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Old October 28th, 2006, 07:25 PM   #1
Phantom
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Default Guns!!!

Ok lets debate gun laws.
--------------------------------------------
My opinion as I am sure you guys know is we need guns.
I will now explain why with various reasons.
----------------------------------------------------
Guns don't kill people people kill people.
Guns are necessary to defend yourself with.
There are MANY more GOOD people out there than bad people.
Guns WILL NOT stop crime. If somebody wants to kill you they WILL kill you, whether its a knife, baseball bat or whatever.
Criminals will ALWAYS get guns no matter what. Look at Canada. Criminals have tons of guns because they simply don't follow the law and never will.
Yet the civilians in Canada are defenseless.
If good people don't have guns they CANNOT protect themselves.
If somebody broke into your house with either an illegal gun or a knife, if you don't have a gun you basically have to fight them toe to toe.
Did you know guns deter crime? Criminals are more afraid to be shot by the home owner than get caught by the police.
Imagine this. Every woman has a nice little gun that they keep with them at all times and criminals know this.
Do you think there would be any more rape?
I know I would not want to mess with a woman pointing a gun at me.
Well that is just some of my arguments.

Debate away.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Guns!!!

the easier it is to get guns the more people will get them and the more they will be used and gun crime will increase. if you have a gun it means you intention to use it. say for example you hear a noise downstairs in the nite, you get your gun stroll on down and fire at what you see. turns out to be a relative coming home late. people make stupid mistakes and do not have the relevant training to deal with a lethal weapon like that.

we have very strict gun laws here, like it would be virtually impossible for me to get one, simply because i dont need one and i wouldnt be allowed one unless i could prove i actually needed one.

we also have an unarmed police force (we do have an armed division though), and look at our gun problems? i am not afraid to walk down my town at nite afraid someone will attack me with a gun.

guns dont deter crime, it makes it worse.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 07:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Guns!!!

What if someone attacks you with a knife or a bat?
lol kinda defeats the purpose of not having guns.
I HIGHLY doubt you carry around a bat or similar weapon and would be able to fight toe to toe with a criminal.
If someone breaks into your house at night your dead your defenseless.
Guns deter crime that is a FACT allow me to bring up some graphs.
Basically in the US states that banned guns crime went up.
States that didn't Ban guns, the crime stayed the same or went down.
Read my example about if all women had guns.
If you have a gun that doesn't mean you are going to walk down your street and start killing people LOL that is the most stupid argument that I hear from anti gun people.
The argument about shooting your relative is also null.
This is why we have gun safety.
If someone breaks into MY house, you bet they are going to get shot.
If I didn't have a gun I would be at the mercy of them, they could possibly kill me with a knife or whatever they have.
Police are useless they take way to long to show up.
You CAN'T be serious that your police doesn't have guns!
Wow they must get the shit kicked out of them by anybody that has an illegal gun or a fricken bat.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 07:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: Guns!!!

i am deadly serious we have an unarmed police force, and you give me all these examples of crime going down. i just look at Ireland, guns are very hard to get hold of and we dont have a massive crime rate.

just as a side note, if someone were to attack me i would use my knowledge of karate to defend myself and also my 26 inch telescopic steel baton which i so happen to keep in my bag. and if someone were to attack me in my home god help them, i have thing for knives so wouldnt be the most intelligent thing to come into my house without an invitation.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar View Post
i am deadly serious we have an unarmed police force, and you give me all these examples of crime going down. i just look at Ireland, guns are very hard to get hold of and we dont have a massive crime rate.

just as a side note, if someone were to attack me i would use my knowledge of karate to defend myself and also my 26 inch telescopic steel baton which i so happen to keep in my bag. and if someone were to attack me in my home god help them, i have thing for knives so wouldnt be the most intelligent thing to come into my house without an invitation.
Ok I will find the graphs.
Ok alex your what 17. You would get your ass kicked.
No offense but you could not stand up to a fully grown man.
Knives will do you no good. You would have to fight toe to toe.
Karate? Don't make me laugh. Steel baton, lol dosn't help you if the guy has a bat which is a very common weapon.
And besides guns are fun to shoot and people hunt with them ( I don't because I don't like to shoot animals)

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Guns!!!

