system: wristwatch

2. Closed loop system: Power Steering

3. Adaptive system: Anti-skid brakes, Numerically controlled manufacturing

4. Intelligent machines: Computers

Storage/retrieval, Input/output, Processing, Language design.

5. Self repairing systems: Some software

6. Reproducing systems: ?

Complex systems cannot be approached gradually through non-functional intermediates: perfect multiple simultaneous co-adaptation is a prerequisite condition for functionality. "Automatic organization" violates the entropy laws; i.e., "paper wrote the book".

Chance is too inefficient for both time and material:

Only 1018 seconds in a 20 billion year universe or 1026 nanoseconds!!

The random organization or combination of a DNA strand of 40 A-T-G-C amino acids would occur 1 in 10141 times. Or if one iteration of combination were to occur every nanosecond for all 20 billion years there would still be 10115 chances left by the time that time ran out!!

Most biologists postulate some kind of prebiotic soup in which life occurred. These are all merely fairly wild guesses based on bias.

Problems:

1. Prebiotic soups have both left and right hand amino acids. Life chemistry demands all either left or right. (It has been said that, given an infinite amount of monkeys typing on an infinite number of typewriters, all the works of man past, present and future will be produced. However what would be the result if half of the keys on the typewriters killed the monkey?)

2. Amino Acids and Sugars are chemically incompatible. In the cell they are carefully regulated but in prebiotic soup they would wipe each other out.

3. Early atmospheres were highly oxidizing (atoms bind to oxygen) rather than reducing (atoms bind to hydrogen). In an oxidizing atmosphere the process that build up amino acids are 30 million times less efficient than in a reducing atmosphere. Prebiotic soups would contain too few amino acid precursors to overcome this inefficiency. In addition the minute synthesis would only produce Glycine.

Increasing complexity is a big problem.

I. Statistics

A. The total number of nanoseconds (1 billionth of a second) in 20 billion years is 1026

Probability of the random combination of a 40-chain amino acid is 1 in 10141

If recombination occurred every nanosecond only 1026 would be done in 20 billion years leaving undone 10115 recombinations. The average protein is a chain of 500 amino acids.

B. Morowitz, 1987. Probability of random recombination of cell that has been completely disassembled. 1 in 1010,000,000,000

C. Michael Hart, 1982,

Genesis DNA with 400 positions where any nucleotide will work 100 positions where any two will work 100 positions where only one type will work. Unrealistically optimistic assumption but. Probability of one strand working is 1 in 1090. Probability for 100 specific genes in 10 billion years is 1 in 103000

II. Laws of Thermodynamics

A. Law of Conservation

Matter and Energy are neither created nor destroyed

B. Law of Entropy

All Energy tends to a lower, less useable form.

C. Entropy precludes self organization either chemical or biological

D. These laws are true from the atomic to the cosmic.

E. Closed vs. Open systems. Some people state that the earth and sun formed a closed system in which the input of energy from the sun kept entropy at bay. This has two basic problems. Entropy still exists and much is due to the sun. Look at the paint on your house. It cracks and peels due to the sun. The second problem is related to the first. The energy from the sun is not very energetic and not organized. Unless there is a mechanism (photosynthesis) in place to capture this unorganized energy and convert it to something useful to life it will destroy life. Don. t believe me? Stay out in the sun too long with out sunblock and then see if you believe.

IV. Genetics

A. Evolution depends on many small mutations, natural selection and an enormous amount of time.

B. Mutations,

1. Somatic. Genetic change in the structure, such as skin cancer. Cannot be inherited

2. Genetic. Genetic change in the reproductive structure can be inherited.

3. Not useful. No known beneficial mutation.

4. Cannot create additional genetic material

5. Cannot account for Evolution

Dr. H.J. Miller who won a Nobel Prize on his work on mutations said:

AIt is entirely in line with the accidental nature of mutations that extensive tests have agreed in showing the vast majority of them detrimental to the organism in its job of surviving and reproducing...GOOD ONES ARE SO RARE WE CAN CONSIDER THEM ALL [email protected]

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientist, 11:331.

