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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:10 PM   #1
Nicky47
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Default It seems

It seems most pro trump threads here get locked or deleted and i know many of my pro trump posts have been deleted and i was frozen for a week for breaking rules that arent even in the actual sites rules page (i spent the week following the appeal process but was ignored ) the supposed reason for my ban was for name calling others yet i was called a baby killer for supporting the immigrant policy and that member wasnt frozen

My point being that for a site that prides itself in open mindness they clearly seem to try to censor those who stand up for their beliefs and look the other way on others jus sayin the rules say you cant name call troll threaten or bash people i was banned for 'name calling' yet when i looked for any evidence it was all deleted but the posts calling me names still exist with no repurcussions

I think VT needs to really review who mods this page as it seems yet again personal opinion has clouded their mod dutys

Confuse a liberal,use facts and logic


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Last edited by Nicky47; July 12th, 2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: It seems

Trump pages, whether pro or anti, are just mega poisonous and never lead to any legitimate or meaningful discussion so I see why every single one gets banned. They always descend into the same few people bickering meaninglessly. I cannot verify if there were double standards at play to do with your suspension but I can verify that the discussions you have taken part in have been toxic and often do descend into namecalling on often both sides and so, even if you feel that you are being treated unfairly, the best you can do is try and fix YOUR style and approach and hope others will do the same.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:46 PM   #3
Nicky47
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Default Re: It seems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
Trump pages, whether pro or anti, are just mega poisonous and never lead to any legitimate or meaningful discussion so I see why every single one gets banned. They always descend into the same few people bickering meaninglessly. I cannot verify if there were double standards at play to do with your suspension but I can verify that the discussions you have taken part in have been toxic and often do descend into namecalling on often both sides and so, even if you feel that you are being treated unfairly, the best you can do is try and fix YOUR style and approach and hope others will do the same.
Debates in of themselves will draw heated conversation especially politics but the site has been very inconsistent in its policing again i was called a baby killer,reported it to mods as im supposed to but i was the one penalized either make the rules adapt to the nature of debates police it equally and unbiased or delete the who page because clearly the intent of this page has been lost but im not happy being made an example of when the other side is free to say what they want with no repurcussions (one report i was told to 'worry about myself ')

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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:50 PM   #4
ShineintheDark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky47 View Post
Debates in of themselves will draw heated conversation especially politics but the site has been very inconsistent in its policing again i was called a baby killer,reported it to mods as im supposed to but i was the one penalized either make the rules adapt to the nature of debates police it equally and unbiased or delete the who page because clearly the intent of this page has been lost but im not happy being made an example of when the other side is free to say what they want with no repurcussions (one report i was told to 'worry about myself ')
As you may have noticed, my involvement in this part of the forum has been pretty much non-existent beyond simply reading and occasionally liking posts. That's because I no longer feel that I can manage in this heated, dichotomy of an atmosphere and so chose to remove myself before I got dragged into the bickering. If you feel that the mods aren't fair to you and that everyone is getting away with attacking you, maybe you should just end your contributions too. It doesn't mean you have to leave, just post only when you feel it's absolutely necessary and resist the urge to respond if any response you get is insulting and unhelpful.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:23 PM   #5
Nicky47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
As you may have noticed, my involvement in this part of the forum has been pretty much non-existent beyond simply reading and occasionally liking posts. That's because I no longer feel that I can manage in this heated, dichotomy of an atmosphere and so chose to remove myself before I got dragged into the bickering. If you feel that the mods aren't fair to you and that everyone is getting away with attacking you, maybe you should just end your contributions too. It doesn't mean you have to leave, just post only when you feel it's absolutely necessary and resist the urge to respond if any response you get is insulting and unhelpful.
Thats the problem though why should one entire belief system feel uncomfortable posting here for fear of bans is that not the iron fist the other half complains of so much? Regardless my interest in the page has dwindled bc of this i can do other enjoyable things and not be called names

Btw this post isnt to flame or troll its just pointing out inconsistencies and calling for a change something that is well within the rules(trust me i read them

Posts merged. Use the edit button next time. ~Mars

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Last edited by Sailor Mars; July 13th, 2018 at 10:08 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 11:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: It seems

I can't retrace your claims, which has led to your ban, or if mods delete your posts for very subjective reasons. Tbh, I even haven't noticed you were banned for a while.

