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Old February 21st, 2019, 10:17 AM   #61
Lucy G
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by EvaNL View Post
Of course the EU has to change things, but leaving the EU is just plain stupid. Sure, very short term it gives a powerful feeling ("Hah! Look what we did!"), but middle and long term it costs a LOT of money (and even short term it costs a LOT of money). People tend to think very short term and forget long term.

And the fact that these elected EU politicians are not elected at all: where did you get that nonsense? There are EU elections every 5 years. The next one being the end of May this year.
And if you do a bad job as a EU member of parliament, you do not "have a job for life".
But again, yes, the EU has to change many things.
I spoke to my father about this. He has a very close friend who works in BRU almost next door to the EU HQ. A number of times this friend has been invited to participate in seminars which seem to turn into a bribe for some sort of confidence vote. I don't have (or pretend to understand) the exact details, but safe to imply that corruption exists (as it does everywhere I guess). As for the job for life, said friend also has had it confirmed that unless one of these people is found to be criminally active, they have a job (and pension) until they more or less die.

I'm not sure who votes for these people. Do we as a country?

Any escape might help to smooth
the unattractive truth
But the suburbs hold no charms to soothe
the restless dreams of youth
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Old February 21st, 2019, 10:31 AM   #62
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Lucy G View Post
I spoke to my father about this. He has a very close friend who works in BRU almost next door to the EU HQ. A number of times this friend has been invited to participate in seminars which seem to turn into a bribe for some sort of confidence vote. I don't have (or pretend to understand) the exact details, but safe to imply that corruption exists (as it does everywhere I guess). As for the job for life, said friend also has had it confirmed that unless one of these people is found to be criminally active, they have a job (and pension) until they more or less die.

I'm not sure who votes for these people. Do we as a country?
Corruption is everywhere indeed. Also in the UK government (and the Dutch, and the EU). And that has to be addressed, no doubt about that.

They don't have a job for life. They can simply be voted out, or not be put on the election list at all. As for a pension: as far as I know that's true. As it is in the UK and every other country in the EU (and elsewhere).

Every EU citizen (18 and over and not being excluded by law) is eligible to vote. Just like national elections. You go to a polling station and vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_E...ament_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electi...ean_Parliament

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Old February 21st, 2019, 11:01 AM   #63
Lucy G
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by EvaNL View Post
Corruption is everywhere indeed. Also in the UK government (and the Dutch, and the EU). And that has to be addressed, no doubt about that.

They don't have a job for life. They can simply be voted out, or not be put on the election list at all. As for a pension: as far as I know that's true. As it is in the UK and every other country in the EU (and elsewhere).

Every EU citizen (18 and over and not being excluded by law) is eligible to vote. Just like national elections. You go to a polling station and vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_E...ament_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electi...ean_Parliament
The whole scheme sounds like a huge mess to me, and jobs for the boys!
I can understand totally the idea of a trading position (which the EEC used to be I think) but it seems to have become a huge dog's dinner when political and monetary integration were introduced. The Euro has hardly done Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal much good.

Any escape might help to smooth
the unattractive truth
But the suburbs hold no charms to soothe
the restless dreams of youth
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Old February 21st, 2019, 11:22 AM   #64
EvaNL
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Lucy G View Post
The whole scheme sounds like a huge mess to me, and jobs for the boys!
I can understand totally the idea of a trading position (which the EEC used to be I think) but it seems to have become a huge dog's dinner when political and monetary integration were introduced. The Euro has hardly done Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal much good.
Like I said: a lot still has to change. The EU is far from perfect, but international cooperation is necessary. Leaving the EU is a huge step backwards and its effects will be felt throughout Europe for decades.

Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal have greatly benefited from the Euro (investments, trade, subsidies, tourism, etc). However, their governments have systematically made the numbers look good while they weren't, in order not to be punished by the EU. Their financial mismanagement has nothing to do with the Euro; it would have surfaced sooner or later with their own currency too (and the consequences for those countries would have been WAY worse than with the EU backing them).
Of course, the EU should not have believed them on their blue eyes, but should have checked (not just those countries, all of them) the books more carefully.

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Old March 17th, 2019, 02:49 PM   #65
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Default Re: Brexit

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The best thing that can happen in my opinion, is that there is another referendum in the UK where the majority votes Remain. Then all this nonsense (although it has cost a lot of money already) can be rectified, the UK stays in the EU and we're all together moving forward from there.
LOL ! that would be saying to the citizens "sorry guys you didn't vote the way we wanted, so please vote again, and this time vote like we want" LOL

people vowed their opinion, going against what they said is not democracy
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Old March 18th, 2019, 09:47 AM   #66
ShineintheDark
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Default Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by ChrisA1998 View Post
LOL ! that would be saying to the citizens "sorry guys you didn't vote the way we wanted, so please vote again, and this time vote like we want" LOL

people vowed their opinion, going against what they said is not democracy
Your point would absolutely stand if this referendum would have taken place like a week after the first. But it's been nearly 3 years now - the British public now KNOW what leaving the EU looks like, they KNOW what the deal on the table is and they now arguably have the right to have their personal views heard. Think of it like buying a house: 3 years ago the public declared they're not happy with the house they have and want to move. Fair enough, nothing wrong with that if that's what they really want. Now, we've viewed the new house, we've taken a look at the price and we've weighed what we will get out of it and what sacrifices we have to make to get this new house. A referendum now isn't asking 'do you wanna move house?' it's asking 'is this what you want or should we explore other houses?'
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