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View Poll Results: What is your religion?
Agnosticism 142 13.61%
Atheism 312 29.91%
Buddhism 13 1.25%
Christianity (Please Specify) 415 39.79%
Hinduism 9 0.86%
Islam 33 3.16%
Judaism 17 1.63%
Wicca 17 1.63%
Other (Please Specify) 85 8.15%
Voters: 1043. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:14 PM   #3381
Vlerchan
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken toy
i am non religious which doesnt make me an atheist since i view atheism as a religion.
It's not.

Religion infers belief. Atheists are characterised by their disbelief.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:17 PM   #3382
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Originally Posted by Vlerchan View Post
Religion infers belief. Atheists are characterised by their disbelief.
i see it as a religion because they believe in not believing. they believe in something its just not a god


'My dad used to say "fight fire with fire" which is probably why he got kicked out of the fire brigade' | 'my wife sent a photograph to the lonely hearts club, they sent it back saying they werent that lonely' - the wonderful les dawson, RIP | 'never trust a man wish short legs, his brains near his bottom' | 'infamy infamy, theyve all got it in for me' - the amazing kenneth williams RIP
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:21 PM   #3383
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they believe in something its just not a god
A 'state of mind' isn't something you believe in.

---

And by your logic, if I believe I'm satisfied then I've just gone and created a new religion.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:42 PM   #3384
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A 'state of mind' isn't something you believe in.

---

And by your logic, if I believe I'm satisfied then I've just gone and created a new religion.
i didnt fully understand that but ill try interpret this right. if you were satisfied you havent created a new religion you just decided your own beliefs. you dont have to believe in a religion, and i just think that believing in your own ideas and interpretations without the template of a religion is better


'My dad used to say "fight fire with fire" which is probably why he got kicked out of the fire brigade' | 'my wife sent a photograph to the lonely hearts club, they sent it back saying they werent that lonely' - the wonderful les dawson, RIP | 'never trust a man wish short legs, his brains near his bottom' | 'infamy infamy, theyve all got it in for me' - the amazing kenneth williams RIP
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #3385
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i didnt fully understand that but ill try interpret this right. if you were satisfied you havent created a new religion you just decided your own beliefs. you dont have to believe in a religion, and i just think that believing in your own ideas and interpretations without the template of a religion is better
Right, that's all well and good, but my point is that atheism is not a belief and so not a religion.

It's defined as the rejection of a belief in deities, or a disbelief in deities, meaning an absence of belief in deities.

---

I'm not criticising your beliefs. I'm criticising the idea that atheism is a belief system.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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Old August 25th, 2014, 03:04 PM   #3386
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but to reject belief must mean that you believe that there is no god


'My dad used to say "fight fire with fire" which is probably why he got kicked out of the fire brigade' | 'my wife sent a photograph to the lonely hearts club, they sent it back saying they werent that lonely' - the wonderful les dawson, RIP | 'never trust a man wish short legs, his brains near his bottom' | 'infamy infamy, theyve all got it in for me' - the amazing kenneth williams RIP
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Old August 25th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #3387
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but to reject belief must mean that you believe that there is no god
I'd very much just see it as disbelief in the claims of others.

I wouldn't consider belief in nothing a belief.

---

You're argument gets into semantics here: disbelief might imply that the belief in the opposite is true - but it's not 'belief' in the way that any religion is made.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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Old August 25th, 2014, 03:34 PM   #3388
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by broken toy View Post
but to reject belief must mean that you believe that there is no god
No it doesn't. I do not believe in God. But I also do not believe there is no god. I simply believe the existence of God to be very unlikely.


I've gone over this a lot before, but not believing one thing to be true doesn't necessitate that you believe the opposite. It would be logically fallacious to assume that because one doesn't believe the probability of God existing is 100%(gnostic theism), they must believe the probability is 0%(gnostic atheism). They could just believe the probability is between 0% and 100%, or they could lack any believe on the subject whatsoever. This is the case for inanimate objects and animals and babies. Planets do not believe in God. That doesn't mean they believe there is no God. Some people do not believe in god. That does not mean they believe there is no god.

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Old August 25th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #3389
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Default Re: Religion

if they both didnt believe there was a god and didnt believe there wasnt a god that would be agnosticism (i think, im just saying they would be agnostic)


'My dad used to say "fight fire with fire" which is probably why he got kicked out of the fire brigade' | 'my wife sent a photograph to the lonely hearts club, they sent it back saying they werent that lonely' - the wonderful les dawson, RIP | 'never trust a man wish short legs, his brains near his bottom' | 'infamy infamy, theyve all got it in for me' - the amazing kenneth williams RIP
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Old August 26th, 2014, 12:41 AM   #3390
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by broken toy View Post
if they both didnt believe there was a god and didnt believe there wasnt a god that would be agnosticism (i think, im just saying they would be agnostic)
No. There's gnostic and agnostic atheism, hard agnosticism and agnostic and gnostic theism.

