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View Poll Results: Death penalty are you in favor or against?
Yes, I'm in favor of it. 9 33.33%
No, I'm against it. 18 66.67%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 2nd, 2019, 03:41 AM   #41
NoLimitGuy
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by RocketSkier View Post
All the philosophers, intellectuals and anthropologists of the whole history are rolling in their graves after reading this statement...
Well, after such a nonsense you just wrote, I can only say - ignorance is strong with you... And I have no interest at all to further this dialogue with such a limited person. But before I go - how many philosophical books have you read, how many philosophers do you know? And how many scientifical research from anthropologists have you read? And I will drop some articles too...

https://www.psychologicalscience.org...nitive-biology ; https://australianmuseum.net.au/lear...s-are-mammals/ ; https://teara.govt.nz/en/table/12130...tion-of-humans ; https://www.learner.org/courses/esse...2/closer4.html ;
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 07:26 AM   #42
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by NoLimitGuy View Post
Clearly a person who has no idea how human psychology works... Maniacs and psychopaths MUST be terminated not because they have a problem which we don't want ti solve but because they have an unsolvable problem - they will remain a threat to a society no matter what because their problems are not curable, they have born with them (psychopaths) or have suffered such a big psychological trauma that only way to somehow reduce the pain is to make others suffer... And there is a simple premise - people DON'T change. Those who attempted suicide and didn't suceed will attempt another after a while. You can drag them to therapists, you can use hypnosis on them, you can always be close to them for aid but the problem won't go away, it will always remain inside and it's a matter of time when they will have their 'roofs' torned away again. Same goes with mass murderers, pedophiles, rapists - their problem is indeed mental and most of their deeds are causation of their mental problem but that problem will forever be intact because as I said previously - it's either mental failure inherited from birth or it's a developled problem since childhood or teen years (most cases), lesser in adulthood. And no matter how well you will try to integrate them, you won't change their nature - they will forever be a threat to a society. They can be contaminated but that's again only for a time until something will trigger them again. And the most humane thing to do for them would be termination. Yes, it's called mercy. What you call for is actually a torture and plain egoism... They are suffereing, they have done sufferings to others because of their own suffering and it will continue until they die. So yes, sometimes a murder is an act of a mercy... But I fear that in all your idealised world where everyone must help everyone, where everyone lives in peace and harmony this just is not acceptable truth... Rights are always relative, they don't exist in the nature and most laws and the same rights are created out of the plain egoism of human species to protect us from our true nature... These exeptions are only rare representations of our true selves, reflections of our nature...
The choice isn't between the death penalty and giving people a slap on the wrist that is silly. The fact is that the death penalty is sometimes applied against innocent people and is more expensive than life in prison. So giving them life in prison removes them as a threat to society for a lower cost and without the chance of executing an innocent person. I, personally, have a moral objection to executing people but I think we should all be able to accept the practical aspect.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 01:39 PM   #43
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

Against to your beliefs I am against death penalty. While there might be people who would be better death. As principle I am against death penalty every situation what so ever.
What I see is that most of you think about costs of keeping someone in prison versus death.
For me it doesnt matter a shit. We as society are not so poor that we cant afford to put people to prison. It is even more hypocritical when you (USA) put people to do 150 years sentences for non violent crimes. We obviously have more concerning issues about who we put behind bars and how long.
Human life is sacred and as long as we can choose to not to kill a person we should not kill that person.
War or fight between life or death are another issue to begin with. But when murderer is behind bars there is no reason to kill such person.
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Old June 4th, 2019, 03:32 AM   #44
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Oskarr2005 View Post
I guess when someone gets sentenced to death, that's because the judge does think there is 100% certainty.
I can't imagine it otherwise

And yet, sometimes there are still some judicial errors
Wrong. The sentence is imposed by the jury, unless it's a bench trial, which it rarely is. And the standard for guilt is 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' not '100% certainty,' at least in the USA. I don't believe any country uses 100% certainty as a standard; it doesn't exist.
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Old June 4th, 2019, 06:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Wrong. The sentence is imposed by the jury, unless it's a bench trial, which it rarely is. And the standard for guilt is 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' not '100% certainty,' at least in the USA. I don't believe any country uses 100% certainty as a standard; it doesn't exist.
Whatever word you want to use
Sorry for you that you're more busy on the exact words rather than trying to get the point...

So, in words that you can understand :
The people who call for death penalty should be sure that the man is guilty. I can't imagine it otherwise. And yet errors do happen
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Old June 4th, 2019, 06:48 PM   #46
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by NoLimitGuy View Post
And there is a simple premise - people DON'T change. Those who attempted suicide and didn't suceed will attempt another after a while. You can drag them to therapists, you can use hypnosis on them, you can always be close to them for aid but the problem won't go away, it will always remain inside and it's a matter of time when they will have their 'roofs' torned away again
Some people do change if they have the right help and advices. Maybe not all, but every one deserves a second chance
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Old June 8th, 2019, 06:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Oskarr2005 View Post
Whatever word you want to use
Sorry for you that you're more busy on the exact words rather than trying to get the point...

