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Old February 8th, 2019, 06:26 AM   #21
lliam
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

There are 4 male Muslims among my kindred. They married some of my cousins but they didn't grow up in the Islamic world. So I would say they are proper assimilated.

And if I look at their relatives, those folks seem to be all liberal and such. Also they don't come from uneducated families.

Education certainly isn't a guarantee that a person integrates within a foreign culture properly, but in my opinion it's a very good condition that assimilation still happens in some way anyway.





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Old February 9th, 2019, 01:14 PM   #22
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There are 4 male Muslims among my kindred. They married some of my cousins but they didn't grow up in the Islamic world. So I would say they are proper assimilated.

And if I look at their relatives, those folks seem to be all liberal and such. Also they don't come from uneducated families.

Education certainly isn't a guarantee that a person integrates within a foreign culture properly, but in my opinion it's a very good condition that assimilation still happens in some way anyway.

That’s makes sense because to an extent, the mistreatment of women, and the promotion of excellence in education is mutually incompatible with what history and science shows women CAN achieve. At best they have to change the narrative debate claim from a “woman can’t do ___” to “a women shouldn’t do ____” and that’s a big change as opposed to 100+ years ago.
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Old February 9th, 2019, 02:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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Stoning women under sharia law for claiming they we're raped. or how about "smite the unbelivers necks". beat that.
Where does it say that rape victims should be stoned to death?

The Bible call for the killing of non-believers and believers in other Gods. Almost every religion do, Gods don't like competition, they want a monopoly.

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There are 4 male Muslims among my kindred. They married some of my cousins but they didn't grow up in the Islamic world. So I would say they are proper assimilated.

And if I look at their relatives, those folks seem to be all liberal and such. Also they don't come from uneducated families.

Education certainly isn't a guarantee that a person integrates within a foreign culture properly, but in my opinion it's a very good condition that assimilation still happens in some way anyway.
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That’s makes sense because to an extent, the mistreatment of women, and the promotion of excellence in education is mutually incompatible with what history and science shows women CAN achieve. At best they have to change the narrative debate claim from a “woman can’t do ___” to “a women shouldn’t do ____” and that’s a big change as opposed to 100+ years ago.
Plus education is how you can get people to start doubting the religion and eventually leave which is never a bad thing no matter the religion.

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Old February 9th, 2019, 05:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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Where does it say that rape victims should be stoned to death?

The Bible call for the killing of non-believers and believers in other Gods. Almost every religion do, Gods don't like competition, they want a monopoly.
Quran 2:223 – “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will…”
An Islamic equvilant of a hall pass? If only.

Ishaq 969“Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their persons.”
Well well well, what do we have here?

Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery. (quoted from the religion of peace.com, as they say it far better than I)

would you be as thorough as to qoute the verse in the bible that calls for this? with context please, AKA no old testiment stuff that gets retconed by the new testimant.

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Old February 9th, 2019, 09:20 PM   #25
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Quran 2:223 – “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will…”
An Islamic equvilant of a hall pass? If only.

Ishaq 969“Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their persons.”
Well well well, what do we have here?

Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery. (quoted from the religion of peace.com, as they say it far better than I)

would you be as thorough as to qoute the verse in the bible that calls for this? with context please, AKA no old testiment stuff that gets retconed by the new testimant.
I was actually going to go with Hinduism, another religion that treats women as property. After Islam they are 2nd in honour killings in world today in which you kill a (more often than not, female) family member for bringing shame and dishonour to your family for doing things like, adultery, divorce, homosexuality, leaving the religion or getting raped.

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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:40 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

Leave Europe to white and send all muslims to their deserts where they belong. Islam is a conservative and radical religion. Christianity is more liberal. On the example of political parties we very well know that conservatives and liberals can't peacfully coexist. So, if you don't want another crusade, we should live separetely.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

I'm no fan of Islam, to say the least, but I don't judge Muslims individually. Some manage to adjust and fit in nicely, while others cling to their caveman culture.

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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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So, if you don't want another crusade, we should live separetely.

Since the West is still interested in oil from the Middle East, such a separation can not be realized. Therefore, a peaceful coexistence in the long run is a global inevitability.


Goes for the conservative and liberal parties too.





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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:55 AM   #29
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Leave Europe to white and send all muslims to their deserts where they belong. Islam is a conservative and radical religion. Christianity is more liberal. On the example of political parties we very well know that conservatives and liberals can't peacfully coexist. So, if you don't want another crusade, we should live separetely.
So why are all right wing nuts and conservatives in the west almost always associate themselves and practice some form of Christianity?

