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Old August 29th, 2019, 01:26 AM   #1
Uniquemind
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Default Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

Citizenship will no longer be automatic for children of some U.S. military members living overseas - CNN Politics

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/polit...ule/index.html

If the direct link did not work that is the title of the article; I encourage you to read it.


And it just goes to show not only is this current administration against illegal immigration, they’re also tightening the legal immigration process creating a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” process of coming to the country legally.

It’s just really unfair, and for this specific article it puts undo stress on US service men and US government contractors or other ambassador personnel and their families regarding the children born abroad on various US military bases.

I remember many here were Trump supporters a few years ago, and I have to ask how you defend these kind of actions.

Such actions discourage a rich culture of skilled US employees in the most critical jobs the nation offers and needs filled, to understand and draft and advise policies and foreign actions, with respect to understanding cultural and language barriers within foreign policy.


Such decisions like these will disincentivize such talented personnel to take a job that would place their families in this kind of legal-status limbo.

That’s why it’s important to discuss. (Again I’m not asking for a debate here, I’m literally wanting to just talk about this news story).
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Old August 29th, 2019, 10:22 AM   #2
ShineintheDark
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

From what I can tell from the article, the policy change is to no longer consider children born to US officials and service members abroad as US citizens if the parent is not themselves yet a US citizen (eg. if they're in the process of naturalization or got their green card but not a full citizen) so is essentially ending birthright citizenship for children born abroad. It's not a shock really - as the article says, Trump has indicated he;s wanted to scrap birthright citizenship altoghether (in and outside of the US) so doing this is just a beta version.
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Old August 29th, 2019, 02:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

1. not sure what the problem with being against illegal immigration is, follow the law and we welcome you don't follow the law and we are left to assume you will break more laws. i know a handful of illegals and have no problem with them but also don't think they should get the rights of a full blown citizen and should go home if they cause trouble

2. tightening the process is just that it's making it more regulated but not impossible


i know it's crazy to think about but a LOT of other countries don't have birthright citizenship, a lot also have more stringent requirements to become a citizen.

all in all the country is like a house, knock on the front door ask to come in and if warranted you will be welcomed with a handshake, knock on the door and explain why you are there you might have to wait a minute for the home owner to assess the situation but if warranted let into the house, come through a window uninvited and the assumption isn't that you are there because you're down on your luck the assumption is you are there because you are up to no good.
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Old August 29th, 2019, 06:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

It’s bottlenecking the process for those who are serving in the armed forces of the USA.

That’s really why it’s a slap in the face, a lot of the children of this subset of affected people risk losing their parental figurehead, breadwinner, and also getting deported to another country. It also ignores the psychological effects of say a 7 year old child whose critical language development and friendship social circles occurred in a USA-cultural environment.



That’s why it’s extremely offensive and it’s possibly medical-psychological harmful as a policy.

That’s my main reason anyway because I see that chain reaction happening for people. It’s a moral wrong based on the exchange of resources.


But it affects children of naturalized people already too.

—-

Sure this is a small subset of people affected, but in the context of immigration discussion the logic works both ways, it’s either a small percentage legally allowed to be citizens through this specific way, or it’s a small percentage denied.

It seems there’s more harm done by doing this, than by leaving it alone?

That’s the ultimate question.

Last edited by Uniquemind; August 29th, 2019 at 06:50 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2019, 07:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

Wow... I am speechless

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Old August 31st, 2019, 09:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

I don't think it's as much about the kids here in the USA as the possibility of a service member being overseas and getting a local pregnant and that child automatically becoming a US citizen and therefore the mother too

I think if your parents are stationed overseas and you are born while overseas you would automatically be a US citizen due to the fact that both of your parents are

so my understanding is that it won't be that huge of a shake up
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Old September 21st, 2019, 03:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

The article talks about 100 people concerned. They make such a fuss for 100 people out of 300 something millions inhabitants?
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Old September 25th, 2019, 03:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

If you are a female legal resident of the US who is sent abroad by the government either as a service member or the spouse of a service member, and you give birth abroad, then yes that child should be given full birthright citizenship.

