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View Poll Results: Do you agree with the death penalty?
Yes, I think it is fair 60 53.57%
No, Its not fair 43 38.39%
Cant decide 9 8.04%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake1994 View Post
Ahh and I see Death is still trying to force people to agree with his warped views that somehow giving some ruthless murderous sick bastard life is apparently a better solution than the death penalty which they fucking deserve. I agree with Red_Dragon, that's another reason we need the death penalty, to relieve prison overcrowding. The death penalty works and it is necessary.
How about putting it this way. Would you rather have pedophiles and murders go to a hell that may or may not exist (there's absolutely no proof for either belief), or one of the various hells across the United States?
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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #142
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They took someone else's life. Therefore they don't deserve to live, while their victim's families suffer. That's reasoning enough. Why should my tax Dollars keep scum like that alive?

BLAKE



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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:52 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Blake1994 View Post
They took someone else's life. Therefore they don't deserve to live, while their victim's families suffer. That's reasoning enough. Why should my tax Dollars keep scum like that alive?
Think of the ass raping.
Think of the suffering they would have to go through.
Just keep them there forever

Also, it takes a lot less money to keep someone locked up than to pout them on death row.
The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated.

Last edited by slappy; May 11th, 2011 at 08:59 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:02 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Blake1994 View Post
They took someone else's life. Therefore they don't deserve to live, while their victim's families suffer. That's reasoning enough. Why should my tax Dollars keep scum like that alive?
Hey, bud, are you actually going to adress me or what? I'm sick and tired of hearing you continuing to spew the very nonsense that I've just refuted. What part of the following are you incapable of comprehending?

1. Killing murderers gives them an easy way out.
2. If you give prisons bad conditions they will be worse than feeling nothing.
3. You cannot claim to be better than a murderer if you do the same to them.
4. It is against the better teachings of your religion.
5. You cannot release and compensate a death penalty victim when later found innocent.
6. Your views stink of hypocrisy for reasons already given.

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Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
murders happen since the dawn of time. it's not a problem you can fix or even prevent. there'll always be some psycho with a few screws loose who decides all of a sudden to go on a killing spree.


When you say psycho, you mean a mentally ill person? In 2010 in Texas, Teresa Lewis was executed. She had an estimated IQ of 72. Can we kill those people, who, most of the time, don't even know why they're doing it? It's a terrible proof of failure of our society. We couldn't help those mentally ill people, so we kill them after they did what we didn't prevent them from doing.
Let's help those people before they commit murder, instead of killing them after.

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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
i've visited so-called "jails" in canada and i've seen pedos with computers and TV with cable with their cell.


Did you speak to them?
You know, I think most of them will be haunted for the rest of their lives by what they did. And believe me, a TV isn't going to make them forget. For the ones who don't care about what they did, then I think we should try to understand why they don't show normal human feelings.

Have you already seen an execution?


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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
i could go for life in prison without parole including hard labor. have our scum pave our roads, brick our buildings and mix our cement. people always speak of "repaying debts to society". i want their sweat or their blood, either bodily fluid works for me.


Well, no offense, but who are you to want something from them?
And once more, you say they have debts toward society after killing someone. And that we should kill those men and women because they're murderers. What if the person they killed was another murderer? Would we make a difference? I don't think so...
We have nothing to want from them. It shouldn't be about personal revenge, but about justice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
reformation potential. the problem with jail is that it allows scum to off lesser scum on the way to becoming not scum. but perpetual solitary confinement is "cruel and unjust punishment".


There is a fundamental difference between us there. You think if a murderer kills another murderer, he would become "not scum", a better person. I think killing is horrible and should be considered intolerable both ways.

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Originally Posted by Blake1994 View Post
They took someone else's life. Therefore they don't deserve to live, while their victim's families suffer. That's reasoning enough. Why should my tax Dollars keep scum like that alive?
Do you think about the families of the people sentenced to death? They didn't do anything wrong. And we make them suffer. The death penalty won't bring back the victim, and the executed person's family will suffer. At the end, the death penalty makes much more suffering people than anything else.