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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:58 AM   #30
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Since the West is still interested in oil from the Middle East, such a separation can not be realized. Therefore, a peaceful coexistence in the long run is a global inevitability.


Goes for the conservative and liberal parties too.
West is investing more and more in the "green" energy, researching new sources and ways. In the next 20 years or so, Middle East will enjoy bathing in their oil on their own.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 02:03 AM   #31
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So why are all right wing nuts and conservatives in the west almost always associate themselves and practice some form of Christianity?
I'm a right wing and atheist... The right wing originally was designed to keep the historical traditions and familly values. From history we know that family values were dictated by the religion and that view has been saved till modern days. And not everyone in the right are believers. The majority are agnostics or atheists and they are interested in keeping original family and national values. However, the nutsacks on the left are living in their delusions and utopias of multiculturalisms, absolute freedom and socialism...
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Old February 11th, 2019, 02:08 AM   #32
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I'm a right wing and atheist... The right wing originally was designed to keep the historical traditions and familly values. From history we know that family values were dictated by the religion and that view has been saved till modern days. And not everyone in the right are believers. The majority are agnostics or atheists and they are interested in keeping original family and national values. However, the nutsacks on the left are living in their delusions and utopias of multiculturalisms, absolute freedom and socialism...
Oh yeah those crazy people on the left looking for fairness and freedom, we must avoid that.

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Old February 11th, 2019, 02:14 AM   #33
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Oh yeah those crazy people on the left looking for fairness and freedom, we must avoid that.
Humans must be controlled. Set humans free, they will burn the whole world down. And yes, leftists are not only crazy but they are also morons, living in a delusions of quadrillion genders, always relying on their feelings and morality, pushing their multicultural agenda... Right wing on the other hand is trying to do the right thing, trying to save values and a healthy society... And life is about to be unfair...
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Old February 11th, 2019, 02:38 AM   #34
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West is investing more and more in the "green" energy, researching new sources and ways. In the next 20 years or so, Middle East will enjoy bathing in their oil on their own.
The West already has sufficient knowledge in the field of green technologies to be able be at least 60% independent of oil as natural resource just today.

But the weak-minded decision-makers in business and politics do little to invest more in the necessary infrastructure, so that this technology can be used effectively here and now and in the near or far future. Certainly because that would significantly reduce the profit that the economy is currently achieving from using oil in general.

Therefore, I don't rely on the so often propagated "fact" that a lot will change in 20 years. And if I believe the wailing of some business leaders, the profit margins are often not that high anymore. Therefore, oil will continue to shape the today's era for several decades.





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Old February 11th, 2019, 12:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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Humans must be controlled. Set humans free, they will burn the whole world down. And yes, leftists are not only crazy but they are also morons, living in a delusions of quadrillion genders, always relying on their feelings and morality, pushing their multicultural agenda... Right wing on the other hand is trying to do the right thing, trying to save values and a healthy society... And life is about to be unfair...
Can you please keep this out of my question? We are talking about Islam and Western Civilization not polarizing left vs. right garbage. @mattsmith48 too, come on. I don't want this question to be locked.

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Since the West is still interested in oil from the Middle East, such a separation can not be realized. Therefore, a peaceful coexistence in the long run is a global inevitability.
There is notable hypocrisy in the West getting involved in various Middle East conflicts and then demanding that Muslims stay where they are. "We're going to disrupt your country, bomb it with drones, create refugees, but don't any of you dare come here".

There is a unique situation with certain countries like France, who colonized Muslim countries like Algeria and Tunisia, and during that time many Muslims from those countries came to France and formed Muslim communities there. It's a tall order to colonize another country and then demand that people from that country stay away from your country and culture.

This kind of intervention is going to lead to immigration. If we want to Muslims to stay out of our countries (not speaking for myself), then we need to stay out of theirs.

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I was actually going to go with Hinduism, another religion that treats women as property. After Islam they are 2nd in honour killings in world today in which you kill a (more often than not, female) family member for bringing shame and dishonour to your family for doing things like, adultery, divorce, homosexuality, leaving the religion or getting raped.
Right. I'm not the type who would argue that all religions are the same. All or most religions have certain things in common: they teach a proper way to live and they teach that violence is sometimes acceptable, etc. Any religion can be used to justify violence, but it is possible that some religions, like Islam, can more easily be used to justify violence? That's a question that's not easy to answer, but I think it would be an interesting discussion.

