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Old January 12th, 2019, 09:55 PM   #21
ArfyMcPeesh
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Default Re: Brexit

My teacher is a total moron and never told us half of this
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:52 PM   #22
Zika
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by ArfyMcPeesh View Post
My teacher is a total moron and never told us half of this
Did your teacher seem to be supporting one side or the other, or giving you a balanced view so you could decide for yourselves?
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:57 PM   #23
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Did your teacher seem to be supporting one side or the other, or giving you a balanced view so you could decide for yourselves?
He didnt. We read this stupid article on how it was a vote on immigration and finance and it split the country, and then we had a discussion and he asked us questions to make the noggins go and that was it. I think he had no idea at all, but he basically talked about bailing out Greece.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 07:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Brexit

Even if it's actually his job to inform you properly, don't rely on your teacher. Brexit is kinda good documented since 2016. You just have do a bit of research on the net.

Imo it isn't necessarily important to be fully informed. Above all, I would search for sources that are largely objectively deal with the pros and cons of Brexit.





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Old January 13th, 2019, 10:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Zika View Post
While Scotland and Northern Ireland may be diverse, the influx of African and Arab immigrants would affect them less than those in England. It's not surprising that areas with more diversity were less afraid of more immigrants.
That's precisely the point though: many social services are administered at a local level by regional councils and bodies. If African and Arab immigrants were this major drag on social services, wouldn't those who live under these strained system want to remove that drag more strongly? The issue is that the strain put on services in a predominantly white area isn't due to immigration but the fact that predominantly white areas tend to be more densely populated with older people (since young people often move to built-up urban areas for work) and so it's an aging population that requires more frequent visits to a doctor and pensions to support themselves that cause the strain. Immigrants tend to be younger, stronger and more fertile than the average British worker and we accept their applications for these reasons as that means they will work longer and produce more children to become future workers. This also means as a result they need less social care than the average Brit, meaning they put in more money to the system than they take out.
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"Issues surrounding immigration were a lot more complex than the 'foreigners are taking our jobs' narrative that was prominent during the campaigning period."

They certainly were, but I answered the question asked, which was "...how we manged to get ourselves into this awful mess."
From the analysis of the voting I read, many voters were moved by fear of foreigners taking their jobs and the burden to social services caused by immigrants and migrants. That the real issues were far more complex than that doesn't address the question of why the British voted to exit. That 'narrative' was effective in getting people to vote for the separation.
Desperate people follow the same trends throughout the world as well as throughout history: the simpler the narrative, the more popular it is. When the population of Germany lived with major inflation and poverty in the 1930s, they happily believed the narrative of 'Jewish Communists did this to you, let us suppress them and you will live well again.' When Soviet citizens saw leading officials and war heroes dragged to work camps and treated like slaves, they believed the narrative of 'Comrade Stalin has found them to be traitors and foreign spies. He would never betray you.' When the American working class live in the shadow of the 2008 Financial Crisis where unemployment is relatively high and they feel government no longer listens to them, they happily believe that some property mogul with a popular TV show will 'Drain the Swamp' and stop these damn Mexicans from flowing in and taking their jobs. And so, when the British working class live under a strained NHS with dismal state welfare and a major divide between the poor and wealthy, they will be happy to be convinced that EU is what's keeping them this way and that all will be sunshine and rainbows once we leave.
People are desperate for change and want to see their lives improve - that's why people voted for Brexit. When they're told that the causes of their problems are simple and all they have to do is give power to a bunch of smiling faces, they will do it without question. They don't have time to waste on philosophical thought or illuminating discussions, they vote in politicians for that and so when you shove a massive choice into their hands with only slogans and simplified answers, they won't research it, they'll just vote on what they believe initially.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 01:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Brexit

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I think England should get out of the EU
That's what was voted for 2 years ago...
We just dont know how to get out of it, and what will happen to the trades agreements we signed for when we joined in
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Old January 13th, 2019, 03:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: Brexit

Can't pretend I understand all the arguments because I don't. Talked about it in school and the teachers are always trying to put both sides. I am from London and most Londoners are against brexit but the bit I am from is more in favour so all a bit confusing but.....

London probbaly wouldn't function without loads of EU workers.
As for the money we pay its not all bad. We do get some grants and help with things.
My dad explains its a bit like a gym subscription.
You might not always get your money's worth every month but it seasier to belong and much less hassle than trying to arrange an exercise session somewhere or other whenever you want to get fit.
You pay for the convenience of easy trade and easy travel.