Please do not double post---Socko

Last edited by Iceman; May 18th, 2011 at 07:31 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 12:36 PM   #146
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Default Re: The death penalty.

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Originally Posted by beren View Post
[COLOR="White"]When you say psycho, you mean a mentally ill person? In 2010 in Texas, Teresa Lewis was executed. She had an estimated IQ of 72. Can we kill those people, who, most of the time, don't even know why they're doing it? It's a terrible proof of failure of our society. We couldn't help those mentally ill people, so we kill them after they did what we didn't prevent them from doing.
Let's help those people before they commit murder, instead of killing them after.
well, first, that was in virginia.

and second, that woman had sex with two men and paid them in order to kill her husband and son for insurance money. even her defense lawyer acknowledged that she wasn't "mentally retarded", just very close to it.

nevertheless, i think the two men should've been the ones executed. just intern the woman.

Quote:
Did you speak to them?
You know, I think most of them will be haunted for the rest of their lives by what they did. And believe me, a TV isn't going to make them forget. For the ones who don't care about what they did, then I think we should try to understand why they don't show normal human feelings.

Have you already seen an execution?
no, and depends.

haunted? haunted how? a lot of inmates have zero remorse (that's part of the diagnosis for sociopathy). a lot of them are completely irredeemable.

i'm willing to concede a chance for them to prove that they aren't a complete waste of body parts. that's more than most would grant them.

Quote:
Well, no offense, but who are you to want something from them?
And once more, you say they have debts toward society after killing someone. And that we should kill those men and women because they're murderers. What if the person they killed was another murderer? Would we make a difference? I don't think so...
We have nothing to want from them. It shouldn't be about personal revenge, but about justice.
what? seriously? this isn't about me. this is about society and the loss incurred by losing a member thereof. how is it justice if society isn't refunded a part of what she lost? it's only fair. they owe us.

murderers hurt society as a whole. they have to pay. at the very least they have to replace the productive member of our society that they killed or incapacitated.

hard labor is a fitting replacement to the death penalty. until then, no dice. as i said, either blood or sweat works.

Quote:
There is a fundamental difference between us there. You think if a murderer kills another murderer, he would become "not scum", a better person. I think killing is horrible and should be considered intolerable both ways.
once again, you misread me. i said that the killing of a reformable inmate is almost as big of a blow to society as losing a free, productive person. the killer should be hanged either way.

the legal killing of irredeemable scum is fair game.

Jean Poutine, LL.B.

Last edited by Jean Poutine; May 12th, 2011 at 12:39 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:55 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
what? seriously? this isn't about me. this is about society and the loss incurred by losing a member thereof. how is it justice if society isn't refunded a part of what she lost? it's only fair. they owe us.
Owe us what? Their lives? And this helps how? Owe us free labour maybe, but killing them doesn't help anybody. And don't say it's societal protection, since they don't need to be dead to be pacified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
murderers hurt society as a whole.
And that's why you shouldn't kill them, because you become them by doing so. You'd see the obvious loophole in your argument if you weren't so blinded by your seemingly-dogmatic principles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
they have to pay. at the very least they have to replace the productive member of our society that they killed or incapacitated.

hard labor is a fitting replacement to the death penalty. until then, no dice. as i said, either blood or sweat works.
Hard labour is a good idea. And that way they can be released and compensated when later found inncoent. So why don't we stick with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
the legal killing of irredeemable scum is fair game.
Oh the hypocrisy in this quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
well, first, that was in virginia.

and second, that woman had sex with two men and paid them in order to kill her husband and son for insurance money. even her defense lawyer acknowledged that she wasn't "mentally retarded", just very close to it.

nevertheless, i think the two men should've been the ones executed. just intern the woman.
Well, you answered the example but not the idea. In the US, 44 people were killed while mentally ill in the last 30 years. That's another atrocity death penalty can do. Killing retarded people. That's unacceptable, I hope we'll agree on that.



