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View Poll Results: "I'm a good person so I will go to Heaven.
Everyone goes to Heaven when they die 1 8.33%
It's not by good works which you are saved 4 33.33%
No one goes to heaven 4 33.33%
other 3 25.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 19th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #21
ShineintheDark
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

Religiousness itself makes me uncomfortable since it sort of lessens the true morality of your actions: if you're doing good because you feel it'll get you rewarded, that doesn't make you a good person, it makes you a trained animal. If it takes the word of an omnipotent God to tell you not to rape, steal, harm others etc and not an innate desire to bring happiness and joy to other human beings then are you really the kind of person who deserves eternal reward? The pursuit of Heaven and promotion of 'true faith' has very much corrupted religious people into becoming something that their own God would not be proud of and therefore makes us question whether the people who have convinced themselves that they are worthy of Heaven even deserve Heaven.
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Old July 19th, 2018, 11:50 AM   #22
HeyCameron
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

^Agreed. I'm also a bit wary of people who act like because they're "saved", it doesn't matter what they do. That seems to contradict the letter of James, anyway: "Faith without works is dead".

I spent a year suspended in air...my mind on the gap, my head on the stairs
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Old July 19th, 2018, 07:57 PM   #23
bonbon
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

I don't believe in Heaven, and even if I did, I'd frankly not care. I'm trying to have good behavior because I think that's the way to make the world a better world to live in, and not because some random $DEITY told 2000 years ago that I must act so.

Why should I listen to advices from a being who only care to talk to humanity once every millenium or so, and always using cryptic words? How's a book written by totally random guys in a totally different time and place any better at telling me what is proper behavior than my own ethics ? Where people magically more clever 2000 years ago than now? That concept sounds totally nonsense to me.
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Old July 26th, 2018, 10:09 AM   #24
Oscar2005
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
if you're doing good because you feel it'll get you rewarded, that doesn't make you a good person, it makes you a trained animal. If it takes the word of an omnipotent God to tell you not to rape, steal, harm others etc and not an innate desire to bring happiness and joy to other human beings then are you really the kind of person who deserves eternal reward?
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Originally Posted by bonbon View Post
I'm trying to have good behavior because I think that's the way to make the world a better world to live in, and not because some random $DEITY told 2000 years ago that I must act so.
I kind of agree with both of you, I think you shouldn't do good things because you will get rewarded, but just because it's right, and can help other people.
But I am still catholic

Quote:
Why should I listen to advices from a being who only care to talk to humanity once every millenium or so, and always using cryptic words?
Thy shall not kill
Thy shall not steal

That doesnt sound cryptic to me
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Old July 27th, 2018, 09:46 PM   #25
bonbon
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

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Originally Posted by Oscar2005 View Post
I kind of agree with both of you, I think you shouldn't do good things because you will get rewarded, but just because it's right, and can help other people.
I agree with that, but that's not really all what I meant. My issue is not only with the idea of 'do so because of a potential reward' - it is most importantly 'do so because I'm telling you it is a good thing to do'. I think it is fundamentally wrong to base one's ethical choices over what random guys wrote about it, instead of my own judgement.

What makes the moral rules described in the Bible any better than the moral rules I'm imposing on myself, based on my own experience of living and interacting with others, and trying to understand how and what they feel? Because there is a "Approved by God" stamp on it?

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But I am still catholic
I won't question that. That's your own personal choice.

Quote:
Thy shall not kill
Thy shall not steal

That doesnt sound cryptic to me
Ah, it is so convenient to pick whatever translation feels best ! But that text was originally not written in English, but in an ancient form of Hebrew. And in Hebrew, the text doesn't say "kill" ; it rather says "murder". That's *very* different meaning. Even on something as simple as that 'rule', you already have two diverging ways of understanding it.

Sure, you could then object that the rest of the scriptures aims to explain the meaning of the basic rules, provide historical or metaphorical examples, and so on. And that doesn't make me any better with it, since those approve capital punishment against horrendeous crimes like, hum, blasphemy or homosexuality.

The same kind of comment can be done about the "clarity" of "Thy shall not steal" - I discovered when documenting myself to properly answer you that the original text was likely meaning: "You shall not kidnap" !

So yes, to me, those texts are ancient, hard to read due to historical distance, translation layers, totally different societies and ways of living, transcription errors and fragmented/obscure origins. They are certainly worth reading to get a better understanding of how people saw and explained the world back then. But as my ultimate moral compass? Certainly not.
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Old July 30th, 2018, 12:07 AM   #26
hayley2003
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

imho, whatever happens when people die, its exactly the same for everyone; no exceptions, good or bad.

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Old August 1st, 2018, 09:06 PM   #27
Tim the Enchanter
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

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Originally Posted by hayley2003 View Post
imho, whatever happens when people die, its exactly the same for everyone; no exceptions, good or bad.

What is this heresy!


JUST TIM
Also known as, the hash-slinging slasher


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Old August 1st, 2018, 11:10 PM   #28
hayley2003
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Default Re: "I'm a good person so I will go to heaven."

from the philisophical movie "Circle of Iron" aka "The Silent Flute". The undercurrent is Zen. Bruce Lee created the story and was going to star in the movie before he died.
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