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Old February 12th, 2019, 01:11 PM   #41
Stronk Serb
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by Snowfox View Post
With slave labor government has incentive to enslave as many as possible. This leads automatically to situation where normal companies like construction companies suffer. Your system anyway has been implemented numerous times like Gulags in Russia or like in USA where prisons are private business.

How to get more prisoners then. Since murder is actually very rare to happen. Toughening laws and lengthening sentences are typical ways Just like it has been done in usa. Also wrong opinions land you into prison for most of world like in EU or Canada.

All in all most states have enslaved their population some way. Most civilized form is taxation and private money.
Yet, a very small part of the economy was taken by the Gulag system, and after Stalin, the Gulags were downgraded. The thing in USA is different, the business is to open a prison and have the state pay you to keep prisoners in. The rest of the economy didn't suffer for it.

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
You can't force someone to work against their will as slave its a human right violation, I'm guessing so is the explosive collar, in the cruel and unusual punishment category. The shock collar is not that great either. Plus you could hurt someone by making explosive collar it would also kill inmates.

You make it sound like the only two options are killing them or enslave them, its not rehabilitation is a solution that is proven to work lets go with that.
You can force people to work against their will, both in prison, and in real life, because if you do not work, you starve. What I suggest is rebailitation through labour, at least you will pick up useful skills and working habits when in prison which can lang you a job after getting out. I really doubt we should be giving drug dealers, murderers, rapists, paedophiles and other scum a cookie and a pat on the head sayin it'll be alright. Man up for your mistakes and pay back to society what you took.

On a side note, it is a very good deterrent, in the Soviet Union and successor states, when the gulag system was abolished, crime skyrocketed.

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Old February 12th, 2019, 06:41 PM   #42
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
You can force people to work against their will, both in prison, and in real life, because if you do not work, you starve. What I suggest is rebailitation through labour, at least you will pick up useful skills and working habits when in prison which can lang you a job after getting out. I really doubt we should be giving drug dealers, murderers, rapists, paedophiles and other scum a cookie and a pat on the head sayin it'll be alright. Man up for your mistakes and pay back to society what you took.
And that's wrong you shouldn't have to work to be able to meet your basic needs, that's why I'm for guaranteed basic income.

Murderers and rapists will probably never get out, and drug dealers legalise all drugs that wouldn't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
On a side note, it is a very good deterrent, in the Soviet Union and successor states, when the gulag system was abolished, crime skyrocketed.
Putting people into labour camp sure that never ends badly, look at all the great example Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea etc.

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Old February 12th, 2019, 07:38 PM   #43
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
And that's wrong you shouldn't have to work to be able to meet your basic needs, that's why I'm for guaranteed basic income.

Murderers and rapists will probably never get out, and drug dealers legalise all drugs that wouldn't be a problem.



Putting people into labour camp sure that never ends badly, look at all the great example Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea etc.
Food, money etc. doesn't fall from trees. Even in socialist countries you had to work for your keep, which is a good thing. Nobody should work to support people who do not work. Same goes for both lazy people and for prisoners. Neither money, nor food falls from the sky, you know?

Legalizing all drugs will cause much more problems than solve, sure, the government could tax it, but the amount of degeneracy, addiction problems and druggies still doing illegal stuff to get dope will not go away and increase. In the end, the costs will mount up, and in order to keep up with the trends of treating addiction, taxes would rise up, pushing the drugs to the black market to be sold untaxes, just like cigarettes today. China solved their drug problem by executing every dealer and consumer they could find publicly 50 years ago. Although, I agree it was a very harsh thing to do.

Besides, a very effevtive rehab program would be slave labour in a factory or on construction for a few years. Plus, you learn a craft you can use after you leave prison.

Also a question, have you seen heroin, cocaine, or any other hard drug addicts ever? Because if you did, you would know that those people are incapable of taking care of themselves. I knew some really good, to me dear, people who lost themselves in drugs. Some things are better left illegal.

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Old February 13th, 2019, 12:40 AM   #44
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
Food, money etc. doesn't fall from trees. Even in socialist countries you had to work for your keep, which is a good thing. Nobody should work to support people who do not work. Same goes for both lazy people and for prisoners. Neither money, nor food falls from the sky, you know?

Legalizing all drugs will cause much more problems than solve, sure, the government could tax it, but the amount of degeneracy, addiction problems and druggies still doing illegal stuff to get dope will not go away and increase. In the end, the costs will mount up, and in order to keep up with the trends of treating addiction, taxes would rise up, pushing the drugs to the black market to be sold untaxes, just like cigarettes today. China solved their drug problem by executing every dealer and consumer they could find publicly 50 years ago. Although, I agree it was a very harsh thing to do.

