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Old September 23rd, 2006, 07:48 AM   #81
cmpcmp
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Default Re: communism(discuss)

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Originally Posted by Makod View Post
He did not say or meen to say that Phantom was your friend.
ummm...

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BUt its not like I'm suprised to hear another ignorant comment from our young friend phantom.
this isn't really that importiant but am i missing something here?
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 01:05 PM   #82
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Heh, yes you are.

And so we ignore the beggar's cup
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Teach the unborn the winners sign
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 03:36 PM   #83
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any ways..... do u have any good reason why ppl wouldn't want to just ride the system? Not having to do anything is what ppl strive for, its why they play the lotto, to give them the choice of
-doing nothing and still getting every thing they would have gotten anyways
-work hard and get the same thing that they would have if they did nothing

the point is ppl need motivation
-to not break the laws
-and to work doing something productive

I IS impossible to do this w/o some kind of motivation. From what your telling me there really isn't any ounder C-A except to better ur community, not every body will volenteer, over time IMO very few would want to at all. Thus draging the system down, eventualy to a comlete hault.
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 10:28 PM   #84
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Default Re: communism(discuss)

well, if you don't make food, then you don't eat food. If you don't help the community, then you are shuned from the community. The masses will take care of any moochers.


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 10:34 PM   #85
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Default Re: communism(discuss)

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well, if you don't make food, then you don't eat food. If you don't help the community, then you are shuned from the community. The masses will take care of any moochers.
This would reduce us back to nothing more than a hunter gatherer society. If you want that please move to africa and live with some tribe.

Last edited by Phantom; September 24th, 2006 at 09:19 PM.
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Old September 24th, 2006, 01:54 AM   #86
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The masses will take care of any moochers.
the masses? there will be no trials? a kangaroo court?

-how would you make sure that every one had a job who was ususing the resources?
-are there police to enforce this? or is it all played out in the trial of public opinion? are there votes on that to, or are there "judges" and or a "jurry" to decide it?


-assuming that the "masses" decide not to mooch for w/e reason, and they do decide to work, but they all choose "easy" jobs, or ones they personaly enjoy like working with children and designing video games or w/e it really doesn't matter. If there are certian necesary jobs that aren't filled, what happens then? are ppl forced into thoes jobs? if so who would be forced, if every one is equal?
-If ur really bad at your job/you are a slacker, then how do you get fired? is there some one w/ authority? (manager/ceo or w/e) or is everything voted on on that level also?
(sounds like a rediculios amount of voting to me, and a popularity contest also)

Last edited by cmpcmp; September 24th, 2006 at 09:09 PM. Reason: spelling+one sentence
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Old September 26th, 2006, 09:02 PM   #87
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are there no awnsers because you have no awnsers?

If so thats why i don't think C_A would work
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Old September 27th, 2006, 05:43 PM   #88
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Default Re: communism(discuss)

I don't have a fucking degree in fucking socialist theory or anything you fucker. God I wish I could slit your throat online. You annoy me.

And phantom, primitive anarchism and anarchist communism are two completly different things.

CmpCmp, there are no answers becasue I work for a living and don't have too much time to sit in front of my comptuer and vegitate, If I don't work, I don't eat, I don't pay bills and I suffer and die a premature death, which is what you will suffer by my hands one day if you don't stop badgering me for answers. Pick up a book you fool, read something that explains it, I don't have time to teach you every little detail. If there was a political party, or perhaps an organization that had a platform or something similer I could answer these question no problem. But AC is a political ideology. To try and answer yoru questions would be to make smoething up. I'm not going to do that because I dont' fuking know. But I'm sure I allready fucking said that.

fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist...communism.html
http://www.zabalaza.net/platform.htm
http://www.af-north.org/principles.htm
http://flag.blackened.net/af/
http://www.answers.com/topic/anarchist-communism
http://www.nefac.net/
http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=3694\
http://flag.blackened.net/af/org/issue42/acbrit.html
http://flag.blackened.net/heatwave/
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar.../01_07_x01.htm
http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/k...i/sp000065.txt
http://www.answers.com/topic/melbour...ommunist-group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...0/prin-com.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0813068.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dmcm/
http://www.worldsocialism.org/
http://www.socialism.com/
http://www.answers.com/topic/socialism

go to any one of these links and you will find any answer you were looking for I'm sure.


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 27th, 2006, 05:54 PM   #89
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Default Re: communism(discuss)

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I don't have a ing degree in ing socialist theory or anything you er. God I wish I could slit your throat online. You annoy me.

And phantom, primitive anarchism and communism are two completly different things.

