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Old March 13th, 2019, 10:11 AM   #1
mattsmith48
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Default What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Subject as been in the news lately because of a bunch of fucking idiots causing a measles outbreak.

Italy's response to this is to ban unvaccinated children and fine parents.

I have two issues with this,

1. Parents endangering the life of children is only punishable by a €500 fine, which can be a lot of money for some people but still.

2. Best way to fight the stupidity of your population is with education. Preventing kids from having an education is how you have voters later believing crazy conspiracy theories vaccines cause autism, or that climate change is a Chinese hoax, or the theory of evolution is the work of the devil, or that tax cuts pay for themselves.

So what is your solution to fight these people?

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Old March 13th, 2019, 10:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
You support vaccinations but want to ban vaccinated children and good parents? What kind of mad man are you?!?!?

My opinion, leave them be. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about. Education is also fine, but simply accusing anti-vaxxers of being conspiracy theorists or making it a partisan issue (*cough* your point #2 *cough*) is going to do nothing but embolden them.

Last edited by PlasmaHam; March 13th, 2019 at 11:02 AM.
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Old March 13th, 2019, 11:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Put them all on an island and let them have their unvaccinated paradise?

It used to be that the number of anti-vaxxers wasn't enough to have a significant negative effect on society, but now that measles outbreaks are actually occurring due to lack of vaccination, I think it's fair to say that anti-vaxxers have gone from being an ignorable fringe to being a genuine problem.

I agree that a solution isn't easy. You can't force a needle on someone. But you can educate, you can have penalties for not vaccinating (such as unvaccinated children not being able to attend public schools, etc.). But certainly, being aggressive and threatening about it won't encourage anyone to vaccinate.

Unfortunately some people are just prone to not trust anything they are told to do, especially by the government. Maybe reverse psychology would work. Have the government say "vaccines are bad" then the anti-government people will be none the wiser! Yes, that should be fool-proof. /joke

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Old March 13th, 2019, 11:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
You support vaccinations but want to ban vaccinated children and good parents? What kind of mad man are you?!?!?
Thanks for pointing out my mistake

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Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
My opinion, leave them be. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about. Education is also fine, but simply accusing anti-vaxxers of being conspiracy theorists or making it a partisan issue (*cough* your point #2 *cough*) is going to do nothing but embolden them.
Anti-vaxxers are conspiracy theorist, believing it cause autism or that they are part of a government plot to control people's mind or whatever other bullshit they tell themselves even though it goes against every scientific facts on the subjects is a conspiracy theory by definition.

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Old March 13th, 2019, 11:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Subject as been in the news lately because of a bunch of fucking idiots causing a measles outbreak.

Italy's response to this is to ban unvaccinated children and fine parents.

I have two issues with this,

1. Parents endangering the life of children is only punishable by a 500 fine, which can be a lot of money for some people but still.

2. Best way to fight the stupidity of your population is with education. Preventing kids from having an education is how you have voters later believing crazy conspiracy theories vaccines cause autism, or that climate change is a Chinese hoax, or the theory of evolution is the work of the devil, or that tax cuts pay for themselves.

So what is your solution to fight these people?
Basically anti-vaxxers are stupid and ignorant and the shoudn't be allowed to have kids, because when they decide not to vaccinate their sons they not only put their child at risk but also put at risk others kids that cannon't be vaccinated (for example because they are immunosuppressed).
Basically the solution should be to remove their parental authority
so that they cannot harm others children in addition to their own
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Old March 13th, 2019, 02:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

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Basically anti-vaxxers are stupid and ignorant and the shoudn't be allowed to have kids, because when they decide not to vaccinate their sons they not only put their child at risk but also put at risk others kids that cannon't be vaccinated (for example because they are immunosuppressed).
Basically the solution should be to remove their parental authority
so that they cannot harm others children in addition to their own
So, would you be against a proposal saying that your country can be the arbitrator of if a couple should have kids or not, if their parenting might indirectly be harmful to others. And that if so your country has full authority to separate kids from their otherwise law-abiding and capable parents?
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Old March 13th, 2019, 03:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Maybe giive higher tax credits, allowances for parents whose kids have bsen vacinated and explain it that the unvacinated kids are likey to have more money spent on them when they are ill with measles etc. Guess that only works where health care is free,
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Old March 13th, 2019, 03:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
You support vaccinations but want to ban vaccinated children and good parents? What kind of mad man are you?!?!?

My opinion, leave them be. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about. Education is also fine, but simply accusing anti-vaxxers of being conspiracy theorists or making it a partisan issue (*cough* your point #2 *cough*) is going to do nothing but embolden them.
I agree with the education part. A large part of the whole anti vaxxer thing is from ignorance and lack of education.

But the first part where you said if youre vaccinated, you have nothing to worry about isnt true. Viruses and diseases, take for example the flu, can mutate and become stronger. And also, it can affect those who have immunodeficiency and/or are allergic to certain vaccines. Along with those, it can harm newborns and young babies who are not yet vaccinated and are still vulnerable.

We should be taking advantage of modern medicine to eliminate, or as closely elimate, preventable diseases and viruses.

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Old March 13th, 2019, 05:23 PM   #9
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Old March 13th, 2019, 08:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

We have to keep in mind, however wrong the anti-vaxxers are, they believe they are right based on misinformation and fear. Education and instances like the recent measles outbreak should begin to turn the light on reality for these folks.

And now even those of us that have been vaccinated are indeed in danger for the exact reason Sailor Mars brings up. I forget what it’s called but there exists a tipping point where having a few unvaccinated individuals will not impact the larger population, but with so many anti-vaxxers in certain areas the tipping point has been exceeded, thus the outbreak. For that reason they are endangering the general public and should be held responsible. How is the hard question.

