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Old September 13th, 2006, 08:42 PM   #1
kolte
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Default The war in Iraq(debate)

What do you think about this 'war'? Is our being there justified still. Or are we wasting our time now. And what about George Bush. Is he really a good leader?


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 13th, 2006, 08:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

George bush is not the best leader but he is strong. I personly would have liked to invade Iran instead of Iraq, but good still came from it establish a democracy in the middle east besides isreal which will make other countrys want freedom once they see how happy Iraq is. And just to free the people.
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Old September 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

It's bullshit, no, he's a dumbass.


The original reason for going to war was the suspicion that they had WMD, we never found any. Then they said because of 9/11, but Saddam didn't have anything to do with it. We can't fight the terrorists, we can't tell who they are, it's like in Vietnam, they sent children armed with grenades, the soldiers wouldn't know they had them until it was too late.

We can't remain there, as long as we're killing people and pissing them off, there will always be more enemies. We're just needlessly killing, we need to pull out and let them deal with their own problems, and stop giving arms to Israel. By removing Saddam we further destabilized the region, now Iran, Syria, And Lebanon are free to trade arms through Iraq.

He isn't really in charge, he's a puppet, cheney and the lobbyists are controlling everything. Bush is like a robot programmed to say "terrah", "terrahists", "nucular weapons", "war on terrah", 9/11, national security, bomb, and airport as many times as possible to scare the living shit out of us so we can keep fighting, so Bush, Cheney, the other politicians, and the corporations get as much money as possible. He has wasted a shitload of money, and is going to be remembered as the worst president in history.
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Old September 13th, 2006, 11:14 PM   #4
kolte
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

The War in Iraq was a grave mistake. Homeland security is in ruins. You see, what our republican majority of congress has allowed the Bush Administration to do, is utterly destroy our country’s national security. Even Newt Gingrich, one of the fathers of the modern day Republican Party, has lost faith in the Bush administration. In reference to the Republican Party he as said and I quote.

“They are seen by the country as being in charge of a government that can't function…."

- Newt Gingrich

“He cited a series of blunders under Republican Rule, from failures in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to mismanagement of the War in Iraq. He… said the government has squandered billions of dollars in Iraq. He noted that a Congressional Watchdog agency recently smuggled a truck carrying nuclear material into the country to test security. ‘Why isn’t the president pounding on the table? Why isn’t he sending up 16 reform bills?”

- Knight Ridder Newspapers

I mean, just consider the following:

Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.

Only 6% of all cargo ships coming in and out of the United States are inspected!



And hey, forget Iraq, what about America. Let’s see some of George Bushes budgeting at work.

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf

I really must say I’m not impressed.


Our priorities should be:

Implementing the 9/11 Commission recommendations
Raising the minimum wage
Lowering prescription drug costs for seniors
Increasing Pell Grants
Rolling back subsidies for Big Oil
PayGo
Comprehensive immigration reform


And what about our economy? I mean, helping homeland security actually has the potential to help the American economy! We spend about 8 billion dollars a MONTH on the war in Iraq. Imagine if we turned that money to America! Strengthen our borders. Improving our education! Healthcare! Pell Grants! Raise Minimum wage! Buy equipment to inspect cargo ships. Create tons of new jobs with all these improvements.

WE ARE IN DEBT. We keep borrowing money, and in the last 4 years have borrowed over a trillion dollars from foreign countries! That’s crazy. We owe Japan 682 billion dollars. We owe China 249 billion dollars. We owe the UK 223 billion dollars. We owe Caribbean 115 billion dollars! We owe Taiwan 71 billion dollars. OPEC – 67 billion. Germany – 65 Billion. Korea – 66 billion. Canada – 53 billion.
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf

We keep digging deeper and deeper into a deficit! http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf

HEY. You are going around preaching about *ignorant fools and there information* I say unto you! LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION. We as Americans have an obligation to do something about this. Become an activist. Get something done. SUPPORT YOUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The republicans have shown time and time again…that they cannot run this country. The Democratic Party has plans. They have bills. They have a future for this country. The Republicans don’t. George Bush and the Republican majority have NOT even tried to implement the 9/11 commissions ideas. They have failed you, and they have failed the world. BOO.