CmpCmp, there are no answers becasue I work for a living and don't have too much time to sit in front of my comptuer and vegitate, If I don't work, I don't eat, I don't pay bills and I suffer and die a premature , which is what you will suffer by my hands one day if you don't stop badgering me for answers. Pick up a book you fool, read something that explains it, I don't have time to teach you every little detail. If there was a political party, or perhaps an organization that had a platform or something similer I could answer these question no problem. But AC is a political ideology. To try and answer yoru questions would be to make smoething up. I'm not going to do that because I dont' fuking know. But I'm sure I allready ing said that.

fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist...communism.html
http://www.zabalaza.net/platform.htm
http://www.af-north.org/principles.htm
http://flag.blackened.net/af/
http://www.answers.com/topic/anarchist-communism
http://www.nefac.net/
http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=3694\
http://flag.blackened.net/af/org/issue42/acbrit.html
http://flag.blackened.net/heatwave/
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar.../01_07_x01.htm
http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/k...i/sp000065.txt
http://www.answers.com/topic/melbour...ommunist-group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...0/prin-com.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0813068.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dmcm/
http://www.worldsocialism.org/
http://www.socialism.com/
http://www.answers.com/topic/socialism

go to any one of these links and you will find any answer you were looking for I'm sure.
You should'nt need a degree to answer f*cking simple questions f*cker, if you cant answer such basic questions aparently its not going to work f*ck face

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Last edited by Phantom; September 27th, 2006 at 05:57 PM.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 05:59 PM   #90
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well if there were answers to those fucking questions Id fucking use them you dumbass


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 27th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #91
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well if there were answers to those ing questions Id ing use them you dumbass
There is not logical answers so therefore your little dream system fails.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old September 27th, 2006, 06:30 PM   #92
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no its beause its a political ideology, not a political part with a platforum, or a drafted consitution, or a drafted governing body.

god your an ignorant fuck.


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 27th, 2006, 06:34 PM   #93
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no its beause its a political ideology, not a political part with a platforum, or a drafted consitution, or a drafted governing body.

god your an ignorant .
Go live with a tribe in africa

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old September 27th, 2006, 08:58 PM   #94
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I don't have a ing degree in ing socialist theory or anything you er. God I wish I could slit your throat online. You annoy me.
theres that killing ppl (me) thing again.......

Phantom and kolte, stop swearing, name calling, and making general asses of yourselves, u don't do anyone any good.

Quote:
CmpCmp, there are no answers becasue I work for a living and don't have too much time to sit in front of my comptuer and vegitate
Ok, fine, but do take into account that you are on a debate forum, when some one asks you a question about what YOU think about a topic (the subject you brought up about C-A),

don't be offended that they (I) think you should have an opinion. and don't quote them 15 articles, after the 20 books, and the 9 page post. When u complain that you don't have time (don't you see that as hipocritical a little bit?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK now something constructive to say.....
-In order to advance as a society and live in a 'modern' world with advancement in science and technology, not every body can work their own land for their own food.
-in order for a society to not require this, ppl must be organized in what they do and be able to get what they need w/o providing it directly from their own labor. In most societys this is achieved using 'money'
-If there is a job unfilled, the money offered for that job will increase untill someone wants to do it for the right amount of compensation.
-with C-A this doesn't exist, so you have a few scenerios......

1. Your society trys to move forward w/o these jobs fufilled, and probly isn't succesfull. If you don't have, lets say garbage men (or recycle ppl or w/e) you will stack your trash prety high, which will cause big problems.
2. If there is no money, then ppl are gifted in other ways to preform their job. Unfortunately this can't happen as all you have done is rename money into something else, and then insto facto, you have wage labor (which is clearly against C-A).
3. You force some ppl to work at some job, but how could you do this? wouldn't it make labor involentary, and one step further, not even the labor you wanted? plus who would decide who worked where?

and...

If some one was bad at there job, who would fire them? would there have to be a vote?

it sounds like a lot of things to me,

- C-A either has forced labor, in which case you would have to have either authorities with power, or another vote. Also sounds like a popularity contest to me, as not every one in the country, sate, town or what ever knows them, it would only be the ppl that did know them that would vote.


- C-A is either a popularity contest democracy with absurd amounts of voting, or it has authorities with power (thus no longer an anarchy), or forced and or waged labor, which isn't C-A at all really. Plus there couldn't be laws with out a system to make them, enforce them, and some one with some kind of power. for these reasons, and others like ppl mooching off of the system, C-A wouldn't ever work, humans are the fault, not the system, if humans were perfect, we wouldn't need the system anyways.
-
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Old September 27th, 2006, 09:11 PM   #95
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Guys, every system of government is flawed no matter what you think, deal with it folks.

Also: when you completely ignore everything Kolte says he gets like this so... try listening to him sometime and maybe he won't get angry >.>.