We can only eliminate these dangers by eradicating this movement.

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Old March 13th, 2019, 11:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Subject as been in the news lately because of a bunch of fucking idiots causing a measles outbreak.

Italy's response to this is to ban unvaccinated children and fine parents.

I have two issues with this,

1. Parents endangering the life of children is only punishable by a €500 fine, which can be a lot of money for some people but still.

2. Best way to fight the stupidity of your population is with education. Preventing kids from having an education is how you have voters later believing crazy conspiracy theories vaccines cause autism, or that climate change is a Chinese hoax, or the theory of evolution is the work of the devil, or that tax cuts pay for themselves.

So what is your solution to fight these people?
Vax the anti-vaxxers. Here in Serbia it is forced. If you do not vaccinate your child, cannit go to school, school must be attended by law, so you essentially break two laws, and I think that every year you do not send your child to school, you get fined.

I like the idea of getting them all on one island. I might advocate causing a plague or measles on purpose there just to prove a point. If they remain ignorant, we can always unleash TBC on them.

Also, there are the Sentinel Islands, the most undisturbed islands in the world. The UN has banned any interaction with the natives because literally the common cold can cause an epidemic and mass death. Like, they are literally an unvaxed society. They literally cannot contact with anyone because of that.

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Old March 14th, 2019, 01:20 AM   #12
mattsmith48
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
So, would you be against a proposal saying that your country can be the arbitrator of if a couple should have kids or not, if their parenting might indirectly be harmful to others. And that if so your country has full authority to separate kids from their otherwise law-abiding and capable parents?
A parent that purposely endanger the live of their children risking them of contracting a potentially disease is not really what I would call a capable parent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgconrad23 View Post
We have to keep in mind, however wrong the anti-vaxxers are, they believe they are right based on misinformation and fear. Education and instances like the recent measles outbreak should begin to turn the light on reality for these folks.

And now even those of us that have been vaccinated are indeed in danger for the exact reason Sailor Mars brings up. I forget what its called but there exists a tipping point where having a few unvaccinated individuals will not impact the larger population, but with so many anti-vaxxers in certain areas the tipping point has been exceeded, thus the outbreak. For that reason they are endangering the general public and should be held responsible. How is the hard question.

We can only eliminate these dangers by eradicating this movement.
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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
Vax the anti-vaxxers. Here in Serbia it is forced. If you do not vaccinate your child, cannit go to school, school must be attended by law, so you essentially break two laws, and I think that every year you do not send your child to school, you get fined.

I like the idea of getting them all on one island. I might advocate causing a plague or measles on purpose there just to prove a point. If they remain ignorant, we can always unleash TBC on them.
Well that isn't cruel and unusual punishment at all.

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
Also, there are the Sentinel Islands, the most undisturbed islands in the world. The UN has banned any interaction with the natives because literally the common cold can cause an epidemic and mass death. Like, they are literally an unvaxed society. They literally cannot contact with anyone because of that.
The issue with the Sentinelese is more that they are incredibly territorial and have tried to kill everyone who has approached their island. So even if interaction wasn't banned killing them off would still be incredibly difficult.

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Old March 14th, 2019, 05:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Here the government is thinking about not letting unvaccinated children go to daycare and reducing the child benefits the parents get. And educating people, of course.

The problem is that anti-vaxxers get their information from pictures and memes on Facebook and they see education by the government as manipulation. Those people have a really warped view on reaility.
There are a thousand studies that say that vaccinations do not cause autism, but they choose to ignore them, because there once was one (1) studies that said vaccinations DO cause autism, even though that studies has been proven fake and the results were fabricated.

Anti-vaxxers are incredibly stupid and selfish, and when they don't act sensibly and vaccinate their children voluntarily, they should be forced to.
The problem is that the parents don't suffer; the children do.

It is ridiculous that having to force people to vaccinate is necessary in 2019.

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Old March 14th, 2019, 06:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

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The issue with the Sentinelese is more that they are incredibly territorial and have tried to kill everyone who has approached their island. So even if interaction wasn't banned killing them off would still be incredibly difficult.
A plague-infected rat would beg to disagree. I mean it would be enough that a boat runs aground there and one of the sailors has the flu or something worse.

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Old March 14th, 2019, 11:34 PM   #15
mattsmith48
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

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A plague-infected rat would beg to disagree. I mean it would be enough that a boat runs aground there and one of the sailors has the flu or something worse.
Unless they actually step foot on the island it shouldn't really be an issue.

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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
You support vaccinations but want to ban vaccinated children and good parents? What kind of mad man are you?!?!?

My opinion, leave them be. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about. Education is also fine, but simply accusing anti-vaxxers of being conspiracy theorists or making it a partisan issue (*cough* your point #2 *cough*) is going to do nothing but embolden them.
First of all, the quote about Italy is not correct - they agreed to ban UNvaccinated children from the schools. Second, no they will not be left alone as they endanger surrounding people (even those vaccinated). There was a case not so long ago that kid got tetus disease in US first time in decades and it's all because of moronic parents. Then there is increase of sick with meningitis and polio... It is only matter of time when something more serious will occur if these morons won't be stopped at once. My solution, strip off their parental rigjts and send them to jail for some time...
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Old March 18th, 2019, 09:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: What to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

In short-term you would need to make sure the safety of others from harm of those who are more at the risk of getting infected or diseased; for example by means of restriction or even quarantine.

In long-term, there are many things that you would need to look into. Your educational programs, your social and legal infrastructures, maybe even your political system.
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