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View Poll Results: What is your religion?
Agnosticism 138 13.45%
Atheism 309 30.12%
Buddhism 12 1.17%
Christianity (Please Specify) 407 39.67%
Hinduism 9 0.88%
Islam 33 3.22%
Judaism 17 1.66%
Wicca 17 1.66%
Other (Please Specify) 84 8.19%
Voters: 1026. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 9th, 2013, 02:59 AM   #2981
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Taurus View Post
How do you know? I might be spot on about your god and you could be completely off.
I don't, and neither do you. That is the idea behind faith. A teacher of mine a few years ago defined faith as "belief in the yet unseen." God can obviously be never physically proven to exist, as He does not exist in the physical world, or in our understanding of space and time for that matter. Some people argue the existence of God can be proven by logic (ie Thomas Aquina's five proofs for the existence of God) but for every argument like that there is a counter argument. So in this case, I, along with the 80-90% of the worlds population who believe in God or some sort of higher power, simply believe we are right, and no one group will ever be able to prove the other group wrong.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:10 AM   #2982
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Originally Posted by IAMWILL View Post
I don't, and neither do you. That is the idea behind faith. A teacher of mine a few years ago defined faith as "belief in the yet unseen." God can obviously be never physically proven to exist, as He does not exist in the physical world, or in our understanding of space and time for that matter. Some people argue the existence of God can be proven by logic (ie Thomas Aquina's five proofs for the existence of God) but for every argument like that there is a counter argument. So in this case, I, along with the 80-90% of the worlds population who believe in God or some sort of higher power, simply believe we are right, and no one group will ever be able to prove the other group wrong.
Well there you have it. You won't ever be proven right or wrong. That is where faith comes in. However, believing without evidence or proof is just not going to cut it. Skeptics will always want evidence and proof of something in order to believe it to be true/factual. Evidence and proof are two things that theists won't ever be able to provide.

I also think that, please correct me if i misinterpreted, you have basically said (throughout multiple posts) that you have an understanding of the unknown. Stating that you know/understand the unknown is a bit silly.

80-90 percent of the world doesn't believe in the same god or gods.
Another thing to consider is: Out of the thousands of gods created throughout history, why is any one particular god any more legitimate?
It's all about where and how you grew up. If you were born in a Muslim country and raised by Muslims, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Muslim If you were born and raised in a Hindu family, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Hindu.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #2983
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Originally Posted by Taurus View Post
Well there you have it. You won't ever be proven right or wrong. That is where faith comes in. However, believing without evidence or proof is just not going to cut it. Skeptics will always want evidence and proof of something in order to believe it to be true/factual. Evidence and proof are two things that theists won't ever be able to provide.

I also think that, please correct me if i misinterpreted, you have basically said (throughout multiple posts) that you have an understanding of the unknown. Stating that you know/understand the unknown is a bit silly.

80-90 percent of the world doesn't believe in the same god or gods.
Another thing to consider is: Out of the thousands of gods created throughout history, why is any one particular god any more legitimate?
It's all about where and how you grew up. If you were born in a Muslim country and raised by Muslims, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Muslim If you were born and raised in a Hindu family, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Hindu.
What you learn as a child will define your character and beliefs. Because the brain is growing and making tons of connections, ideas and values can be hardwired into their brains when young.
It think teaching religion to kids is not acceptable. It's basically forcing ideas upon them and forcing them to believe in something they might not want to believe in. It's basically brainwashing.
I'm glad that my parents didn't force their beliefs on me as a baby/kid. That would basically be denying my right to free beliefs.
And then the religious kids would have to live in a world where some people hate them because of it. Or live in a place where it's discriminated against.
So many wars and fighting have been brought about by religion, and I want no part of it.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #2984
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Originally Posted by Taurus View Post
Well there you have it. You won't ever be proven right or wrong. That is where faith comes in. However, believing without evidence or proof is just not going to cut it. Skeptics will always want evidence and proof of something in order to believe it to be true/factual. Evidence and proof are two things that theists won't ever be able to provide.
Yes, I just said that. No one can prove God exists or that He doesn't exist, neither side has an advantage here.

Quote:
I also think that, please correct me if i misinterpreted, you have basically said (throughout multiple posts) that you have an understanding of the unknown. Stating that you know/understand the unknown is a bit silly.
"Understand" wasn't the best word to use, "discover" fits the bill better.

Quote:
80-90 percent of the world doesn't believe in the same god or gods.
I didn't bother to do much research, but according to this 2011 Gallup poll, 92% of Americans believe in God or some sort of higher power.