Anyway, during the time as a user of this and other sites, I have read several threads like yours, in which users complained about unjust, or at least unequal, treatment by members of the staff. And not just in this forum. You can find such threads worldwide, no matter what native language they prefer. So you are not the only one who expierenced that.


I would simply say that, as far as I remember your posts and threads, the style of your posting is such polarizing that they almost inevitably provoke in the course of a discussion and, according to the momentum of such "discussions," they may degenerate into meaningless quarrels.


I don't know how old you are, but I think it's time to mature a bit and also time to re-think your writing style and to withdraw more on the emotionally side, so that the whole thing ends up not too provocative.


Whether you support Trump or absolutely hate him, what you really feel results in the sum of your posts and doesn't have emphatically be expressed in a single post each time.


Of course, this, mine, pov doesn't just refer to you, but to so many other users whose posting styles aren't such far from your style of posting stuff.





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Old July 13th, 2018, 12:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: It seems

My account was frozen for two weeks and I received two infractions for arguing with you. My Trump is Evil post was also locked. Also, I don't recall anyone calling you a baby killer.

Also, I agree that banning people for engaging in heated debate on ROTW is excessive and actually harmful to the integrity of the forum community. I'm okay with locking a thread that gets out of control, but issuing infractions and banning people is too much and often appears subjective. Banning should really be reserved for obvious trolls and pedophiles.

Last edited by max02; July 13th, 2018 at 01:11 AM. Reason: additional comments
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Old July 13th, 2018, 04:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lliam View Post
I can't retrace your claims, which has led to your ban, or if mods delete your posts for very subjective reasons. Tbh, I even haven't noticed you were banned for a while.

Anyway, during the time as a user of this and other sites, I have read several threads like yours, in which users complained about unjust, or at least unequal, treatment by members of the staff. And not just in this forum. You can find such threads worldwide, no matter what native language they prefer. So you are not the only one who expierenced that.


I would simply say that, as far as I remember your posts and threads, the style of your posting is such polarizing that they almost inevitably provoke in the course of a discussion and, according to the momentum of such "discussions," they may degenerate into meaningless quarrels.


I don't know how old you are, but I think it's time to mature a bit and also time to re-think your writing style and to withdraw more on the emotionally side, so that the whole thing ends up not too provocative.


Whether you support Trump or absolutely hate him, what you really feel results in the sum of your posts and doesn't have emphatically be expressed in a single post each time.


Of course, this, mine, pov doesn't just refer to you, but to so many other users whose posting styles aren't such far from your style of posting stuff.

To be fair though the subject matter and current events are polarizing by default, there’s no avoiding that persay due to how the 2016 campaign was run and the fallout from decisions that are hurting real people, sometimes even really close to home where it’s the origin of why teens would post in the mental crisis or other parts of the forum due to losing friends cuz of deportation or a breadwinner of the family.


I’ve mentioned it before in suggestions and VT headquarters that a protocol should be made for ROTW to discuss controversial topics on a structured way and also so as to clearly define a balance between the merit of the discussion and when it crosses that line into a personal attack; I think we think it’s obvious, I am coming to conclusions that posters might not be able to see that line.

For instance if outside media stories are linked tracing a claim or interpretation of an event or decide to analyze the intent of a public figures actions, and therefore a posters support or withdrawal of support for those policies then that sounds fair. But if the response isn’t one of “I have beliefs or views based on these sets of facts, and rather I have right to my opinion because of reasons I can’t articulate” that is a problem.


I’ve also noticed that on the 3rd or higher order of responses, strawman characterizations of person A, will be made by person B, and that also adds fuel to the fire.