In fact the probability of getting five mutations in the same nucleus (good or bad) has been estimated to be 1 in 1022! If we had a population of 100 million organisms with a reproductive cycle of 1 day, the event of 5 mutations in 1 nucleus would be expected to occur once in 274 BILLION YEARS!

C. Natural Selection

1. Naturally selects against mutations,

D. Biogenesis Law - Life comes from Life

E. Mendel=s Laws, Genetics cannot explain addition of complexity

1. Cannot inherit acquired characteristics.

F. Genetic Variation

1. Dogs, Huge variety of dogs from Rottweilers to teacup Poodles has not produced anything but a dog.


2. Sugar Beet. Geneticists worked on getting the sugar content higher in the Sugar Beet but once level reached 18% they could no longer stretch the genome.

3. Peppered Moth. Pre Industrial Revolution England had white and gray version of the Peppered Moth. Trunks of birch trees was white making the gray version easier to see for the birds and the population had accordingly more white variety. At advent of the Industrial Revolution the white bark was darkened by the coal dust and suddenly the percent of gray moths increased and the percent of whites decreased. Why? Was it evolution in action? No the white moths could be seen on the trees now instead of the gray moths. They are still hatched at an approximate 50% ratio.

V. Fossil Record

A. According to Darwinian gradualistic Evolution there should be

innumerable transitional forms.

Darwin: AWhy if species have descended from other species by

insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable

transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the

species being, as we see them, well [email protected]

Darwin later said about the lack of transitional links.. this fact is Athe

most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my

[email protected]

After 160+ years transitional links found = 0, nada, zilch!

1. In 1800=s there were 4 animal phyla and a corresponding amount of transitional forms to be found. Today there is over 40 animal

Phyla.

B. Late Great Heroes of Transitional Fossils

1. Archaeopteryx

[email protected] in 1861. Sold for 36,000 Gold Marks

Forged Feather patterns

Forged Furcula (Wishbone)

2. Eohippus, Dawn Horse Series

Found in various levels in various parts of the world.

Creatively placed in a series with small multitoed horses in [email protected]

below [email protected] single toed horses in higher [email protected]

Three-toed horse is still exists in S. America as the Hyrax

3. Early Man (In order of appearance)

a. Pliopithecus

Named a hominid because it looked like a cross between the spider monkey and the gibbon, not because it looked part human.

b. Proconsul

Shown to be the extinct relative of an ape.

c. Dryopithecus

Based on only a lower jaw fragment which later became known as belonging to an extinct ape.

d. Oreopithecus (cookie man?)

Based on only teeth and pelvis remains of extinct ape

e. Ramipithecus

Partial set of teeth found in 1977?, with creative arrangement made to look similar to human.

Fossil finds in 1982 and 1988 showed Ramipithecus was extinct relative of the orangutan

f. Australopithecus Africans

Found to be the skull of a immature ape whose ape features had not fully developed.

g. Australopithecus Robustus

Ape skull with crest feature. Rejected by most of scientific Paleoanthropologists.

f. Australopithecus Boisei

Same as above.

g. Australopithecus Afarensis (Dear ole Lucy)

Based on fragments of skeletons found miles apart, at greatly varying depths and then placed together as if from one individual.

Rejected by Lord Solly Zuckerman, Authur Keith as well as the majority of the preeminent paleoanthropologists as apes whom could not walk upright.

h. Homo Erectus.

Once regarded as sub-human because its brain size was regarded

as being too small. Now it is known that its brain size is nearly the

average size of a modern European.

I. Neanderthal Man.

Found by medical experts to full human being with bone deformation caused by Arthritis Deformans, Rickets, and Fluorine toxicity. Others are indistinguishable from many modern man.

j. Cro Magnon Man.

Indistinguishable from modern man. Placed in the hall of hominids only because the associated cave drawings were thought to be [email protected]



VI. Complexity of Life

A. [email protected] not so simple

1. Many bacteria like Salmonella Escherichia Coli have motors.

8 million could fit in the cross section of human hair.

Rotates at 100,000 RPM, moving bacteria at 15 body lengths per second. Operates as an electric motor with stator and rotor segments, utilizes proton flow for energy.

