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View Poll Results: Do you believe in God
yes 24 52.17%
no 22 47.83%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 25th, 2004, 04:06 PM   #41
TheWizard
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Show me proof jesus ever lived. Only one mention of him in history (the bible) and that was written a 100 years after he died.


Don't you think there would have been many mentions of a man who rose from the dead and cured people. He couldn't even save his own life.

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Old June 25th, 2004, 09:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWizard
Show me proof jesus ever lived. Only one mention of him in history (the bible) and that was written a 100 years after he died.


Don't you think there would have been many mentions of a man who rose from the dead and cured people. He couldn't even save his own life.
Not tru, u obviously dont know much about the biblical stuff. Archiolagists(sorry if spelt wrong) have proff that a man named Jesus lived and went to the places he did in tht time. The part you have to believe urself is the miracles. ANd im pretty sure the letters (books of the bible) was writin pretty close as it happend...but that part im not sure.

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Old June 25th, 2004, 10:19 PM   #43
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i think its wrong to call this post jesus...im jewish and i believe in god but i dont believe the stuff bout jesus...if the post is gunna be cause do you believe in god than make it that...it the question do u believe jesus is the son of god....than its the right title but i definatly think its the wrong title
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Old June 26th, 2004, 12:54 AM   #44
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yea really, God and Jesus are way different exspecially in religions. illegalsk8ing, what do jewish people believe along the lines of Jesus? A.i-Do u believe he existed and all taht jazz?

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Old June 26th, 2004, 12:57 AM   #45
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ohh he existed....he was jewish....his last meal was passover...just we believe that who is this random guy who jsut happened to be really nice and cool....is crucified (which a lot of people were back then) and people find him special and say hes the son of god...of somone did that today they would be like...phhht look a this loser thinking hes the son of god..
Im sure jesus was a cool guy and i have nothing against him...but i dont believe he was what people say he was
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Old June 26th, 2004, 01:21 AM   #46
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yea, thats kool i guess for u. Not my religion or NEthing but OK. The jewish bible doesnt have the new testiment right?

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Old June 26th, 2004, 01:23 AM   #47
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correct....we only have the old testimate which u have too but u also have the new one which we dont believe in
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Old June 26th, 2004, 01:29 AM   #48
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tiz what i thought. i no itz not ur religion but ur missing out...the new testiment is kool and alot more interesting

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Old June 26th, 2004, 01:34 AM   #49
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naw....i dont even read the bible....just some stroies are cool in the old testimate like leasing the jews out of egypt (parting of the "SEA OF READS" not the dead sea.....bad translation from hebrew to english)
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Old June 26th, 2004, 11:54 PM   #50
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I believe in god, but I'm still trying to discover what religion I
really want to be. Really, I don't think people should have religions if it causes them to fight amongst eachother.
 
Old July 11th, 2004, 11:40 PM   #51
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Default Well no offence but this is a stupid debate

This is a stupid debate because i'm a Satanist better get goin lata.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 02:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWizard
Show me proof jesus ever lived. Only one mention of him in history (the bible) and that was written a 100 years after he died.


Don't you think there would have been many mentions of a man who rose from the dead and cured people. He couldn't even save his own life.
There sure are many written texts appart from the Bible that talk about jesus. The Gnostic gospels talk about him (despite having a different viewpoint on the whole situation) as well as many genealogies including him.

As for prophesies about his life, he was profesied to be born in the house of Jesse, in the family of King David, to a Virgin, in a Manger, in the town of Bethlehem. It was prophesied that he would die on a cross, and raise from the dead in three days. There are hundreds of them- and they all came true. Coinsidence, or proof that He existed?

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 11:52 AM   #53
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but who prophisised it? wasnt it the guys that wrote the bible that said all those things? maybe there was now jesus but ppl that made a religion, oh and did you notice almost all of the religious leaders were introdused at the same time? also all of the religions have basicaly the same bible. and also if the pope can speak directly to god, why did he go on the crusades and do exactly what hitler tryed to do? also i expect his body to still be there, and of course other writings about hinm made in the time he was alive. and why did he come then? nothing big was happening, if god is really out there and is watching over us, why doesnt he stop evil dictartors? if you pray to god, to help you win the lottery good luck. god could care less about you. also i got a problem with that whole virgin mary thing, i highly doubt that any married couple would refrain from having sex throughout there lives. and also nowadays because of how messed up its got, if someone tried to tell a married couple they were to have the child of god, the husband would pull out his shotgun and blow his head off! i believe there is a god, but no divine creation of his. also that god is not a person. he is a thing, everything, you cant talk to him, have ask him to save you, help you, anything. god does not care about you, me, anyone. also if its true it all started with adem and eve then how were they able to tlak? its been proven that no writen or spoken language was persent for thousands of years after humans came into existance. as i believe it the uneverse was blank, nothing, then a sound, a sngle wave came through, and thus that disturbance created the world, and do you know what that one wave was? god. now why was there a wave? you tell me, also tell me why i am wrong, tell me why there is now proof that jesus did not appear in nonformal writings until after 100 years of his death. and i'll tell you how that is just bull, religious banter, and that even evoplution of the dinosaurs and geoledgy aslo prooves that the bible was wrong. but what i want to see is solid proof that jesus is real. teach me the way jesus was supposed to.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 11:53 AM   #54
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Well, you still can't give me any proof against him, and in the legal system, lack of proof doesn't qualify as proof against an idea.

All us Christians have our faith, because we know that Jesus loves us (he loves you too) and we want that love, and love him back. And through his grace, we are forgiven of our sins, and have a place in heaven.

I know you can choose whether to accept the grace or not, but it is always there, and at any time during your life, you can accept Him and let Him into your heart.