Oh and by the way: Fuck the Fucking Fuckers.

And so we ignore the beggar's cup
Praise your act in the Grand Finale
Teach the unborn the winners sign
a welcome grin to the world Royal

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Old September 27th, 2006, 09:30 PM   #96
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Native americans used to have some kind of C-A. Sure it sounds nice I am not sure how it would be to live in it but it would NEVER work.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old September 27th, 2006, 11:07 PM   #97
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Guys, every system of government is flawed no matter what you think, deal with it folks.
-exactly what i have been syaing, and it is because humans are 'imperfect', so the only systems that work at all are ones that have built in mechanisms to deal with the unfortunate properties of human behavior/being.

-my argument isn't that C-A is imperfect and that capitalism is.

-neither are perfect, but capitalism can, and does work.

-Any form of government that expects that humans will do stuff and work hard to get the exact same thing as they would have doesn't make any sense

-IMO a C-A society would fail, and the only way to have it not fail, is to make it more like a representative domacracy (capitalistic), and then you really don't have a C-A.


Capitalistic R-D is the lesser of all evil that are Functioning governments.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 12:15 AM   #98
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-exactly what i have been syaing, and it is because humans are 'imperfect', so the only systems that work at all are ones that have built in mechanisms to deal with the unfortunate properties of human behavior/being.

-my argument isn't that C-A is imperfect and that capitalism is.

-neither are perfect, but capitalism can, and does work.

-Any form of government that expects that humans will do stuff and work hard to get the exact same thing as they would have doesn't make any sense

-IMO a C-A society would fail, and the only way to have it not fail, is to make it more like a representative domacracy (capitalistic), and then you really don't have a C-A.


Capitalistic R-D is the lesser of all evil that are Functioning governments.
Actually, no, all governments are faulted in the same way, there is no "lesser evil."

And, no, capitalism does not work for everyone; it may work for you, but people who are not well off in our society would beg to differ.

And so we ignore the beggar's cup
Praise your act in the Grand Finale
Teach the unborn the winners sign
a welcome grin to the world Royal
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Old September 28th, 2006, 03:19 PM   #99
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Actually, no, all governments are faulted in the same way, there is no "lesser evil."

And, no, capitalism does not work for everyone; it may work for you, but people who are not well off in our society would beg to differ.
Yeah for a bum that dosnt want to work. We have a thing called welfare (for some odd reason the libs wanna give more of it out) you cant work because you have a disablity you get welfare, hell you are a lazy bum that dosnt wanna work you can get welfare. There is no such thing as a not so well off person in a sense, sure you can be born rich but thats just because the people before you worked hard to make that moeny. If you work hard get an education accualy try you will be just fine. at least in my state it is impossible to be homeless because of the welfare, we have tons of people that just mooch of welfare which comes from the people that work hard.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself John Stuart Mill
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:21 PM   #100
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Actually, no, all governments are faulted in the same way, there is no "lesser evil."

And, no, capitalism does not work for everyone; it may work for you, but people who are not well off in our society would beg to differ.
-Capitalism is faulted
-C-A is faulted
-they aren't faulted in all of the same ways

WHat im saying is that a true C-A gov, wouldn't 'work' hardly at all, to todays first world standards. Democratic Capitalism does.
-if you want to argue that C-A would work reasonably well, then argue that, (you aren't doing that right now)
------------------------------
In capitalism ppl that inherit, and can afford a better education are better off. Even the poorest of poor in america can get a job, any one who is willing to work (asuming that it isn't a depression at the time) can get a job some where. Ppl are always looking for more workers that do a good job. From there you can work your way up, sure if ur unlucky this may never happen, but if you work hard, you will be in high demand, and thus move up on the ladder to some where that you are more usefull.

the whole point is that there are ppl born on the bottom, the middle the top and every where inbetween. If you are born high and are a terrible worker at w/e you do, you will probly get fired and move down, and some one lower will move up and take your place. A good example is my grand father, who's father was a junkyard owner and was very poor. Through hard work and investment, he has worked his way all of the way up to the top of the ladder. Was he lucky? yes, was it coincidental? no.

C-A
If there is no reason to try and 'climb the ladder' whats the point of even working in the first place? you were born on the middle of the ladder, you will live on the middle of the ladder, and you will die on the middle of the ladder no matter what you do

-is this =? yes,
-is it fair? no way. If you work hard all of youor life, guess where you will be? in the middle if you are a lazy shit guess where you will be? in the middle
----------------------------------------------------------------
if u argue that a C-A would 'work' up to todays standards of :
-communications
-roads
-police
-production
-and every thing else, then argue that, don't just tell me they are the same becuase they are both flawed, CUZ they are different, but both are flawed.
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