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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
a lot of inmates have zero remorse (that's part of the diagnosis for sociopathy). a lot of them are completely irredeemable.
How would you know that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
once again, you misread me. i said that the killing of a reformable inmate is almost as big of a blow to society as losing a free, productive person. the killer should be hanged either way.

the legal killing of irredeemable scum is fair game.
Sorry, I'm not totally fluent in English yet.

I guess we won't agree on the death penalty issue. But at the end, our opinions won't matter. The ones that will really have an impact are the ones of the people who don't know the death penalty issue. We're both going to fight to make them become abolitionists or pro-death penalty, I guess. And they will choose. But I think the fate of death penalty is already written. 16 abolitionists countries in 1977, 92 in 2008.
But we won't stop fighting, will we?!
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Old May 12th, 2011, 04:52 PM   #149
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Default Re: The death penalty.

yes, theirs terrible people out there and they need to be stopped with a heavy penelty.

"Ah, the anticipation is palpable, isn't it?" -Mister Burke
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Old May 13th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #150
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yes, theirs terrible people out there and they need to be stopped with a heavy penelty.
I would like to refer you to the shitload of posts I've already made explaining exactly how flawed that 'idea' is.

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Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #151
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Default Re: The death penalty.

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Originally Posted by Blake1994 View Post
They took someone else's life. Therefore they don't deserve to live, while their victim's families suffer. That's reasoning enough. Why should my tax Dollars keep scum like that alive?
Implying you have to kill someone to be put on death row
Implying the family of the person that's on death row isn't suffering either
Implying death row isn't as expensive
Implying everyone that's been executed on death row wasn't innocent

Taken from antideathpenalty - "$2 million per person vs. $500,000 (4x as much!). Free counsel for defense, for appeals, maximum security on a separate death row wing."

Taken from deathpenalty.org - "The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases."

There's tons of people that have been executed later being found out to have never committed the crime in the first place. Do you know how fucking sick that is?

Did you know lying under oath and drug trafficking can lead to death penalty too?

How about this story on Earl Washington here.

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Old May 15th, 2011, 01:42 PM   #152
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I'd rather see a murderer / rapist / child abuser have life in prison than get death - the easy way out.

Feel free to PM me about anything
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Old May 15th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #153
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seems fair if they are 100% sure they got the right person. 99% not good enough.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #154
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People are people. Whether they have killed people or whatever, does not make them different. We're all dark. Hell, we're killing to stop killing. That doesn't make sense. Death will happen either way.

I'll help you. At least I'll try as hard as I can. All good intentions for all of you Play nice and respect each other.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Death View Post
Owe us what? Their lives? And this helps how? Owe us free labour maybe, but killing them doesn't help anybody. And don't say it's societal protection, since they don't need to be dead to be pacified.
let's see :

-you can't make prison a horrible experience because that's "cruel and unusual punishment".
-you can't make them do hard labor because that's "cruel and unusual punishment".
-you can't make life imprisonment 100% safe for society because doing so would entail applying measures that are, you guessed it, "cruel and unusual punishment".

however :

-you can drive down the cost of the death penalty by eliminating some of the lawyering up death row inmates can do.
-you can eliminate a risk permanently by getting rid of said risk.
-you can use the death penalty for plea bargaining to catch a criminal one couldn't have caught otherwise or even catch other people.

seems pretty clear cut to me.

Quote:
And that's why you shouldn't kill them, because you become them by doing so. You'd see the obvious loophole in your argument if you weren't so blinded by your seemingly-dogmatic principles.
that's what i mean. you abolitionists just wave your moral penises everywhere trying to coerce everyone into comparing to see who has the biggest one.

and what do i care about pseudo-philosophically becoming a murderer for killing a murderer? the loophole in YOUR argument is that it matters. the entire american legal system, including the judge, lawyers, jury, experts, along with the whole police force and doctors, are now all murderers for having a hand in the death of some dude who raped and killed a teenager.

boohoohoo. big deal, so what? the obvious element there is that there is a huge difference between a legal murder perpetuated by society against grave offenses of the law and killing innocents. an obvious element that you're gleefully ignoring in your quest to "prove" that we're all monsters, because you're mixing the APPLICATION of capital punishment with capital punishment ITSELF.

and how exactly does killing a non-productive member of society...hurt society, anyway?

now don't go around saying "killing somebody costs more lol"...because it needn't. there's a difference between the concept of death penalty itself and how it is applied, as i said.