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 13th, 2006, 11:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

First we need to eliminate the national bank, and take the country back from the corporations, it doesn't matter who's in office, the corporations and bankers own America. Has anyone even bothered to visit my signature links? Visit them you damn fools!
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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:42 AM   #6
Charlotte
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Join Date: January 15, 2006
Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolte View Post

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf
For America could you please show what the cut reduced it to as the total and source for info? Thanx.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 09:01 AM   #7
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Location: Moving around... seriously!
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

I just don't like Bush's government, and I totally disagree with the war... they've been more than enough time to find those "massive destruction" weapons...
the dude doesnt even has any proof of what he says...

Odi et amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.


~Harrie's proud brother!~

VT Veteran
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Old September 14th, 2006, 03:45 PM   #8
Phantom2828
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Age: 25
Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolte View Post
The War in Iraq was a grave mistake. Homeland security is in ruins. You see, what our republican majority of congress has allowed the Bush Administration to do, is utterly destroy our country’s national security. Even Newt Gingrich, one of the fathers of the modern day Republican Party, has lost faith in the Bush administration. In reference to the Republican Party he as said and I quote.

“They are seen by the country as being in charge of a government that can't function…."

- Newt Gingrich

“He cited a series of blunders under Republican Rule, from failures in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to mismanagement of the War in Iraq. He… said the government has squandered billions of dollars in Iraq. He noted that a Congressional Watchdog agency recently smuggled a truck carrying nuclear material into the country to test security. ‘Why isn’t the president pounding on the table? Why isn’t he sending up 16 reform bills?”

- Knight Ridder Newspapers

I mean, just consider the following:

Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.

Only 6% of all cargo ships coming in and out of the United States are inspected!



And hey, forget Iraq, what about America. Let’s see some of George Bushes budgeting at work.

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf

I really must say I’m not impressed.


Our priorities should be:

Implementing the 9/11 Commission recommendations
Raising the minimum wage
Lowering prescription drug costs for seniors
Increasing Pell Grants
Rolling back subsidies for Big Oil
PayGo
Comprehensive immigration reform


And what about our economy? I mean, helping homeland security actually has the potential to help the American economy! We spend about 8 billion dollars a MONTH on the war in Iraq. Imagine if we turned that money to America! Strengthen our borders. Improving our education! Healthcare! Pell Grants! Raise Minimum wage! Buy equipment to inspect cargo ships. Create tons of new jobs with all these improvements.

WE ARE IN DEBT. We keep borrowing money, and in the last 4 years have borrowed over a trillion dollars from foreign countries! That’s crazy. We owe Japan 682 billion dollars. We owe China 249 billion dollars. We owe the UK 223 billion dollars. We owe Caribbean 115 billion dollars! We owe Taiwan 71 billion dollars. OPEC – 67 billion. Germany – 65 Billion. Korea – 66 billion. Canada – 53 billion.
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf

We keep digging deeper and deeper into a deficit! http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf

HEY. You are going around preaching about *ignorant fools and there information* I say unto you! LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION. We as Americans have an obligation to do something about this. Become an activist. Get something done. SUPPORT YOUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The republicans have shown time and time again…that they cannot run this country. The Democratic Party has plans. They have bills. They have a future for this country. The Republicans don’t. George Bush and the Republican majority have NOT even tried to implement the 9/11 commissions ideas. They have failed you, and they have failed the world. BOO.
OMFG bush is accualy helping rebuild a country in desperate need and taking funds from us when we have more than enough moeny to support outselfs! So in other words the democrats want to stop supporting and helping better the lives of millions of Iraqis and spend it all on us? Bush is accualy building schools hospitals giveing health care, and alowing women and little girls to go outside without a veil instead of fearing being beaten to death. We america are just fine, are you dieing are YOU starving are you uneducated and never gone to school in your life NO. I cant beleive people would accualy use this infromation against bush. I didnt know you could be too kind too generous but according to dems you can.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

I think Bush is trying to make peace, but he needs to read "Peace-Making For Dummies" written by his own father. GWB's attempt to make peace is what created this whole ordeal.

"Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war."
-John McCain
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Old September 14th, 2006, 03:53 PM   #10
Phantom2828
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

I like the idea of establishing a democracy in the middle of that crappy place know as the middle east, freeing the people making sure saddam didnt have wmd's and I am pretty sure some part of it was for oil but not in a bad way, we free them rebuild their country with schools hospitals and give them moeny, in return us and brittan get exclusive rights for contracts to mine for oil, sounds fair dosnt it.