If you happen to knock-up a foreign national and she gives birth, then that child shouldn't be granted automatic birthright citizenship.

Idk how exactly the current regulations are, but this is my opinion on how they should be
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Old September 26th, 2019, 02:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
If you are a female legal resident of the US who is sent abroad by the government either as a service member or the spouse of a service member, and you give birth abroad, then yes that child should be given full birthright citizenship.

If you happen to knock-up a foreign national and she gives birth, then that child shouldn't be granted automatic birthright citizenship.

Idk how exactly the current regulations are, but this is my opinion on how they should be
But, in the case of a female service member getting knocked up by a local whilst stationed abroad, you would have that child have full citizenship rights I assume. However, you state that you wouldn't grant citizenship if the roles were reversed. If the service member returns to the US (which is why this all matters), why would you feel more comfortable tearing the father from the child than the mother? Surely, beyond the first few months in which the mother is biologically needed, the necessity of each parent becomes arbitrary and so different rules shouldn't apply depending on the gender of the service member?
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Old October 6th, 2019, 03:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
But, in the case of a female service member getting knocked up by a local whilst stationed abroad, you would have that child have full citizenship rights I assume. However, you state that you wouldn't grant citizenship if the roles were reversed. If the service member returns to the US (which is why this all matters), why would you feel more comfortable tearing the father from the child than the mother? Surely, beyond the first few months in which the mother is biologically needed, the necessity of each parent becomes arbitrary and so different rules shouldn't apply depending on the gender of the service member?
Especially not in the age of supposed “equality” in either an egalitarian or feminist context definition of equality.

And at the end of the day, law’s shouldn’t ignore the psychological harm of separating a healthy parent-child relationship based on geographic-political red tape compounded by the fact that they’re their in the service capacity of national defense and service.


If security loopholes are concerned there are deeper background checks and vetting that can still happen. But the real issue here is the underlying reasoning for the scrutiny, and reclassification.

Has the loophole been abused, is the loophole cause for harm to society beyond demographic changes?

These are deeper questions that should be asked.
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Old October 6th, 2019, 08:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmaxd123 View Post
I don't think it's as much about the kids here in the USA as the possibility of a service member being overseas and getting a local pregnant and that child automatically becoming a US citizen and therefore the mother too

I think if your parents are stationed overseas and you are born while overseas you would automatically be a US citizen due to the fact that both of your parents are

so my understanding is that it won't be that huge of a shake up
Sadly, you are incorrect. According to the article, 2 American adults who have a child while over seas would need to apply for citizenship for their new born child
Fucked up huh?

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Old October 12th, 2019, 09:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

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Originally Posted by Just JT View Post
Sadly, you are incorrect. According to the article, 2 American adults who have a child while over seas would need to apply for citizenship for their new born child
Fucked up huh?
A lot of countries have a 'right of return' law, where if one of your parents was born there (some countries even go back to grandparents), you can automatically become a citizen of that country if you go there. The US does not have that.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 08:49 PM   #13
ShineintheDark
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

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Originally Posted by Zika View Post
A lot of countries have a 'right of return' law, where if one of your parents was born there (some countries even go back to grandparents), you can automatically become a citizen of that country if you go there. The US does not have that.
They actually do, any person born to a US citizen abroad has a right to citizenship currently (it's how Ted Cruz is considered a natural born citizen despite being born in Canada).
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Old October 18th, 2019, 07:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Shakeups to citizenship for children of US service persons

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Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
They actually do, any person born to a US citizen abroad has a right to citizenship currently (it's how Ted Cruz is considered a natural born citizen despite being born in Canada).
You're right. I should have known that.
As for Canadians, they're basically the Americans' red-haired bastard step-children. They collectively suffer from a terrible case of sour grapes.

(I don't actually believe that, I just love saying it to Canadians . It's not the worst way to get your jollies)
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