I’ve always tried to ask someone I’m responding to to clarify the meaning of their statements before I begin to challenge their POV. I also think it’s appropriate for anybody to analyze posts on a meta level, so as to gauge the cohesion of logic in the conversation and to see if it’s appropriate to respond in the real or in the ideal. Anybody whose watching these conversations as closely as I am will notice the rhythms of alternating defense of idealistic foundations, followed by a realistic example of how when that ideal is carried out realistically it immediate enters a breakdown gray area, followed by original poster defending the non-perfect ideal’s intent while simultaneously trying to defend the original point and brush off the shortcomings.

When the short comings are brushed off that’s when it becomes a devolving conversation of well it’s my opinion Vs your opinion “well then your a monster for supporting ___ and rationalizing it”.

Ignorance also compounds the problem.

Last edited by Uniquemind; July 13th, 2018 at 04:54 AM.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 10:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: It seems

ROTW VTHQ

this is better suited here

As for the OP, who has been repeatedly warned and asked to follow forum rules and refrain from bashing and flaming and insulting other users, if you have any questions or concerns please bring them up with me.

The reason why ROTW threads get locked so often is because users on this forum apparently can not control themselves and are horrible debaters, who turn to insults and off topic remarks when their points are not agreed with. The staff on this forum are not bias. They don’t pick sides. Just because you don’t think something is happening, doesn’t mean that’s the case. Let the staff do their job and worry about yourself for once, and actually learning self control and respect.

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Old July 15th, 2018, 01:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: It seems

Enough is enough. I've deleted the majority of posts in this thread. Nobody is in trouble, but this is not appropriate behavior on ANYONE'S part. I am locking this thread so this doesn't devolve any further.

Responding to OP and OP alone:
I have not been personally involved or responsible in any of your disciplinary history. I'm aware of it, however. What other users have pointed out is true, unfortunately; with current political climates and the nature of RotW itself, almost all of these discussions get very dicey very quickly. We as a staff do our best to moderate it, but understand that it's just as dicey for us, too. I can tell you that most of the time, the content I see reported and penalized is not limited to any particular viewpoint. In other words: it shouldn't matter what you say, just how you say it. That said, I can't bring to mind anything in particular you've gotten in trouble for, only why. If you'd like me (or another non-involved staff member) to review anything in particular, please feel free to PM me (or whoever else you feel comfortable talking to; at the moment, we only have one admin, two global moderators including myself, and one GD mod, so I understand your options are limited). I'm happy to talk things over with you and see if we can't figure out some sort of resolution. Also, since you're active in RotW, you reporting things from other people is a huge help, and if you're able to point out situations in which someone else was seemingly not punished as you were (recall that a lot of disciplinary stuff goes on behind the scenes, most of the time you aren't in any way privy), that would be beneficial to us and to you.

I also want to take a quick moment to respond to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by max02 View Post
My account was frozen for two weeks and I received two infractions for arguing with you. My Trump is Evil post was also locked. Also, I don't recall anyone calling you a baby killer.

Also, I agree that banning people for engaging in heated debate on ROTW is excessive and actually harmful to the integrity of the forum community. I'm okay with locking a thread that gets out of control, but issuing infractions and banning people is too much and often appears subjective. Banning should really be reserved for obvious trolls and pedophiles.
We don't deliberately ban people for anything other than obvious trolls, bots, predators, etc. If you rack up enough infractions, the system bans automatically. Rest assured, you have nothing to worry about for debating until you start racking up infractions.

Unfortunately, though we try our best, creating objective criteria for infractions is questionable at best. Like I said above, if you ever have questions, want to review or discuss some action taken or not taken, or have anything to report about another user or users, please feel free to PM a staff member. Speaking for myself, I will always do what I can to respond and resolve things with people who come to me, though I'm far from perfect. I can promise you to do my best.





Now with all that said: if the conversation needs to continue, please take it to PMs. I want to say that you're welcome to create a new thread for anything constructive, but right now I honestly can't see that going anywhere positive. If you want to try, I ask that you please run it by me first.

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Last edited by Elysium; July 15th, 2018 at 01:51 PM.
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