TBh there is one selfish reason for me to be against Brexit. I have just got a passport. I have never left the UK and this summer we were going to go to Spain. Now dad says its probbaly going to be all chaotic into the summer so he is refusing to book anything.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 06:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
When they're told that the causes of their problems are simple and all they have to do is give power to a bunch of smiling faces, they will do it without question. They don't have time to waste on philosophical thought or illuminating discussions, they vote in politicians for that and so when you shove a massive choice into their hands with only slogans and simplified answers, they won't research it, they'll just vote on what they believe initially.
I don't know if you're disagreeing with me or not.
I agree, the majority of people who voted for it seemed to have voted out of fear, without taking an objective look at the whole, complicated pic.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 06:14 PM   #29
ShineintheDark
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I don't know if you're disagreeing with me or not.
I agree, the majority of people who voted for it seemed to have voted out of fear, without taking an objective look at the whole, complicated pic.
I have a very detailed style but yeah I agreed lmao.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 06:53 PM   #30
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And so, when the British working class live under a strained NHS with dismal state welfare and a major divide between the poor and wealthy, they will be happy to be convinced that EU is what's keeping them this way and that all will be sunshine and rainbows once we leave.
People are desperate for change and want to see their lives improve - that's why people voted for Brexit. When they're told that the causes of their problems are simple and all they have to do is give power to a bunch of smiling faces, they will do it without question. They don't have time to waste on philosophical thought or illuminating discussions
My parents and grandparents all agree to say that they lived far much better before EU
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Old January 14th, 2019, 06:17 AM   #31
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I have a very detailed style but yeah I agreed lmao.
I like your style
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Old January 14th, 2019, 11:43 AM   #32
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Default Re: Brexit

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My parents and grandparents all agree to say that they lived far much better before EU
I get that ( my dad's parents say that too) but then some people say the whole world has changed anyway so maybe its not just the E.U. thing.
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Old January 14th, 2019, 04:29 PM   #33
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Brexit is a great thing. Wish we got out too.
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Old January 14th, 2019, 05:43 PM   #34
ShineintheDark
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Hey guys. The UK House of Commons (lower house of government) is set to vote on the current Brexit Deal tomorrow and so I feel it's best we all know what it contains. Here's the most politically neutral video I can find explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7nN0cgs9A
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Old January 15th, 2019, 03:26 PM   #35
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Default Re: Brexit

202 votes for the deal, 432 against.
The deal with the EU is rejected.

Anything is still on the table, from a new referendum to a hard Brexit. Tomorrow is a vote of confidence for the current government.

It's One. Big. Mess.
There are only losers in this nonsense, most of all the citizens of the UK and of the EU.

I'm les, feel free to contact me
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Old January 15th, 2019, 05:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by breaux View Post
Brexit is a great thing. Wish we got out too.
While Danes can't do Brexit it would be Daexit then, I suppose. Good luck with that.


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It's One. Big. Mess.
Good said. I guess, Brexit will historically known for this best. "One big mess!"





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Last edited by lliam; January 15th, 2019 at 05:19 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2019, 05:14 PM   #37
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I agree that things need to change within the EU, but leaving it is not smart.
Pulling together against the rest of the world (read: USA and China) will greatly benefit your country AND the rest of the countries in the EU.
International trade is SO important nowadays, and if you cut off that trade by creating barriers (which is what happens when a country is leaving the EU), all of the economies involved will be negatively affected.

I'm les, feel free to contact me
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Old January 16th, 2019, 02:02 AM   #38
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by EvaNL View Post
202 votes for the deal, 432 against.
The deal with the EU is rejected.

Anything is still on the table, from a new referendum to a hard Brexit. Tomorrow is a vote of confidence for the current government.

It's One. Big. Mess.
There are only losers in this nonsense, most of all the citizens of the UK and of the EU.
Isn't this fun?

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48
There is no such thing as liberal or conservative media, the only thing the media cares about is either money or the truth.
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Old January 16th, 2019, 05:09 AM   #39
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Isn't this fun?
If the consequences weren't so serious, I'd laugh like crazy about all this.

I'm les, feel free to contact me
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Old January 16th, 2019, 08:39 PM   #40
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If the consequences weren't so serious, I'd laugh like crazy about all this.
I guess like with what is happening in the US its much more entertaining if you are not living there or affected by it.

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There is no such thing as liberal or conservative media, the only thing the media cares about is either money or the truth.
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