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Old January 11th, 2005, 01:08 AM   #221
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Thank you for apologizing. I really do not like to debate with people who cannot act mature about it, it defy's the point of a debate. Now, I cannot "break your logic" because that is your logic. Just like you cannot break my logic. But I can tell you what I think.

Putting tax benefits aside,

First of all, I think marriage is a state of mind and a feeling. If you are with someone long enough to know you cannot live without them, you are married. If you absolutly need it written on paper, as if paper has more meaning to you than true feelings, you do not really feel married. I'm not saying that just because you are married (in paper) you do not feel married. I am asking why do gays have to feel that reassurance of marriage? Can't they just say they are married even if they are not considered such by the government? Why does it matter if the government knows? I know that I can feel married without reassurance from the government or a piece of paper. My Great Aunt is not married, but lives with the man she loves and has for many years. She does not need the reassurance of a piece of paper to know that she loves him and he loves her.

So, I leave you with a question, why do gays need that reasurrance and why do they push it so much?

-Ekia
 
Old January 11th, 2005, 05:16 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekia aj
Thank you for apologizing. I really do not like to debate with people who cannot act mature about it, it defy's the point of a debate. Now, I cannot "break your logic" because that is your logic. Just like you cannot break my logic. But I can tell you what I think.

Putting tax benefits aside,

First of all, I think marriage is a state of mind and a feeling. If you are with someone long enough to know you cannot live without them, you are married. If you absolutly need it written on paper, as if paper has more meaning to you than true feelings, you do not really feel married. I'm not saying that just because you are married (in paper) you do not feel married. I am asking why do gays have to feel that reassurance of marriage? Can't they just say they are married even if they are not considered such by the government? Why does it matter if the government knows? I know that I can feel married without reassurance from the government or a piece of paper. My Great Aunt is not married, but lives with the man she loves and has for many years. She does not need the reassurance of a piece of paper to know that she loves him and he loves her.

So, I leave you with a question, why do gays need that reasurrance and why do they push it so much?

-Ekia
Oh for god sakes! You're saying here whys it so important that the government recognizes the marraige...so why dont we just scrap marraige all together! Why do ANY couples need the reassurance? And gay and lesbian couples can still adopt a child or get a donor to help them have a child so there's still the possibility they'll have a kid! So yes, they need the tax benefits. Plus, gays want it to be recognized so they can be EQUAL CITIZENS! Either everyone gets the benefits, or noone does. End of story.. I'ts all about EQUALITY.
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Old February 2nd, 2005, 07:43 PM   #223
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It's all about EQUALITY...wait, gays already have equality! They have the same marriage rights as heterosexuals - they're legally allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex.

So, you're not asking for equality, you're asking for gays to have more rights than heterosexuals.

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Old February 2nd, 2005, 09:47 PM   #224
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What?
That's the worst argument ever. I could say "well heterosexuals dont have the right to join gay alliances or go to gay bars!", but that would be a retarded and pointless arguement.

We're asking for someone to be able to marry someone they LOVE. So not only gays, but transsexuals should be able to marry as well, if its love they're confessing.

Once again, that was a stupid arguement
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 02:45 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
What?
That's the worst argument ever. I could say "well heterosexuals dont have the right to join gay alliances or go to gay bars!", but that would be a retarded and pointless arguement.

We're asking for someone to be able to marry someone they LOVE. So not only gays, but transsexuals should be able to marry as well, if its love they're confessing.

Once again, that was a stupid arguement
I know it's a shitty argument.

My point is that using EQUALITY as your argument won't work.

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 03:54 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
What?
That's the worst argument ever. I could say "well heterosexuals dont have the right to join gay alliances or go to gay bars!", but that would be a retarded and pointless arguement.

We're asking for someone to be able to marry someone they LOVE. So not only gays, but transsexuals should be able to marry as well, if its love they're confessing.

Once again, that was a stupid arguement
I know it's a shitty argument.

My point is that using EQUALITY as your argument won't work.
YES IT WILL! They're both getting the right to marry the person they love!
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 04:13 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
What?
That's the worst argument ever. I could say "well heterosexuals dont have the right to join gay alliances or go to gay bars!", but that would be a retarded and pointless arguement.

We're asking for someone to be able to marry someone they LOVE. So not only gays, but transsexuals should be able to marry as well, if its love they're confessing.

Once again, that was a stupid arguement
I know it's a shitty argument.

My point is that using EQUALITY as your argument won't work.
YES IT WILL! They're both getting the right to marry the person they love!
i agree with you!

all people are equal no matter of their sexual orintation, race, religion, abilities/disabilities and all that jazz! so it is a thing about equality

in fact in the UDHR (United Nations Declaration of Human Rights)
Article 16: Everyone has the right to marry

of course a declaration is a serious statement but isnt legally binding, but i do believe that refuseal to gay marriages is a breach of our human rights

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:34 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
What?
That's the worst argument ever. I could say "well heterosexuals dont have the right to join gay alliances or go to gay bars!", but that would be a retarded and pointless arguement.

We're asking for someone to be able to marry someone they LOVE. So not only gays, but transsexuals should be able to marry as well, if its love they're confessing.