So, in words that you can understand :
The people who call for death penalty should be sure that the man is guilty. I can't imagine it otherwise. And yet errors do happen
Yeah, because when you're talking about the death penalty, these minor differences don't matter, do they?

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Originally Posted by Oskarr2005 View Post
Some people do change if they have the right help and advices. Maybe not all, but every one deserves a second chance
I'm not an advocate of the death penalty, but...
I would imagine anyone on death row today has gotten a second, third, fourth chance. Rarely is anyone sentenced to death on a first offense.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 12:50 PM   #48
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

Im against it mainly because I think it would be far more punishment to have to sit in prison for the rest of your life. Many people unfortunately see death as an escape or a way out and that to me doesnt feel like its true justice. Executions are setup by law to be done with the least amount of suffering, so why would that be better over a small cell with limited resources to the outside world?
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Old June 10th, 2019, 12:52 PM   #49
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Zika View Post
Yeah, because when you're talking about the death penalty, these minor differences don't matter, do they?



I'm not an advocate of the death penalty, but...
I would imagine anyone on death row today has gotten a second, third, fourth chance. Rarely is anyone sentenced to death on a first offense.
Im sure quite a few criminals are sentenced to death on a first offense. The death penalty doesnt really build up, like 3 murders or less, no death penalty but once you hit that 4th, look out!
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Old June 11th, 2019, 12:17 AM   #50
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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I’m sure quite a few criminals are sentenced to death on a first offense. The death penalty doesn’t really build up, like 3 murders or less, no death penalty but once you hit that 4th, look out!
I'm quite sure you're mistaken.
It's difficult to tell if you're joking. What you're saying really sounds stupid.

My response was to osker, who said people should get a second chance. My point was, most people who are sentenced to death have already been convicted of other crimes in the past, so they've had their 'chance.'

It has to do with recidivism. Look up the term.

Last edited by Zika; June 11th, 2019 at 12:25 AM.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 10:33 AM   #51
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Zika View Post
Yeah, because when you're talking about the death penalty, these minor differences don't matter, do they?
Definitely not. We talk about for or against death penalty, so who decides for is not relevant here.
Of course, we could debate about whether the guilt and the sentence should be decided by one single judge or by 12 something civil people, and about the difference between absolute certainty and reasonable doubt, but that's not the topic here

Quote:
I would imagine anyone on death row today has gotten a second, third, fourth chance. Rarely is anyone sentenced to death on a first offense.
Oh, really?
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Old June 12th, 2019, 11:16 AM   #52
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

In the United States, the death penalty is only awarded in two crimes: aggravated murder and crimes against the state (i.e. treason) with the latter being very rare. Aggravated murder refers to first degree murder with circumstances that "aggravate" the murder, with prior convictions qualifying as an aggravating factor. So while it is true that if an offender commits first degree murder and they had prior convictions, that is more likely to make them eligible for the death penalty, it certainly isn't necessary. There are other aggravating factors, including murder accompanied by rape, attempted murder of multiple people, an especially cruel or heinous method of murder, etc. In order to qualify for the death penalty, aggravating factors have to be present (at least one under federal law; states have their own laws about how many factors are required). So previous convictions are factors, but they are not the only factors and there are certainly examples of first-time criminals being sentenced to death, like Scott Peterson (the only Californian on death row I could think of off-hand).

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Last edited by HeyCameron; June 12th, 2019 at 11:19 AM.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 05:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Death Penalty- what's your opinion?

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In the United States, the death penalty is only awarded in two crimes: aggravated murder and crimes against the state (i.e. treason) with the latter being very rare. Aggravated murder refers to first degree murder with circumstances that "aggravate" the murder, with prior convictions qualifying as an aggravating factor. So while it is true that if an offender commits first degree murder and they had prior convictions, that is more likely to make them eligible for the death penalty, it certainly isn't necessary. There are other aggravating factors, including murder accompanied by rape, attempted murder of multiple people, an especially cruel or heinous method of murder, etc. In order to qualify for the death penalty, aggravating factors have to be present (at least one under federal law; states have their own laws about how many factors are required). So previous convictions are factors, but they are not the only factors and there are certainly examples of first-time criminals being sentenced to death, like Scott Peterson (the only Californian on death row I could think of off-hand).
Your description of what is eligible for capital punishment is correct.
My point was most people who commit those heinous crimes have committed other crimes previously. There are some rare exceptions and you noted the most infamous of them, but for the most part, most people on death row have already had a second chance.

That's not to say I'm for the death penalty; I'm not. I'm just saying in the overwhelming majority of cases, carrying out the death penalty would not deprive them of a second chance; that train is long gone.
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