Quote:
Another thing to consider is: Out of the thousands of gods created throughout history, why is any one particular god any more legitimate?
It's all about where and how you grew up. If you were born in a Muslim country and raised by Muslims, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Muslim If you were born and raised in a Hindu family, odds are you wouldn't be Christian, you would be Hindu.
You bring up a good point here. It is important to recognize that religion didn't create God, God created religion. All legitimate monotheistic churches will say the God they believe in is the same God all other monotheistic churches believe in. Religion is for interpreting what people believe God teaches, not what He is. There are not many polytheistic religions anymore, but generally all of their gods combined represent the exact same God monotheistic religions believe in. Other religions don't exactly believe in a God, but rather some sort of higher power. You don't need to be brought up in a religious family or experience religious teaching in order to discover and believe in God. I sure wasn't, my mom is atheist, and my dad, although Catholic, never had us go to Church or practice any religion at all.

On a side note, I also don't think children should be forced to believe in a certain religion. I think a lot of children, and this is huge among teenagers, become atheist/agnostic because they want to rebel from what they have been told was right for their entire lives. Its better that people are raised sans forced beliefs and allowed to discover their own beliefs, and maybe after that find a belief system that fits them.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #2985
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Yes, I just said that. No one can prove God exists or that He doesn't exist, neither side has an advantage here.


"Understand" wasn't the best word to use, "discover" fits the bill better.

I didn't bother to do much research, but according to this 2011 Gallup poll, 92% of Americans believe in God or some sort of higher power.


You bring up a good point here. It is important to recognize that religion didn't create God, God created religion. All legitimate monotheistic churches will say the God they believe in is the same God all other monotheistic churches believe in. Religion is for interpreting what people believe God teaches, not what He is. There are not many polytheistic religions anymore, but generally all of their gods combined represent the exact same God monotheistic religions believe in. Other religions don't exactly believe in a God, but rather some sort of higher power. You don't need to be brought up in a religious family or experience religious teaching in order to discover and believe in God. I sure wasn't, my mom is atheist, and my dad, although Catholic, never had us go to Church or practice any religion at all.

On a side note, I also don't think children should be forced to believe in a certain religion. I think a lot of children, and this is huge among teenagers, become atheist/agnostic because they want to rebel from what they have been told was right for their entire lives. Its better that people are raised sans forced beliefs and allowed to discover their own beliefs, and maybe after that find a belief system that fits them.
That poll is not only out of date, but it only polled 0.00027% of the US population.
Humans created religion, not a god.
I'm also pretty certain that the Bhakti god is not representational of your god. The same goes for the other thousands of gods throughout history.
Who are you to say what religions are legitimate or not?
Children and young adults will also be atheists or agnostics because they are critical thinkers and begin to question.
Also, how do you know your god is a "he"?

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Old April 9th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #2986
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That poll is not only out of date, but it only polled 0.00027% of the US population.
Humans created religion, not a god.
I'm also pretty certain that the Bhakti god is not representational of your god. The same goes for the other thousands of gods throughout history.
Who are you to say what religions are legitimate or not?
Children and young adults will also be atheists or agnostics because they are critical thinkers and begin to question.
Also, how do you know your god is a "he"?
The poll is 2 years old, that is not out of date. Look at the other info. 92% is the lowest it has even been when they polled people, every other time it has been >94%. The poll satisfies all conditions for a legitimate survey. All participants were randomly chosen, their answers were independent of one another, and the sample size was <10% of the population. If you have taken a course in statistics you will know that the poll completely qualifies to be representative of the US population. Provide an equally legitimate poll that proves this one wrong if you don't believe it.

Technically yes humans created religion, but God inspired it. I should have stated it that way.

You are still trying to portray and comprehend God as a single entity. To do so is impossible. God is love. That is one of the shortest ways I could put it to ya. I will give you a better answer later, if you would like, I'm short on time for now.

I consider any religion that subscribes to beliefs that are objectively evil as illegitimate. There is subjective truth and objective truth. Just because a person or group of people believe something is right, does not make it right. For example, slavery, although subjectively correct in the eyes of many during its time, is objective wrong. Just as murder, the killing of an innocent human being, is objectively wrong. Clearly I am not some authority on religions, but be reminded that everything I am posting is my opinion, not necessarily fact.

I never stated they wouldn't become atheists/agnostics. I have no problem with atheists, as long as they have truly given God a chance. I hope you are not suggesting that all people who are critical thinkers and ask questions about their beliefs will become atheist/agnostic.