2. Many bacteria are known to react to an antibacterial agent before it arrives in their area by absorbing plasmids which contain DNA with specific gene sequences that offer immunity against that specific agent.

3. DNA

4-code information package, with self-correcting properties. A-T-C-G DNA actually snips out damaged sections and replaces with the correct coded section. 1 teaspoon has more information carrying capability than all the books in the Library of Congress.

a. Code is incredibly complex and consists of

1. Nucleotides (Letters)

2. Codons or Triplets (Words)

3. Genes (Sentences)

4. Operons (Paragraphs)

5. Chromosomes (Chapters)

6. Living Organisms (Books)

b. DNA distancing studies

1. Assumed [email protected] of protein components from species to species should show the [email protected] relationships.

2. One study of Cytochrome c, used in energy production, showed the rattlesnake was most closely related to humans.

3. Each category of animal appears to be isolated and not related.

5. Cells

All cells, even the most [email protected] show an amazing complexity. Each is a finely tuned, precision machine, that performs intricate operations, millions of times without variation and automatically. Reacting to stimuli signals, the cell creates proteins, energy and repairs problems.

a. Cell is a unit.

1. Cell wall necessary for cell to function, yet evolutionists say replication chemistry preceded it.

2. Protein and Proteinase, both necessary, but must be controlled by cell mechanisms.

3. Nature produces proteins in both left and right hand forms. Life chemistry only utilizes left hand, right hand is poisonous. The cell filters out the right hand and uses the left hand proteins.

4. Sugars and proteins are incompatible together, but both are necessary for life. The cell keeps each in its proper place in the cell chemical processes.

6. Mutational change time.

a. If no change occurred in the last 4000 years in DNA sequencing in studies done on Egyptian mummies, then it is reasonable to assume that the enormous amount of change necessary for evolution could not occur in 25,000,000 years.

This is even more likely with the odds of mutational change in the Nucleus and the repair function of DNA.

b. Evolutionists say that species remain unchanged in the fossil record for an average of 10,000,000 years. If we use the same ratio as above we can assume species stability by evolution standards of of over 60,000,000 years



7. The Eye.

A...it is a considerable strain on one=s credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird=s feather) could be improved by random mutation."

Dr. Ernst Mayer, Systematics and the Origin of Species N.Y. Columbia University Press, 1942, p. 269

a. Eye massively more sophisticated than the most complex camera.

Autofocus, autoexposure, etc.

b. Lens, Cornea of transparent cells, can change its shape for correction and focus.

c. Retina

1. Best Film sensitive to 1000 to 1

Retina 10,000,000,000 to 1

Can detect 1 photon in the dark But can Aturn [email protected] the sensitivity in the day.

2. Retina cells

10,000,000 light sensitive cells in retina, packed 200,000/mm in fovea. Each cell replaces itself every 7 days.

Each cell is vastly more sophisticated than the most complex computer. Est. 10,000,000,000 calculations per second in the retina before the light signals reach the brain.

10 milliseconds is equal to processing 500 simultaneous non-linear differential equations 100 times. This job requires several minutes on a Cray. Yet the nerve cells send signals a million times slower than the computer electrical signals.

A silicon chip simulating the retina vs. the retina

Chip Retina

Wt. 100 lbs. .02 gm

Vol. 10,000 in3.0003 in3

Power 300 watts .0001 watts

d. How we see.

Eye and optical cortex of the brain translate differences in amplitude and frequency of light into real time, 3 dimensional color vision.

8. The Brain

Each neuron connects with at least 5 others forming a vast information processing and storage unit.

a. The brain has an average of 1010 neural cells with a possible connective net of 1015 possible connections and 10 million nerves connecting with the rest of the body.

b. Using computer analogy for brain capacity and assuming neural connections equal memory and computing power:

1. Memory capacity of 1015 to 1017 bits is roughly equal to 25 million 1 gigabyte drives.

2. If at any time a minimum of 10% of the neurons are firing through their synapse and each firing is equal to a FLOP (Floating point operation per second) then at minimum the brain is capable of 10 teraflops or 10 trillion operations per second. To stimulate the whole brain would be equal to 100,000 teraflops!