Besides, a very effevtive rehab program would be slave labour in a factory or on construction for a few years. Plus, you learn a craft you can use after you leave prison.

Also a question, have you seen heroin, cocaine, or any other hard drug addicts ever? Because if you did, you would know that those people are incapable of taking care of themselves. I knew some really good, to me dear, people who lost themselves in drugs. Some things are better left illegal.
Access to food, water, and shelter is a human right, forcing people to work for it is immoral and wrong.

Addiction is a mental health issue not a criminal one, criminalising and prohibition doesn't work. Portugal decriminalised drugs long ago they don't have as bad as a drug problem as other countries and are better at treating addiction. Just another example, to go back to subject, that strong punishment doesn't work either as a deterrent or actual punishment for the action of an individual.

A successful rehab program would be to train people for a job they could do after serving their sentence. The training part is good and should be part of it, but you just can't force them to work while they are in prison or as their punishment for a crime. It is a major human right violation and unless you are a western-friendly oil-rich country or Israel you would never get away with it.

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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Access to food, water, and shelter is a human right, forcing people to work for it is immoral and wrong.

Addiction is a mental health issue not a criminal one, criminalising and prohibition doesn't work. Portugal decriminalised drugs long ago they don't have as bad as a drug problem as other countries and are better at treating addiction. Just another example, to go back to subject, that strong punishment doesn't work either as a deterrent or actual punishment for the action of an individual.

A successful rehab program would be to train people for a job they could do after serving their sentence. The training part is good and should be part of it, but you just can't force them to work while they are in prison or as their punishment for a crime. It is a major human right violation and unless you are a western-friendly oil-rich country or Israel you would never get away with it.
Why is it immoral? Because a piece of paper says so? Pieces of paper also say drugs are bad etc. yet you still think they are not bad. Why should one piece of paper be respected, and the other not?

Portugal decriminalized weed, you can still get in trouble for other drugs.

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Old February 13th, 2019, 08:18 AM   #46
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by hayley2003 View Post
At school we talked about this in one of classes. More and more studies have shown that the death penalty does not reduce crime. Like practically, never. Taking that as an assumption, what value does does the death penalty serve, what are the Pros and Cons?
First, you blame someone for killing and then you do the same to him. That doesn't sound logical to me

And more importantly, justice errors do occur and some people were sentenced to death while they were innocent.
There was a case 2 or 3 months ago (in the US I think) of a black guy who was in jail for years and they realized the real murderer was another guy looking exactly like him (same face same haircut same size)
What if the wrong guy had already been executed before they found out?

So I'm definitely against it, even though 90% of them would be a good riddance for the world
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Old February 13th, 2019, 11:32 AM   #47
mattsmith48
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
Why is it immoral? Because a piece of paper says so? Pieces of paper also say drugs are bad etc. yet you still think they are not bad. Why should one piece of paper be respected, and the other not?
That piece of paper is called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Quote:
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
That piece of paper is what makes it illegal. Anyone with a sense of morality knows that slavery is immoral.

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Originally Posted by Stronk Serb View Post
Portugal decriminalized weed, you can still get in trouble for other drugs.
You can Google this shit ya know.

Quote:
In 2001, Portugal became the first country to decriminalise the possession and consumption of all illicit substances.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48
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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:50 PM   #48
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Exclamation Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Access to food, water, and shelter is a human right, forcing people to work for it is immoral and wrong.
So we should give food or give money to buy food to people who just sit around, doing nothing, waiting to be served?
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Old February 13th, 2019, 04:35 PM   #49
mattsmith48
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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So we should give food or give money to buy food to people who just sit around, doing nothing, waiting to be served?
I wouldn't put it in that way, but yes

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Old February 13th, 2019, 08:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: Death Penalty: Pros and Cons

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You are thinking with the morality, I think rational. We have a bit too many people on this planet who contributes nothing to society. Why then not use them for the sake of the future? Besides, progress has always needed sacrifices. And people don't change. He did crime once, he will commit another later. And rehab is not about comfort and the world in pink glasses. In rehab you need to understand what you have done, you need to deal with the conseauences your actions, you need to acknowledge that and you can't really do that sitting in room where there is PC, TV, comfy bed etc. It's not a puishment, it's a vacation...
That is one of scariest things I have read on VT. What's-his-name's, "Final Solution". Eliminate all the are deemed "unworthy" throughout the world. It's not personal, it is logical and practical, justified based on logical thinking. Let's start a list.
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