Referring to God as "He" is practice in formal writing, whether you belief in Him or not.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #2987
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The poll is 2 years old, that is not out of date. Look at the other info. 92% is the lowest it has even been when they polled people, every other time it has been >94%. The poll satisfies all conditions for a legitimate survey. All participants were randomly chosen, their answers were independent of one another, and the sample size was <10% of the population. If you have taken a course in statistics you will know that the poll completely qualifies to be representative of the US population. Provide an equally legitimate poll that proves this one wrong if you don't believe it.

Technically yes humans created religion, but God inspired it. I should have stated it that way.

You are still trying to portray and comprehend God as a single entity. To do so is impossible. God is love. That is one of the shortest ways I could put it to ya. I will give you a better answer later, if you would like, I'm short on time for now.

I consider any religion that subscribes to beliefs that are objectively evil as illegitimate. There is subjective truth and objective truth. Just because a person or group of people believe something is right, does not make it right. For example, slavery, although subjectively correct in the eyes of many during its time, is objective wrong. Just as murder, the killing of an innocent human being, is objectively wrong. Clearly I am not some authority on religions, but be reminded that everything I am posting is my opinion, not necessarily fact.

I never stated they wouldn't become atheists/agnostics. I have no problem with atheists, as long as they have truly given God a chance. I hope you are not suggesting that all people who are critical thinkers and ask questions about their beliefs will become atheist/agnostic.

Referring to God as "He" is practice in formal writing, whether you belief in Him or not.
This is a debate thread. Bring facts.
You basically called out Christianity as being evil and illegitimate.
0.00027% is less than 10%. It's not even half a percent.
Would you please explain how you view what your god is?
Your god is not equivalent to love. If your god was love, there wouldn't be a so-called "hell". There wouldn't be all the pain and suffering that there is in the world. Your god would have the power to stop all the pain, but your god chooses not to. Your god is practically malevolent.
Why don't you refer to your god with a gender neutral or non-binary pronoun?

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Old April 10th, 2013, 02:00 AM   #2988
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Im athiest and proud. I cant change it tough

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Old April 10th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #2989
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Default Re: Religion

Correction, God created religion by creating humans. And by telling humans he was our creator, thus created religion. WE IN NO WAY IN HEAVEN OR HELL CREATED RELIGION.

That is a proven fact throughout all religions. Atheists hate on us because we are religious and sometimes unfriend us if we won't accept a point of view that means we'd have to drop our religion to accept that. What made it so wrong to have a religion? I am sure that the past 10,000 years of religion and misgivings of people that manipulated it to control others can be forgotten?

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Old April 10th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #2990
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Default Re: Religion

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This is a debate thread. Bring facts.
You basically called out Christianity as being evil and illegitimate.
0.00027% is less than 10%. It's not even half a percent.
Would you please explain how you view what your god is?
Your god is not equivalent to love. If your god was love, there wouldn't be a so-called "hell". There wouldn't be all the pain and suffering that there is in the world. Your god would have the power to stop all the pain, but your god chooses not to. Your god is practically malevolent.
Why don't you refer to your god with a gender neutral or non-binary pronoun?
I've been bringing facts the entire time, you haven't. You simply are ignoring all the facts I am showing and saying they aren't true. You also need to go study up on your statistics, the poll I presented is completely legitimate.

You clearly didn't interpret my post correctly, I did not call out Christianity as being evil and legitimate at all.

I view God as love. I see God in people and in the beauty of nature. It simply not something I can explain in one sentence.

You're wrong. God doesn't do evil, he only allows it to happen. That is the concept of free will. Again, you are trying to envision God as a big guy in the sky who personally causes disasters or famine. God doesn't control the weather or natural phenomena, or what a country's leader decides to do.

Because I follow formal writing techniques. Bring that question up with the people that formate MLA, not me.

Also, here is the Catholic Church's official view on most non-Christian religions:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_c...aetate_en.html

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Old April 10th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #2991
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God promised to never mess with our free will.

And by doing so, the world is as it is.

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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #2992
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Correction, God created religion by creating humans. And by telling humans he was our creator, thus created religion. WE IN NO WAY IN HEAVEN OR HELL CREATED RELIGION.

That is a proven fact throughout all religions. Atheists hate on us because we are religious and sometimes unfriend us if we won't accept a point of view that means we'd have to drop our religion to accept that. What made it so wrong to have a religion? I am sure that the past 10,000 years of religion and misgivings of people that manipulated it to control others can be forgotten?