Last edited by Phantom2828; September 14th, 2006 at 04:07 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 03:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom2828 View Post
I like the idea of establishing a democracy in the middle of that shithole know as the middle east...
That was a really dumb thing to say. I understand you have your opinion but calling the middle east a "shithole" is totally out of order. It's just not right to insult that region because it has problems.

"Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war."
-John McCain
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Old September 14th, 2006, 04:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diego View Post
That was a really dumb thing to say. I understand you have your opinion but calling the middle east a "shithole" is totally out of order. It's just not right to insult that region because it has problems.
Yeah it kinda was but its still a crappy place compared to anywhere except africa. You dont see people in the U.S cutting of heads or beating little girls for not covering their faces

Last edited by Phantom2828; September 14th, 2006 at 04:07 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 04:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

So now your calling africa lower than shit? Please stop. Those horrible things happen all over the world.

"Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war."
-John McCain
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Old September 14th, 2006, 04:06 PM   #14
Phantom2828
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diego View Post
So now your calling africa lower than shit? Please stop. Those horrible things happen all over the world.
Just forget I said it I am going to edit my post. And no they dont happen all over the world.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Yes they do.

Back on Topic.

I don't have anymore to say exept this "war" is horrible, and should be put to an end.

"Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war."
-John McCain
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Old September 14th, 2006, 04:08 PM   #16
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Why what war just Iraq or war on terror
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Old September 14th, 2006, 05:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Both, terrorists only exist because we're pissing everyone off, stop pissing people off, you don't have enemies, go kill the people that are only against you because you pissed them off in the first place, you continue to make enemies until you are outnumbered and wiped off the map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom2828 View Post
OMFG bush is accualy helping rebuild a country in desperate need and taking funds from us when we have more than enough moeny to support outselfs! So in other words the democrats want to stop supporting and helping better the lives of millions of Iraqis and spend it all on us? Bush is accualy building schools hospitals giveing health care, and alowing women and little girls to go outside without a veil instead of fearing being beaten to death. We america are just fine, are you dieing are YOU starving are you uneducated and never gone to school in your life NO. I cant beleive people would accualy use this infromation against bush. I didnt know you could be too kind too generous but according to dems you can.
Hey, they only need half of that shit because we bombed it.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by popo93 View Post
Both, terrorists only exist because we're pissing everyone off, stop pissing people off, you don't have enemies, go kill the people that are only against you because you pissed them off in the first place, you continue to make enemies until you are outnumbered and wiped off the map.




Hey, they only need half of that shit because we bombed it.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! o wow. You truely believe that these people (terrorists religious extreamists) hate us because we PISS THEM OFF what are we doing that pisses them off jesus man all the citizens are greeting us and high fiveing our soilders in Iraq right now, its only the terrorists and insurgents that shoot at us. If we our president thought like you do we would have WAYYYYYYYYYY more terrorist attacks and civilian deaths, if FDR thought like you do we would all be speaking german! The terrorists we are fighting DONT WANT PEACE, WE are infidels their little koran tells them to kill us, I already posted all those verses in another thread. Why don't you go over there and say we're sorry! please we want peace! they will f*cking cut your head off, we have offered them a ceasefire many times they decline. O yeah you have just joined the weak liberal tree hugging list sound familiar jk
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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

Please provide me some solid evidence that they're all religious extremists, and this is suppsoed to be a mature discussion between "intelligent" beings, so don't laugh at people you disagree with.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popo93 View Post
Please provide me some solid evidence that they're all religious extremists, and this is suppsoed to be a mature discussion between "intelligent" beings, so don't laugh at people you disagree with.
Ok what do you think they are, you must surley admit that at least SOME of them are. Why would you want to KILL someone that just freed you from a harsh dictatorship is spending millions fixing YOUR country building hospitals giveing more than half of your population free healthcare, schools letting little girls go to school without geting f*cking stoned (whick btw is barbaric) schools and just generaly making life better for everyone. Now I know you are going to bring up O WELL WE KILL LOTS OF CIVILIANS, well thats kinda hard to avoid when Ackmed hides in hospitals! and behind CHILDREN! Or straps a bomb to his 11 year old! This tactic is called hugging, we drop leaflets before we bomb saying get out terrorists in your area or somthing like that, the terrorists love it when civilans die hell mostly all civilian deaths are from some idiot blowing himself up!
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