VII Evolution is illogical

A. If everything is a process of random change over time, then our thoughts are nothing more than random events and our discussion about evolution meaningless.

B. Evolutionists argue that similarity of design proves evolution. But similarity of design more logically points to a designer. If all life came from a single set of genetic instructions of a cell 4.5 billion years ago then we would not see the variety we see today.

E. Design naturally argues for a designer. Just as a watch argues for a watchmaker the infinitely more complex wrist it rests on so argues for a designer.

D. Evolutionists argue that organisms are suited for their environment because they evolved into it. It is more logical to say that they were created for their environment because many different species live in each environment and interact with it unique ways. If each evolved we would see fewer species because natural selection would eliminate those who were less efficient.

E. If we all came from the same primordial cell we would all be cannibals by the act of eating a carrot or a steak.

F. Evolution is a faith of the small and crude changing into the big and complex. It is true the small seed or baby grows larger and more complex in a temporary reversal of entropy, but the seed and baby both come from adults in an entropy equalizing, recursive process. The seed and the baby are hardly crude either, both are amazing in complexity in their internal DNA coding fully equal to the adults.

G. If as evolutionist say our Aselfish [email protected] are geared for only survival and the passing on of our genetic code, how is it we have need for love, friendship, altruism, etc. Why would one give up his life for a friend or even stranger?

VIII Evolution has serious moral consequences.

A. Evolution is racist. It is interesting how the artists make early man look Negroid in its attempt to make them look [email protected] The theory says we are all constantly evolving and lead to the belief that the white man had made it along the evolutionary path a little farther. This has lead to the theory of Aryan superiority of Nazism, the elitist philosophy of Marxism and promoted the denigration of Jews and peoples of color.

B. Embryonic recapitulation or Ontogeny recapitulates Phylogeny is a bankrupt theory of Ernst Haeckel that says that the embryo goes through the evolutionary steps. I.e. invertebrate, to amphibian, to mammal, to human. This has lead to the acceptance of abortion as just the removal of the Aproduct of [email protected] which was not fully human anyway.

C. Evolution has caused us to devalue human life at the expense [email protected] If we are nothing but random bunches of genes we have no more right to life than the worm.

IX. Evidences that point to a young earth and cosmos point out that evolution doesn=t have enough time.



A. Missing Neutrinos.

1. Theory of stellar evolution says suns in early stage produce energy by gravitational contraction. Once this heats up to about 10,000,0000 F fusion starts. This process takes from 100,000 to 500,000 years depending on mass. The process of fusion releases neutrinos in its process. The trouble is we cannot detect but about a third of the amount predicted. This indicates we have a much younger sun than 4.5 billion years.



C. Problems with Radiometric dating

1. Eight assumptions

a. Beginning conditions known

b. Ratio of Daughter to natural

c. Constant decay rate

d. No leaching of parent

e. No leaching of daughter

f. No addition to parent

g. No addition to daughter

h. All assumption valid for billions of years.

2. Recent measurements of radiogenic argon and helium contents

of 200 year old lava flows yielded dates of 22,000,000 years.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

D. Light

Did light take 20 billion years to get across the universe?

1. Setterfield, Montgomery, study of speed of light measurements over 1600 years yielded a hypothesis that light has been slowing down. Their calculations show that the slowdown has been following a cosecant squared curve and would have been 30% faster in Jesus time, 200% in King David 400% in Abraham and 10,000,000 times faster 6000 years ago.

2. Supergravity theory says light emanates from the vibration of the superstrings through the 5th dimension. If this is true, light doesn=t have to follow a straight line in space, but may follow a Reimannian curve and could traverse the 20 billion light years in about 20 days.

E. The moon has a molten core and a magnetic field. These should have been lost in a max. of 2,000,000 years.

F. Mountains of Venus

1. Maat Mons is higher and steeper than Mt. Everest. Surface temp of Venus is 9000 F. Mountains should have slumped.

2. Mountains of Earth [email protected] on the substrate because they have a density of 2.7 gm/cm3 while the substrate density is 3.3 gm/cm3. The Magellan probe showed the mountains of Venus are as dense as the substrate showing that the heat of the surface hasn=t penetrated to the substrate yet.