~Hunter
Prove to all of us that your god created humanity and I will drop the subject. Unfortunately, you can't prove anything.
"Proven fact" is redundant.
When you said "atheists hate on us because we are religious and sometimes unfriend us if we won't accept a point of view that means we'd have to drop our religion to accept that" I practically died laughing. Don't play the victim here. You act as if there is a war on religion. You confuse a war on religion with not getting what you want.
Asking me to forget the atrocities committed by religion is kind of like asking a people to forget the history of racism. Or like asking South Africans to forget apartheid.

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I've been bringing facts the entire time, you haven't. You simply are ignoring all the facts I am showing and saying they aren't true. You also need to go study up on your statistics, the poll I presented is completely legitimate.

You clearly didn't interpret my post correctly, I did not call out Christianity as being evil and legitimate at all.

I view God as love. I see God in people and in the beauty of nature. It simply not something I can explain in one sentence.

You're wrong. God doesn't do evil, he only allows it to happen. That is the concept of free will. Again, you are trying to envision God as a big guy in the sky who personally causes disasters or famine. God doesn't control the weather or natural phenomena, or what a country's leader decides to do.

Because I follow formal writing techniques. Bring that question up with the people that formate MLA, not me.

Also, here is the Catholic Church's official view on most non-Christian religions:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_c...aetate_en.html
You have officially convinced me that your god is a giant asshole. Allowing evil to occur when one has the power to stop it, is just as evil as perpetrating the crime.


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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:38 AM   #2993
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You have officially convinced me that your god is a giant asshole. Allowing evil to occur when one has the power to stop it, is just as evil as perpetrating the crime.
Seems like you were already convinced of that before this conversation even started.

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Old April 11th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #2994
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Prove to us he didn't.

You attack my God and my religion for being an asshole like religion, and attack it for something done more than 200 years ago. Forgetting what christians did in 2000 years ago brings about more peace between them and atheists. You think your the vanguard trying to prove that Atheists are correct? Your dead wrong.

Looking at it from a neutral stand point, neither side can prove that God exists.
So excuse me if I am a giant ignorant Christian who won't accept that you just insulted my religion and God because he said he would never mess with our free will.

God is good and pure, he gave us Free Will, so he won't mess with it. We'll just see how your mind changes the day you meet him after you pass on.

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Old April 11th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #2995
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Seems like you were already convinced of that before this conversation even started.
Well, you got me there. Even though it doesn't appear to be, I did initially come to this conversation with an open mind, a willingness to be convinced otherwise. I have tried my best to maintain an open mind throughout the debate. It's really hard to do when we both probably roll our eyes at each others's posts.

In the end, it all comes down to a stalemate. When it comes to the existence of a god and its morals, neither side can prove their point. You believe your god is real, I continue to doubt your god's existence until you prove it.

When it comes to the morality of your god, things practically boil down to pure perspective. You view your god as good, I view your god as evil and vindictive.
If I were to whiteness someone being murdered or raped, I would do all in power to stop the perpetrator. I view it as the right thing to do. I would not think to myself "well, everybody has their own choices to make. Their lives, their free will." I would think more along the lines of "holy shit, that person is attacking that man/woman, I'm going to try and stop the violence."
The who/what/where/when doesn't matter, idly standing by while another suffers is a crime against the world.
That is what your god does: stands idly by while the world suffers. That is a truly heinous offense.

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Old April 11th, 2013, 09:58 PM   #2996
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Originally Posted by Hunter_Steel View Post
Correction, God created religion by creating humans. And by telling humans he was our creator, thus created religion. WE IN NO WAY IN HEAVEN OR HELL CREATED RELIGION.
Huh? Humans created religions to explain things they couldn't - before there was science. Like lightning. Or, how the sun rose and set. And how the world came to be.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #2997
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Huh? Humans created religions to explain things they couldn't - before there was science. Like lightning. Or, how the sun rose and set. And how the world came to be.
True this.

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Old April 12th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #2998
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Sorry but religion srperates everyone.

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Old April 13th, 2013, 12:52 AM   #2999
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I'm not that religious... I say I have my own kinda religion because I think that the church is full of shit, and all they want its power, and more of it, like normal human beings. My religion, only follows god and Jesus... nothing more, nothing less. I beleive in god and Jesus, but I think that the church is full of bs.
I don't agree with half their rules.
i agree. the church loves to tell people what to do when they themselves cannot even keep up with the rules that they make for the believers sitting in the congregation. honestly, they're just like everyone. i know pastors who take their kids out to movies. see, even they need to have some fun every now and then.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #3000
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Hi im roman catholic, go to church most sundays when i can, to see father paul

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