An atheist that is an agnostic atheist does not beleive in a god, but also does not beleive god DOES NOT exist. They just don't beleive it.
A gnostic atheist beleives god DOES not exist and "knows" it.

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Old August 26th, 2014, 06:44 AM   #3391
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well ive learned something. i never heard of 'gnostic' before this thread. i think in this thread i learned more than i did in 9 years of r.e


'My dad used to say "fight fire with fire" which is probably why he got kicked out of the fire brigade' | 'my wife sent a photograph to the lonely hearts club, they sent it back saying they werent that lonely' - the wonderful les dawson, RIP | 'never trust a man wish short legs, his brains near his bottom' | 'infamy infamy, theyve all got it in for me' - the amazing kenneth williams RIP
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Old September 8th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #3392
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Default Re: Religion

I consider myself to be agnostic. However I am starting to lean towards a more athistic veiw. I think that the concept of religion, in all of it's glory, is the worlds greatest mistake. I don't mean this as "oh every who believe in big man in sky be dumb dumb har" but like, think about how many wars are fought because some guy believes something the other doesn't. To state a few examples: Hitler targetted jews because they didn't believe Jesus was the messiah (or that was one reason at least), The catholics and isl went to war over the holy lands just because they believed jesus was just a prophet so they were heretics, westboro baptist church waging war against humanity because of bible text taken out of context. all of this death, war, and hatred could easily have been avoided were it not for religion having to have its way with everyone on the face of the planet.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, and I am in no way claiming I am right about all of this. It's just my veiwpoint and I'm happy to say I respect many others veiwpoints. Unless you run at me screaming like a banshee and demanding I accept christ or burn in the eternal hellfire.

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Old September 14th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #3393
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I'm LDS!
yay, Christianity!
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Old September 16th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #3394
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Default Re: Religion

Since there's little discussion in here atm,

I'll re-re-re-re-introduce myself, my last post in this thread was 2012.

I'm a stubborn atheist. I run through religions with logic, and they're completely unnecessary for human morality in this day in age. In fact, I think they're evil. I grew up Anglican on an island almost as segregated among denominations as Ireland is. Newfoundland was divided between the Anglicans, Catholics and the Methodists (Like the Salvation Army, and the United Church). You knew, and still know, which family comes from where based solely on religion. Anglican? English. Catholic? Irish. Methodist? London.

They each owned their own school board up until 1997. So all the catholics were sent to catholic schools, ang to anglican, etc. Costly and ineffectual since there were as many school boards as there were religions. Often, entire towns were separated and still are based on Denomination. Norris Arm is Catholic. Norris Arm North is Anglican and Salvation Army. You can see Norris Arm North about 3 kilometres away, but the nearest road into it takes you 10 km down the highway. It divided communities and in recent years we as an island have had the good sense to blow it off.

I hate religion. Name me one moral thing that can only be done by a person of faith and cannot be performed by a nonbeliever or atheist. Can't name one.
But name me one immoral thing that a believer may do that an atheist could not do, and you come up with many examples. Killing in the name of god, genital mutilation, having an old pope telling the heavily catholic african world that AIDS is bad and very wicked, but not as wicked as condoms. Which may have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

Just a few of my grievances to note


EDIT: I should note, our denominations and branches of Christianity are far more peaceful and open to renounce holy scripture than the branches in Europe and particularly the United States. Canadian church dioceses are very liberal these days, absolutely no fire and brimstone


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Old September 24th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #3395
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Toy View Post
if they both didnt believe there was a god and didnt believe there wasnt a god that would be agnosticism (i think, im just saying they would be agnostic)
Not exactly, agnosticism is more like saying "I don't know, and I don't think we can know" to put it basically.

Agnosticism is more the belief that it's impossible to know for sure whether or not a higher power does exist. Then you have agnostic theism, which is like "I don't think it's possible to know, but there could be [in my opinion]", and you've got agnostic atheism, which is like "I don't think it's possible to know, but I don't think there is [in my opinion, it is highly unlikely for a god to exist]".