G. Missing mass

According to the popular Big Bang theory=s assumption of gravity about 90% to 95% of the mass of the universe is missing. If one assumes a much younger universe and a different gravitational coupling constant component (also based on the light constant) we don=t need the missing mass for the formation of the universe.

H. Anomalous fossils

1. Polystrate fossils, or fossils of trees or other artifacts that pass through many layers. Evolutionists say it takes millions of years, or longer for the layers to form so what is a tree doing jutting through all those layers?!

2. Human artifacts

a. Encased in Coal - thimble, spoon, iron pot, iron instrument, 8k gold chain, a alloy bell, and a metallic vessel inlaid with silver.

b. Imbedded in deeply buried rocks - nails, screw, strange coin, clay figurine, hammer as well as other objects of obvious human origin.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:28 PM   #17
Anonymous
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This is a 100 reasons why the creation "is" right...if you want all of tehm go here http://www.stands2reason.com/reason1.htm

The heavens declare the glory of God;

And the firmament shows His handiwork.

- Psalms 19:1 (NKJV)

For since the creation of the world God's invisible

qualities - his eternal power and divine nature -

have been clearly seen, being understood from what

has been made, so that men are without excuse.

- Romans 1:20 (NIV)

Creation is a natural revelation that something or someone very powerful made us and our universe. The scientific evidence is almost overwhelming in its indication that at some point in time, or before time, life and the worlds did not exist. We believe that a cause ALWAYS preceeds an effect. Therefore creation must have had a primary cause. Common sense tells us that we are right in this assumption and therefore we really are without excuse to doubt the existence of a Creator.

Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God's dominion over the earth?

- Job 38:33 (NIV)


Everywhere we look we see pattern, design and order. The beautiful construction of a snow flake, the orbiting dance of incomprehensibly huge star systems, the precision and minute perfection of molecular structures, the intelligent layout of our genetic codes; the list is endless and convicting. Again, we are without excuse if we just mindlessly accept all of these unspoken arguments with a shrug of our mental shoulders. The order in our universe screams for our attention and points to God’s handiwork.

We are fortunate to live at a time when science seems to validate daily what our ancestors took for granted - that the perfect order and balance of nature indicates the careful and loving craftsmanship of a great Designer.


Only the Bible gives a reasonable explanation of creation.


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

- Genesis 1:1(NKJV)


Science meets an impasse at 10 -43 seconds (less than 1 second after creation). There is no way to see before this moment or to recreate it. Theory takes over without even the prospect of testing the validity of the theory. Some religions/cultures ascribe to myths of the cyclic nature of Nature. In other words they beg the question - they do not have to solve the problem of who created time and matter. Some scientists promote unending cyclic theories of expanding/contracting creations, or a steady state that requires no Beginning, or infinite numbers of parallel universes. Those who believe in the undeniable simplicity of Genesis 1:1 have no problem to solve. The Universe is the product of a Supreme Being who has chosen to remain invisible except for the special creation that attests to His presence. The creation is the ultimate witness.




Men of all cultures share a moral law. Where could that universal standard have come from?


(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

- Romans 2:14,15 (niv)



Men just naturally know if certain behaviors and beliefs are good or bad.

See CS Lewis for argument.

Reason #5


There is just too much apparent design

in the universe to credit to chance.




If this life were a novel - anyone reading it would quickly grasp how much it has been 'set up' - it could not have been constructed by a random process. Foods just right to sustain man and animals. Air just proportionate for organic survival. Just the right amount of sunlight, ultraviolet light, xrays, atmospheric shielding, gravity, electromagnetic forces, ad infinitim. EVERYTHING is detailed just right for mankind. How is that life is so well balanced between birth and death? Why is there organized life forms at all? What wound life up to begin with?

Reason #6


Man could not have created God.



I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

- Galatians 1 11,12

"It's a religion you couldn't have guessed."