Once again, that was a stupid arguement
I know it's a shitty argument.

My point is that using EQUALITY as your argument won't work.
YES IT WILL! They're both getting the right to marry the person they love!
i agree with you!

all people are equal no matter of their sexual orintation, race, religion, abilities/disabilities and all that jazz! so it is a thing about equality

in fact in the UDHR (United Nations Declaration of Human Rights)
Article 16: Everyone has the right to marry

of course a declaration is a serious statement but isnt legally binding, but i do believe that refuseal to gay marriages is a breach of our human rights
And...gay people still have the right to marry! They have the exact same right as straight people: To marry people of the opposite sex!

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:40 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
And...gay people still have the right to marry! They have the exact same right as straight people: To marry people of the opposite sex!
you are really fucking up this debate.
the discussion here is, gay people who want to marry the person of the same sexto whom they are in love with, what you are doing is twisting this
you are saying that they have to right to marry, but not to somone of the same sex

to be honest, this is totally a stupid that you are making that may result in some distubances. if you continue ill either edit or delete posts, but not close this topic, you have been warned

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 06:17 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
And...gay people still have the right to marry! They have the exact same right as straight people: To marry people of the opposite sex!
you are really fucking up this debate.
the discussion here is, gay people who want to marry the person of the same sexto whom they are in love with, what you are doing is twisting this
you are saying that they have to right to marry, but not to somone of the same sex

to be honest, this is totally a stupid that you are making that may result in some distubances. if you continue ill either edit or delete posts, but not close this topic, you have been warned
You don't get my point.

I'm all for gay marriage, let them do whatever they want, as long as they don't do it to me.

My point is, they shouldn't use "EQUALITY" as their argument, because they'll have MORE rights than a heterosexual if gay marriage is allowed.

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Old February 3rd, 2005, 09:10 PM   #231
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Who says heterosexuals wouldn't then ahve the right to marry homosexually?
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Old February 4th, 2005, 03:03 AM   #232
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james says: "in fact in the UDHR (United Nations Declaration of Human Rights)..." Why would you honestly post a fake acronym if you were going to type out its full meaning anyways?
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Old February 4th, 2005, 01:34 PM   #233
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How is it fake? I googled it, and yes, it exists.
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Old February 4th, 2005, 03:02 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
Who says heterosexuals wouldn't then ahve the right to marry homosexually?
Several heterosexuals have blatantly stated they do not want that right.

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Old February 4th, 2005, 03:18 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
How is it fake? I googled it, and yes, it exists.
actually i sort of made a mistake, it is actually the UNIVERSAL Decleration Of Human Rights! I was studying for my Civic, Socil and Politicol Education Test last night!

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Old February 4th, 2005, 03:24 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
Who says heterosexuals wouldn't then ahve the right to marry homosexually?
Several heterosexuals have blatantly stated they do not want that right.
Well I'm sure gay people dont want the right to marry heterosexually. They don't care about that. You have one piece of crap of an argument going, you know.



Quote:
actually i sort of made a mistake, it is actually the UNIVERSAL Decleration Of Human Rights! I was studying for my Civic, Socil and Politicol Education Test last night!
Actually, that thing is run by the UN I believe
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Old February 4th, 2005, 03:43 PM   #237
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yes it is, but the offical name is the Universal..... not the UN!! JUST SOME ADDED INFO!!

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Old February 5th, 2005, 03:04 PM   #238
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I don't understand why it's a bad thing. Maybe because I'm ignorant, but honestly, If I got married to a guy or girl, it wouldn't effect any of you.
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Old February 5th, 2005, 06:20 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbean
I don't understand why it's a bad thing. Maybe because I'm ignorant, but honestly, If I got married to a guy or girl, it wouldn't effect any of you.
Bingo. It's not saying everyone has to go out and get married to a gay person, and it doesnt effect anyone! If they made it legal without announcing it, NOONE WOULD NOTICE!
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Old February 5th, 2005, 07:53 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximan
Who says heterosexuals wouldn't then ahve the right to marry homosexually?
Several heterosexuals have blatantly stated they do not want that right.
What does that prove....

I know what it proves, that you are naive!

If gay people are given the right to marry the same sex it is not giving them a right above heterosexuals. Heterosexuals still have the option to marry homosexually as was originally stated by maximan.

That would be giving a right to both sexual orientations, it is not unfair in anway.

You seem to be making a habit of reversing the topic, that's a very primitive strategy, perhaps if you backed it up with good evidence when you do infact reverse the claim then your argument might not be more valid.

There is no reason why homosexuals should not have the equal right of marrying a partner they love as heterosexuals do everyday. Equality is a good argument. Adding a new right doesn't make it unequal, or one sided, it just inputs a new rule which should have always been there in the first place.

Religion is the cause of much of societys down fall as it is today but it also is the cause of many good things. However religion on state policy and law is silly, as the truth is 100% of the population do not believe in Christianity, if they did, then using christian driven morals in law and state would be justified, however that is not the case.

Yet that is what is happening all around the world. A prime example is G W Bush.

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