no i am 19. i am also 6'1 and i would have generally the build of a rugby player. i would personally consider myself as fully grown a man as i am going to get.

i am pretty good at taking someone down, and a baton is just as good as bat. its the same standard as some police forces carry. a tactical strike would break bones even kill.

guns are not fun.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar View Post
no i am 19. i am also 6'1 and i would have generally the build of a rugby player. i would personally consider myself as fully grown a man as i am going to get.

i am pretty good at taking someone down, and a baton is just as good as bat. its the same standard as some police forces carry. a tactical strike would break bones even kill.

guns are not fun.
So I suppose you would rather fight toe to toe than just shoot the guy?
What if there was more than one?
Well that defeats that argument.
Here's some nice info. I am going to find more
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2005_07...h_archive.html

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Guns!!!

i wouldnt want to shoot anyone, because there is a greater chance you would kill them.

if there is more than one then i am outnumbered and thats the end of that. a gun really wouldnt make a difference with a lot of people. you just end up getting in more trouble.

as for that info you posted i am not going to read it because it is totally biased.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Guns!!!

LOL its biased!
LOL so they just MADE up those story's!
LOL Alex you amaze me.
O and
you don't look 6'1 with the build of a rugby player, but maybe you are that is not a pic of your whole body.
If you are outnumbered and have a gun you can still defend yourself BECAUSE GUNS HAVE MORE THAN ONE SHOT.
You can hold up to like 20 45 rounds.
Believe me ONE of those giant pieces of lead will put you down HARD.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Last edited by redcar; October 28th, 2006 at 08:21 PM.
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: Guns!!!

firstly, i dont want to see a picture of me appearing in any of your posts again.

ok i am sitting down and you only see from about my shoulders up... of course u will be able to tell my height!!!!!

and one of these giant pieces of lead will kill someone as well.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar View Post
firstly, i dont want to see a picture of me appearing in any of your posts again.

ok i am sitting down and you only see from about my shoulders up... of course u will be able to tell my height!!!!!

and one of these giant pieces of lead will kill someone as well.
?
did I offend you or something?
Still I can almost guarantee you would get your ass kicked, especially if there is more than one guy.
Are you talking about your baton?
I think I would feel more confident with my 45 than a long metal stick
If I have a bat and you have a bat its a brawl.
Whoever is stronger and tougher is going to win.
And chances are you are not the stronger tougher one.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Guns!!!

i dont like pictures of me so i dont like seeing them in peoples posts.

and i was referring to you saying...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
Believe me ONE of those giant pieces of lead will put you down HARD.
and not my baton.

but believe me my baton would put you down hard.

and why do you say that the chances are that i would be the weaker of my attacker?

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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar View Post
i dont like pictures of me so i dont like seeing them in peoples posts.

and i was referring to you saying...

and not my baton.

but believe me my baton would put you down hard.

and why do you say that the chances are that i would be the weaker of my attacker?
Dude your 19. I doubt you are going to be able to stand up to a hardened criminal. I am not calling you weak or anything.
Your batton has a reach of what 3.5 feet. You would have to hit them in the head. Your batton travels at about 20 feet per second with a hiting mass of about 2 pounds. A 45 has a range of about 60 yards and travels about 900 feet per second with a hiting weight of about 400 grains and will go into you.
You do the math. Plus a 45 is alot smaller.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
Ok lets debate gun laws.
--------------------------------------------
My opinion as I am sure you guys know is we need guns.
I will now explain why with various reasons.
----------------------------------------------------
Guns don't kill people people kill people.
Guns are necessary to defend yourself with.
There are MANY more GOOD people out there than bad people.
Guns WILL NOT stop crime. If somebody wants to kill you they WILL kill you, whether its a knife, baseball bat or whatever.
Criminals will ALWAYS get guns no matter what. Look at Canada. Criminals have tons of guns because they simply don't follow the law and never will.
Yet the civilians in Canada are defenseless.
If good people don't have guns they CANNOT protect themselves.
If somebody broke into your house with either an illegal gun or a knife, if you don't have a gun you basically have to fight them toe to toe.
Did you know guns deter crime? Criminals are more afraid to be shot by the home owner than get caught by the police.
Imagine this. Every woman has a nice little gun that they keep with them at all times and criminals know this.
Do you think there would be any more rape?
I know I would not want to mess with a woman pointing a gun at me.
Well that is just some of my arguments.