- CS Lewis in The Case for Christianty

The plot is incredibly unbelievable. An all powerful Being creates an intelligent animal, befriends him, places him in paradise, and is in turn betrayed by him. So to set the man right with Him, He instigates sacrifice. The man falls into error and worships the creation thus spurning the Creator. Still God begs and pleads the man to come back to Him. He even sends his own Son as a final sacrifice to end all sacrifices and once for all set man in a right relationship with Himself. Thus is born the Church of the true children of God - the lovers of God and truth - the followers of Christ and The Way.

Yes, man may have created such a plot - but could he have conspired History as a witness to such a fiction?

#46
All cultures require the death of a man-killing animal.

#47
The Bible prophesies that there will always be poor people.

#48
The inexplicable nature of Christ.

#49
If the moon were a little larger, smaller, further or closer or not present, the earth would experience chaotic seasonal patterns.

#50
God provides a place for man to cast his worries.

#51
Jesus foretold other men would claim to be the Messiah.

#52
Peter prophesied that we would always have scoffers among us.

#53
Science and religion can exist harmoniously.

#54
The Bible states that men long for eternity.

#55
Evolution seems to be impossible.

#56
The Bible contains the Truth. All else claiming to be doctrine is not the Truth.

#57
No other world religion is as exclusive as Christianity.

#58
The Bible was written by more than 40 authors over a 1500-year period - how could it be so consistent?

#59
The complexity in nature can only be the work of a designer.

#60
All men swear by God.

#61
Some of the greatest idol makers in history felt they had missed one.

#62
Matthew prophesied that the gospel would be taught to the whole world.

#63
The perfection of the scriptures.

#64
The Bible gives information about this life, a heavenly life and life in hell. The descriptions have a feel of reality about them. Jesus seems to know what He is talking about.

#65
God is love.

#66
More cultures embrace Christianity than any other religion.

#67
Men agree with the Bible that our spirits live on after we die.

#68
The pre-scientific knowledge of the sea - how did the writer of Job know?

#69
The Bible speaks against idolatry at a time when the prevailing cultural practice was towards idol worship.

#70
Zechariah the prophet foretold Jesus riding into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey, 400 years before Jesus was born.

#71
Even our present day heroes declare the glory of God.

#72
Jesus foretold that he would be rejected.

#73
The vulnerability of life.

#74
Jesus is a God that cares for men.

#75
The complexity of a man's body requires the simplest explanation for its existence.

#76
God calls out to the weak and helpless - not the strong.

#77
God is light.

#78
God is not dead yet.

#79
No-thing satisfies.

#80
Christianity survives even in the face of death.

#81
Christians are not fighters.

#82
Future archaeological discoveries will continue to verify Biblical accuracy.

#83
Christianity was first given to the Jews and then the remaining peoples of the world, the Gentiles.

#84
God is compared to light - the most perfect and pure energy where even time is not a limitation.

#85
Life developed soon after the earth cooled 4 billion years ago, too soon for evolution to have taken place.

#86
The promise is glorious!

#87
God can only be found by searchers.

#88
Jews are converting to Christianity.

#89
Ask a computer if there is a God.

#90
I am concerned that my future-self will condemn me if I do not profess a belief in God now.

#91
Truth is hard work.

#92
Life is a race.

#93
The enormity of the Universe, if by design, requires an enormous creator. The Bible speaks of such a creator.

#94
There are more arguments for God than against.

#95
Seeing Saturn through a department store telescope.

#96
The number of intelligent men and women who believe in God.

#97
God treats us as children, not slaves.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM   #18
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Read all of it if you want, but thats just to prove I did do my research ^.^.

P.S. please have a nice day, and remember I am not forcing my religion just simply debating ^.^...Peace
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Old May 29th, 2005, 04:35 PM   #19
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NOTHING YOU SAID PROVES JACK SHIT BECAUSE ALL OF YOUR EVIDENCE COMES FROM THE BIBLE
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Old May 29th, 2005, 04:53 PM   #20
Gothic_Knight
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Half of those reasons have nothing to do with anything...honestly, read them over, and tell me what each one has to do with Evolutionism vs. Creationism.
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