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Old February 11th, 2019, 01:06 PM   #36
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Right. I'm not the type who would argue that all religions are the same. All or most religions have certain things in common: they teach a proper way to live and they teach that violence is sometimes acceptable, etc. Any religion can be used to justify violence, but it is possible that some religions, like Islam, can more easily be used to justify violence? That's a question that's not easy to answer, but I think it would be an interesting discussion.
Islam is seen as being more prone to be used to justify violence mostly because of how western media portrait that part of the world and Islam in general. All religions have been and can be used to justify violence, and that's what my point was name anything from Islam that is seen as not compatible with western civilisation and I'll show you a religion we see as compatible having the exact same thing.

Western civilisation is about distancing ourselves from religion to form a secular society. We turned religion into a private thing where we allow people to follow and believe any crazy shit they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or infringe someone else's rights. That's what people coming from places where religion is the law of the land like the Middle East or the Bible Belt must understand.

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Old February 12th, 2019, 01:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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There is a unique situation with certain countries like France, who colonized Muslim countries like Algeria and Tunisia, and during that time many Muslims from those countries came to France and formed Muslim communities there. It's a tall order to colonize another country and then demand that people from that country stay away from your country and culture.

This kind of intervention is going to lead to immigration. If we want to Muslims to stay out of our countries (not speaking for myself), then we need to stay out of theirs.
It's only a very biased point of view said by many of the Arabs.


Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) has historically been the place of the Berbers. And it has been colonised, partially or totally, many times.

It was first colonised by Phoenicia (current Liban).

Then Carthago (current Carthage in Tunisia), founded by Phoenicians, became independant and controlled most of Western Mediterranea.

Then the Romans defeated Carthago and colonised their territory.

Then the Germanic Vandals defeated the Romans and controlled a part of their former territory.

Then the Byzantine Empire (based in Constantinople, current Istanbul in Turkey) invaded it.

Then Muslim Arabs from Arabia came and invaded North Africa, defeating the Berbers and forcing them to convert to Islam, killing those who didn't convert or using them as slaves.

Then the Ottoman Empire (current Turkey) invaded Tunisia and parts of Algeria.

Then the French actually defeated the Ottoman Empire in these places and colonised Algeria and Tunisia. The the French left.



So now, who is the real invader? Ask the millions of Berbers, such as Kabyles, in Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. They have fought for centuries to get rid of the Arabs. They are still fighting to have their rights recognised with political movements, strikes, violent demonstrations and uprisings.

Hundreds of Berbers have been killed, thousands have been injured, thousands have been arrested (if not tens of thousands injured and arrested, there is a lack of reliable numbers) by the Arab governments in the past decades. About 120 killed and 5000 injured in Kabylie in Algeria alone in 2001.

Just saying. It's a tall order to colonise another country and then criticise another country which does the same. Spain, France and Italy only colonised places which had already been invaded by the Arabs.

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Old February 13th, 2019, 07:30 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

I wouldn't digg too deeply into the past. Our nowadays timelime seems far enough to me to be cited. Many empires arose and fell.

Arabs of today only take up their glory days, as folks in other colonial powers do. It's all melancholy, nothing more. And that's it, because todays descendants have no other relation to the past any more but the glorified history.

We have to learn to get over it. And here, we already have what we all have in common. It should only need to be uttered more often so that it'll becoming a thing in our collective consciousness.

All in all we are compatible, because we are humans. It's just the will to accept that which is missing. Or in other words: We all live, cry and die. What's missing is just the chill over the drill.





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Old February 13th, 2019, 08:38 AM   #39
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Exclamation Re: Is Islam compatible with Western civilization?

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Leave Europe to white and send all muslims to their deserts where they belong. Islam is a conservative and radical religion
My gf and her parents are muslims, they were raised in UK, and they're not extremist, like 90% of them. they belong here. They are just as English as I am

So I think it would be better if YOU and your racist ideas were sent in the desert and stay there
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Old February 13th, 2019, 06:12 PM   #40
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.

Just saying. It's a tall order to colonise another country and then criticise another country which does the same. Spain, France and Italy only colonised places which had already been invaded by the Arabs.
Your tangent was very historically informative but doesn't really answer his point about the colonisation of African countries being the causation behind mass African migration to France. The exact same is true for Britain: after WW2, Britain lacked the men to makeup a large workfroce to get Britain back on its feet and so invited thousands if not millions of citizens of its old (and, at the time, current) colonies to come over and fill that space in the economy. When you colonise a place and declare it no different to the native country, you allow migration of colonised people to come back to the motherland in return.
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