Debate away.

I know that whole thing about guns dont kill peope, people kill people...but remember people kill people by using guns.

And I dont remember Guns being necessary to defend oneself, there are many ways to defend yourself.

If there are many more GOOD people than Bad people as you put it, why do we "need" guns?

If someone broke into your house and you just shoot them, you will go to jail. In order to claim self defense the intruder must be coming toward you with the intent to kill or harm.

If Guns dont stop crime, again why do we need a gun? Just to have it?

I like how you use capitals to strengthen your point, and make it seem like fact.

Yes guns can deter crime? But if the crime is deterred tthen isnt the crime eventually stopped? and didnt u say Guns will not stop crime?

Hell yea there would be more rape? If every woman had a gun, do u honestly believe that rape would just vanish? decrease maybe, but it will still happen, even if the woman had a gun

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Old October 28th, 2006, 09:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dante~ View Post
Quote:
I know that whole thing about guns dont kill peope, people kill people...but remember people kill people by using guns
. I can kill you with a knife (not that I ever would). Whats your point

Quote:
And I don't remember Guns being necessary to defend oneself, there are many ways to defend yourself.
O yes just whip out your fancy baton and go toe to toe with the assailant

Quote:
If there are many more GOOD people than Bad people as you put it, why do we "need" guns?
Because there will always be criminals. Even if there are more good people than bad.

Quote:
If someone broke into your house and you just shoot them, you will go to jail. In order to claim self defense the intruder must be coming toward you with the intent to kill or harm.
If they have a weapon which they most likely do you can. You could also shoot them when they draw a weapon or try to hurt you.

Quote:
If Guns dint stop crime, again why do we need a gun? Just to have it?
No to protect yourself.
~Dante~ your arguments are making no points and are basically just ramblings.

Quote:
I like how you use capitals to strengthen your point, and make it seem like fact.
Its to emphasis. Some of the stuff I say in my arguments are facts and have been proven.

Quote:
Yes guns can deter crime? But if the crime is deterred then isn't the crime eventually stopped? and didn't u say Guns will not stop crime?
? Guns deter crime FACT. Everybody doesn't have a gun and not all crimes are violence related.

Quote:
Hell yea there would be more rape? If every woman had a gun, do u honestly believe that rape would just vanish? decrease maybe, but it will still happen, even if the woman had a gun
If every woman had a gun rape would decrease dramatically. How many women would be saved of death or extreme physiological problems simply because anti gun people didn't get their way and take away guns.
O and incase you didn't know the first thing Hitler did was take away the peoples guns so they would be easier to take over.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 10:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Hunters have the right to hunt. Keep the long rifles and shotguns, they are fine. handguns should be illegal. hgey are hard to aim, you cant hunt with them, their only purpose is killing. Police officers only.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 10:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Handguns are great for home defense and are fun to shoot.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 28th, 2006, 10:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Guns!!!

my arguments are making pints, its showing the holes in your agument. You go and put ur views in everything and then call it fact, you constantly do it.

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Old October 28th, 2006, 10:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Dante~ View Post
my arguments are making pints, its showing the holes in your agument. You go and put ur views in everything and then call it fact, you constantly do it.
No I don't you really have to read more carefully.
They are not making points, well most of them aren't.
Quote:
If Guns dint stop crime, again why do we need a gun? Just to have it?
This is what I am talking about

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old October 29th, 2006, 12:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Guns!!!

Guns should be banned. There should be designated hunting areas where you get whatever gun you want when you enter, and you leave it there when you exit, a license should be required to go to said hunting area. Police officers should be armed with bear mace and those club things, and damnit what are they called again, nvm, along with a taser in their car, possibly a beanbag gun. The swat team should have to check out and check in weapons, limited to semi-auto rifles, supersonic sniper rifles, and anti-tank guns for armored vehicles, along with, but not limited to, bear mace, beanbag guns, teargas grenades, tasers, rubber pellet launching guns, and other less-than lethal weaponry, the more harmful of which should only be used when 100% necesarry.
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