I mean, I suppose there are true agnostics out there who just generally stay neutral ("It's impossible to know anyways, why bother siding?"), but generally the agnostics I've met (are atheistic) lean one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanine View Post
I consider myself to be agnostic. However I am starting to lean towards a more athistic veiw. I think that the concept of religion, in all of it's glory, is the worlds greatest mistake. I don't mean this as "oh every who believe in big man in sky be dumb dumb har" but like, think about how many wars are fought because some guy believes something the other doesn't. To state a few examples: Hitler targetted jews because they didn't believe Jesus was the messiah (or that was one reason at least), The catholics and isl went to war over the holy lands just because they believed jesus was just a prophet so they were heretics, westboro baptist church waging war against humanity because of bible text taken out of context. all of this death, war, and hatred could easily have been avoided were it not for religion having to have its way with everyone on the face of the planet.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, and I am in no way claiming I am right about all of this. It's just my veiwpoint and I'm happy to say I respect many others veiwpoints. Unless you run at me screaming like a banshee and demanding I accept christ or burn in the eternal hellfire.
I'm not saying you're wrong in this, however, arguably religion isn't the only thing that's brought about hate. And arguably, hating someone over a difference of opinion is more justifiable than hating someone over a difference in appearance.

I feel that people, as a whole, take a lot of things way too seriously, and way too far. Religion just happens to be something a lot of people have conviction in. It's unfortunate that no one thinks to use logic in day-to-day life- and worse, that they don't think to teach their kids to...

If everyone learned to calm the fuck down, would religion have been as big of a problem in the first place? Obviously we'll never know- the past is the past, however, a lot can be accomplished when you take a step back and think. A lot of these people didn't think very hard. They just used their emotions of rage and hate fueled by prejudice and xenophobia taught to them by their parents.

I mean, I'm hardly a good example of "calming the fuck down", but I do know where I fall short. I'm not blind to my faults. It's a hard habit to break sometimes.


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Old October 5th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #3396
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisenUpJanetWeiss View Post
Not exactly, agnosticism is more like saying "I don't know, and I don't think we can know" to put it basically.

Agnosticism is more the belief that it's impossible to know for sure whether or not a higher power does exist. Then you have agnostic theism, which is like "I don't think it's possible to know, but there could be [in my opinion]", and you've got agnostic atheism, which is like "I don't think it's possible to know, but I don't think there is [in my opinion, it is highly unlikely for a god to exist]".

I mean, I suppose there are true agnostics out there who just generally stay neutral ("It's impossible to know anyways, why bother siding?"), but generally the agnostics I've met (are atheistic) lean one way or the other.



I'm not saying you're wrong in this, however, arguably religion isn't the only thing that's brought about hate. And arguably, hating someone over a difference of opinion is more justifiable than hating someone over a difference in appearance.

I feel that people, as a whole, take a lot of things way too seriously, and way too far. Religion just happens to be something a lot of people have conviction in. It's unfortunate that no one thinks to use logic in day-to-day life- and worse, that they don't think to teach their kids to...

If everyone learned to calm the fuck down, would religion have been as big of a problem in the first place? Obviously we'll never know- the past is the past, however, a lot can be accomplished when you take a step back and think. A lot of these people didn't think very hard. They just used their emotions of rage and hate fueled by prejudice and xenophobia taught to them by their parents.

I mean, I'm hardly a good example of "calming the fuck down", but I do know where I fall short. I'm not blind to my faults. It's a hard habit to break sometimes.
There is no arguing with this, I appologize if it sounded like I was blaming everything wrong with the world on religion as that was not my intention. In any case, I love your philosophy. Lets all just chill the fuck out and love eachother.

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Old October 5th, 2014, 11:50 PM   #3397
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Default Re: Religion

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There is no arguing with this, I appologize if it sounded like I was blaming everything wrong with the world on religion as that was not my intention. In any case, I love your philosophy. Lets all just chill the fuck out and love eachother.
Haha, no, it's fine. (I think I was kind of hyper that day anyways, so I'm sorry if I came off angry or something?)

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Old October 6th, 2014, 01:57 AM   #3398
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Default Re: Religion

I was brought up as christian, and I have no problems with christians. But I'm not forced to go to service or bible study or read the bible or anything. I do however gain lots of respect for and currently thinking about converting to Atheism, Agnosticism and Paganism/Wicca.

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Old October 6th, 2014, 05:41 AM   #3399
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Religion is poison, and should be exterminated at any costs. Also, Islam is the most violent religion to date and we should focus on exterminating it first.

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Old October 6th, 2014, 08:03 AM   #3400
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swipper
Religion is poison
How?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swipper... and should be [I
exterminated[/I] at any costs. Also, Islam is the most violent religion to date and we should focus on exterminating it first.
Right.

Any suggestions about how this extermination will take place?

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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