Quote:
Hard labour is a good idea. And that way they can be released and compensated when later found inncoent. So why don't we stick with that?
"cruel and unusual punishment"

Quote:
Oh the hypocrisy in this quote.
"il n'y a pas de société possible, si elle n'est pas fondée sur l'hypocrisie" - maurice donnay

i'm all for giving you the chance to express your ad hominems, but you have to realise that they are still not arguments. either way, i'm done. compare sizes with someone else.

Jean Poutine, LL.B.

Last edited by Jean Poutine; May 15th, 2011 at 05:35 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
let's see :

-you can't make prison a horrible experience because that's "cruel and unusual punishment".
-you can't make them do hard labor because that's "cruel and unusual punishment".
-you can't make life imprisonment 100% safe for society because doing so would entail applying measures that are, you guessed it, "cruel and unusual punishment".
And you know what? I don't give a fucking shit. I don't remember saying that it should be "cruel and unusual punishment" in the first place, so using this against me is pretty fucking pointless. As far as I'm concerned, hard labour and bad prison conditions is fine in my books. They're also a fuckload better than showing your hypocrisy and disregard for innocents by murdering who you assume to be murderers.

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-you can use the death penalty for plea bargaining to catch a criminal one couldn't have caught otherwise or even catch other people.
You can also do that with the threat of being stuck in a shithole all your life.

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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
seems pretty clear cut to me.
And the delusion that the world is flat seems pretty clear to the fucktards who believe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
that's what i mean. you abolitionists just wave your moral penises everywhere trying to coerce everyone into comparing to see who has the biggest one.
Being moral is obviously a good thing though. You know, by definition? Duh.

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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
and what do i care about pseudo-philosophically becoming a murderer for killing a murderer?
Because you would then be obliged to kill them for murder. If you didn't, then your punishment would be inconsistant. Talk about a stupid question.

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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
the loophole in YOUR argument is that it matters.
And that's a problem? Of course this fucking matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
the entire american legal system, including the judge, lawyers, jury, experts, along with the whole police force and doctors, are now all murderers for having a hand in the death of some dude who raped and killed a teenager.

boohoohoo. big deal, so what?
How can you claim to be better than them? I keep asking you but you keep dodging the question. You also haven't answered the question about how you can be okay with the murder of innocent people who were convicted guilty but the truth was found out later. How can you release and compensate a corpse? You can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
and how exactly does killing a non-productive member of society...hurt society, anyway?
Just because they killed someone, it doesn't mean they can't become unproductive. Hard labour is the answer to that. And going round killing those who could easily later found to be innocent is hardly productive. Even moer evidence of hypocrisy in the monstrous idea of the death penalty.

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Originally Posted by uchimata View Post
now don't go around saying "killing somebody costs more lol"...because it needn't. there's a difference between the concept of death penalty itself and how it is applied, as i said.
Oh I get it. You are saying the death penalty is better because there's less cost involved. So that's it then? Money is more valuable than potentially-innocent lives, lost labour, and liberty? What a disgusting thought.

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i'm all for giving you the chance to express your ad hominems, but you have to realise that they are still not arguments. either way, i'm done. compare sizes with someone else.
What's the matter? Not able to refute me? That is a very childish and immature quote. Your ignorance humours me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #157
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Uchimata, you are continuing this thread only because you don't want to accept the loss of the debate. Face it.

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Old May 16th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #158
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Uchimata, you are continuing this thread only because you don't want to accept the loss of the debate. Face it.
Exactly what I think he should do. I think he should swallow his pride and start adressing the points of mine he's ignored.

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Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #159
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Default Re: The death penalty.

Perhaps the entire argument can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.

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Old May 16th, 2011, 12:13 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.
Then they would hunt you down to show people that government is doing bad stuff by killing people.

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