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View Poll Results: What is your religion?
Agnosticism 142 13.61%
Atheism 312 29.91%
Buddhism 13 1.25%
Christianity (Please Specify) 415 39.79%
Hinduism 9 0.86%
Islam 33 3.16%
Judaism 17 1.63%
Wicca 17 1.63%
Other (Please Specify) 85 8.15%
Voters: 1043. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 16th, 2009, 03:00 PM   #801
The Batman
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Default Re: Religion

It's called faith.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #802
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Default Re: Religion

(Im pretty sure that y'all will say that this is a hoax or something) But what about the book 90 minutes in heaven? He says that he went to heaven and all of that stuff(me personally have not read the book, so I probally shouldn't be talking about it, but heh.)
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Old February 16th, 2009, 03:03 PM   #803
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I know what it is called, but faith baffles me. It's an all out trust in something you've never seen? I have a hard enough time trusting people in which I can see.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #804
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
You don't really get converted to atheism. I am also listed under Christianity on the poll. I kind of think I had similar experiences as he did. I started going to an evangelical group and it just all seemed fake from then on. These forums had nothing to do with it. If you really begin to think logically all organized religion doesn't make sense. I consider myself to be agnostic. I think there is a possibility of there being a higher power out there, but I have absolutely no evidence so I don't see any reason to worship it.

If there is a powerful being out there, what makes you think it cares about us? You probably don't believe life exists anywhere else in the universe, do you? This universe is so vast that why would a God care about one infinitesimal speck? It really makes no sense.
You can argue that through omnipotence, God can and will care about everything that exists. The fact that anything exists (not even considering the miracle that is life) could be a 'proof' of that if you have enough faith in it. Just my thoughts on that. I won't go back into the free will vs. omnipotence thing because it's something athiests and theists alike can't comprehend.

Quote:
What is there to explain? It's apologetic bullshit? Neither the Qu'ran or the Bible share and "hidden" knowledge of the universe. They certainly contain thousands of vague passages, that in the light of new scientific breakthroughs the religious love to go back to them and re-interpret them to somehow fit in with our new understanding. Don't like that passage just "owned" me There wasn't anything of value in it at all.
I'm interested on your perspective of Deism and general spirituality. I can agree with you that a majority of organized religion is crock of shit, just with the way everything it preached hatefully.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 06:24 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by DaTrooper00 View Post
(Im pretty sure that y'all will say that this is a hoax or something) But what about the book 90 minutes in heaven? He says that he went to heaven and all of that stuff(me personally have not read the book, so I probally shouldn't be talking about it, but heh.)
And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 06:34 PM   #806
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And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.
What is lucid dreaming? And also, if it wasn't "lucid" dreaming, why would a christian lie about that, to get fame?
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Old February 16th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #807
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Default Re: Religion

I call myself a Christian because I follow Christ. I've read a fair amount of replies on this thing, and most of you people I agree with. Many "churches" out there are not what they think. They see someone different, and they run away and shun you. I believe that when someone is saved who, for example is covered in tattoos, should keep getting tattoos as long as his heart is right with God. I don't care what you believe about Adam and Eve, or whatnot, just keep your heart right with God. There's a never-ending book that I could put on this post about religions, but I'll have mercy.

As for all the Christians out there, GET WITH IT!!!!! You shouldn't be afraid of falling, just go out and make disciples. "All authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them and teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always even to the very end of the age." If you read the Bible, then you will recognise these as the last words from Christ to the twelve. Do you think someone like him use his last words to say something of little importance?

All in all, I hope I've made my points, and that my fellow Christians would know that salvation is by faith alone. You can't work your way into heaven. remember those words.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #808
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Originally Posted by DaTrooper00 View Post
What is lucid dreaming? And also, if it wasn't "lucid" dreaming, why would a christian lie about that, to get fame?
Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 08:14 PM   #809
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Default Relgion is a scam

I just learned thjat mone we pay in thies is used to pay the pastor.
well that proves that relgion is a scam.
If thers ia god ill find him without religion.
Im done with organized religions.
churches are fake.

Merged with religion sticky. -thePianoMan

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Old February 16th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #810
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Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.