That is all the proof I need.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 12:06 PM   #55
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thats why i dont believe, there is much proof that he is did not exist, frankly the lack of proof he that he existed is proof that he did not exist and also i dont believe because that is the reason you said right there, some fat bald guy says somthing and you make it your way of life, you blindly follow somone that claims to know more than you, hmmm who did that to, oh just about every man that tryies to become a leader...why? because we are humans even the faithfulist of chrticians want all the power they can get, the pope is a prime example, now like hundreds of years ago, the pope could say somthing and then its gold, no questions asked, and that is not how i want to live my life.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 03:11 PM   #56
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There are a lot of statements that can come into question from the three previous posts. I'll answer some of them. First, the big question "Why does God let bad things happen" or, "Why do bad things happen to good people".

This is a matter of choices people make in their lives. You can not mess with the free will of others, and God will not mess with free will either. If Mao Zedong (who was much worse than Hitler) decided to kill 100 million people, that was his own terrible free will. God is all powerful, but he has given us the power of free will, and that is why sin exists, and that is why bad things do happen. Would you want God to take free will away from you?

Now, asking God about selfish things, such as winning the lottery. Yes, God answers every prayer to win the lottery. He just answers "no" to most of them. Why would God want to endulge your selfish desires? That selfishness comes from the Devil.

Also, about you doubting that a married couple could refrain from sex, it's not hard. They hadn't been a couple for a long while. You can't say that everyone is as taken by sex as you might be. It used to be a much different thing, with more rules and regulations guarding it.

Also, you claim that no writings mention Jesus until the 130's AD. However, the words of John Mark talk about Jesus possibly around the 50s AD. There are other writings, especially genealogies, that were completed with his name at the time of his birth. Those records are still available today.

You want to see solid proof that Jesus is real, but I refer you to the memorable seen between Jesus and Thomas. 10 of the 11 are worshiping together (after the resurection), and Jesus reveals himself to them. Thomas is not there (as well as Judas the Iscariot, but he was dead), and doubts that Jesus actually did appear, and needed proof that he was resurected. Jesus appeared and told him to put his finger in his hands, and put his hand into his side. Then Jesus said "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed". Jesus knew it would be hard for many people to believe, but he knew that there would be many who would find his grace without using their sense of sight.

And to one more point brought up, three men writing the Bible? I can name Abraham, David, Solomon, James (brother of Jesus), Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and Isaiah off the top of my head. There is also Moses, Elezar (son of Aaron), Joshua, Nathan, Gad, Samuel, Ezra, Nehamiah (my favorite prophet), King Lemuel, Agur son of Jakeh, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Amos... The list continues. Many of them wrote the books bearing their names, and many contributed to portions of one book. They all have evidence to support their writing a piece of the Bible.

Now, there is a bit of Pope bashing on here. One: The Pope is only a Catholic, and does not represent many Christians (such as myself). Two: The Pope does speak directly to God, but so can everyone else.

I hate arguing all the specifics about my religion. Yes, I do know them, and I do have proof of events in the Bible, and the such, but it doesn't help anyone. Does it bring you closer to Jesus? No. Maybe some day you will come to need Jesus Christ. He'll always be there for you. Maybe His grace alone is what can bring you closer to Him.

God Bless all of you- even if you don't want a blessing.

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Old July 12th, 2004, 04:28 PM   #57
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lol

I find your argument full of claims but no proof. Jesus didn't exist. Where are the evidence you speak of in other writings (not the bible)?

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Old July 12th, 2004, 10:46 PM   #58
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He is mentioned twice in The Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus in A.D. 94. The death of James, the brother of Jesus, and John the Baptist are also mentioned.

He is also mentioned by the following historians/writers:
Cornelius Tacitus, Governor of Asia, in A.D. 112.
Seutonius, Roman historian, in A.D. 125
Pliny the Younger, Governor of Bithynia (Turkey) in A.D. 112
Lucian of Samosata in the 2nd century A.D.
A Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion in a letter to his son, comparing Jesus with Socrates and Pythagoras.
In 215 A.D. Julius Africanus recorded the writing of a historian named Thallus who wrote in A.D. 52. Thallus recorded the supernatural darkness which came upon the earth at Passover in A.D. 32. Many have dismissed this darkness as an eclipse, but a normal eclipse cannot occur during a full moon, and Passover takes place during the full moon. Phlegon from Lydia wrote in @138 A.D. about this darkness and when it occurred. Tertullian wrote that the event was recorded in the Roman archives and that the record could still be consulted in his day.
In A.D. 325, Eusebius quotes Hegesippus, about an interview with the descendants of the brothers and sisters of Jesus @A.D. 81-96.
Jesus and some of his disciples are referred to in the Jewish Talmud.

Are those enough references? There are more if you'd like them.

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Old July 13th, 2004, 01:51 AM   #59
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And none of these so called references were writen during his life time.

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Old July 13th, 2004, 10:35 AM   #60
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Generally when people write histories, they write them after the fact. Just because my history book was written in 1998 doesn't mean that everything that happened beforehand isn't true. Many of the writers were alive to be around during His death. There also weren't many Christians yet, and His impact on the world wasn't fully relealized yet. Remember- there were only 5000 Christians when Peter first tried to establish a church after the resurection.

Do you think Peter and Paul's words spurred on a Secular writer, such as those listed above, to write about Jesus? A secular writer doesn't write about religion, and is a factual as can be without bias- why would they write about Jesus unless he was truely around?

But that's sill not proof enough for you, so how about this- The Secular Historian Seneca was born about three years before Jesus. He was alive for every event in Jesus's life, and lived 30 years longer, to see the early church form. He makes a reference to Jesus as well. So, dispute this one.

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