And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.
http://www.nderf.org/
http://www.near-death.com/

There's cases of people having vivid visions well being declared brain-dead, which kinda rules out having a dream. Hallucination or not, the near-death experience thing might be interesting to bring up here. I haven't read a lot of the websites, personally, but it could probably bring something to the argument going on here.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:20 PM   #811
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Can what they say be proven? If they are brain dead, how can they remember things happening? Why couldn't they have just had a hallucination when they came back into consciousness?
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:20 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by sorrowsingssoftly View Post

All in all, I hope I've made my points, and that my fellow Christians would know that salvation is by faith alone. You can't work your way into heaven. remember those words.
I guess you don't realize how horrible that is, what you've just said. Basically, as long as you believe in Jesus etc. you can get into heaven. Looks like Hitler is in heaven, along with Jeffrey Dahmer and countless other people who are otherwise completely evil.... but they had faith! So they're in heaven now.

You could be a serial killer, do unspeakable things... but if you repent on your death bed, you get saved.

Now when us rational people live GOOD lives, and are generally good people and treat everyone properly.... oh no. We get to burn in hell forever just because we don't have faith in the Jewish Zombie.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:26 PM   #813
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I guess you don't realize how horrible that is, what you've just said. Basically, as long as you believe in Jesus etc. you can get into heaven. Looks like Hitler is in heaven, along with Jeffrey Dahmer and countless other people who are otherwise completely evil.... but they had faith! So they're in heaven now.

You could be a serial killer, do unspeakable things... but if you repent on your death bed, you get saved.

Now when us rational people live GOOD lives, and are generally good people and treat everyone properly.... oh no. We get to burn in hell forever just because we don't have faith in the Jewish Zombie.
Lol, why do you refer to him as the Jewish Zombie all the time? And if you are a serial killer and you do unspeakable things and you repent, you do go to heaven, but when I heard this I was like are you serious? That's the most fucked up thing I heard and I think that is just stupid and Im gonna be honest with yall.. I think even if you dont believe in God and as long as you're good, you should go to heaven, but I have no say in that. And also, TCG, you made my day with your new video.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #814
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Can what they say be proven? If they are brain dead, how can they remember things happening? Why couldn't they have just had a hallucination when they came back into consciousness?
I'm guessing you can't necessarily prove them, but with the consistent themes of seeing your body, the white light, peacefulness, there could be some validity to it. Individual hallucinations might be unreliable sources, but when a group of people consistently have the same hallucinations, the possibility of a spirit could be considered.

http://www.near-death.com/triggers.html

I'm guessing they could remember things through spirit and there's no definite answer to whether they just hallucinated on awakening. I haven't read into it and I'm not defending it, I just throw things out there to put a different perspective on things aside from the normal arguments.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #815
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One person comes forward with a report of seeing the afterlife. Everyone has heard the story. It's unconscious persuasion basically.

It's a form of hypnosis. Like for instance, you can sit on a bench with a bunch of people and say...cross your legs. Eventually, nearly everyone on that bench will have their legs crossed. The mind is VERY persuaded by what you've seen or heard or whatever.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:31 PM   #816
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One person comes forward with a report of seeing the afterlife. Everyone has heard the story. It's unconscious persuasion basically.

It's a form of hypnosis. Like for instance, you can sit on a bench with a bunch of people and say...cross your legs. Eventually, nearly everyone on that bench will have their legs crossed. The mind is VERY persuaded by what you've seen or heard or whatever.
This kinda contradicts..

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Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.
that. There would have to be a study on people who are predisposed to near-death experience that experienced near-death experiences, but I see where you're coming from. You could argue that anything experienced at all is us training our mind to think, but then we go into some kind-of 'The Matrix' bullshit.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:34 PM   #817
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The Simple as that was to the question...why'd he say that, to get fame? There are several explanations for these experiences.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #818
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The Simple as that was to the question...why'd he say that, to get fame? There are several explanations for these experiences.
What do you mmean by "several explanations for these experiences?"
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #819
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What do you mmean by "several explanations for these experiences?"
I've already given several explanations for why people have had afterlife experiences. I'm not going to repeat them.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #820
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Oh, sorry.
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