Virtual Teen Forums
 

Go Back   Virtual Teen Forums > >
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Chat Room

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 17th, 2019, 01:08 PM   #41
HeyCameron
Nice Poster
 
HeyCameron's Forum Picture
 
Name: Cameron
Join Date: August 15, 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Gender: Male
Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Its like I said those snowflakes made up that term because being called racist hurt their feelings. Antifa is different because it would be more the left that would push them as ''alt-left'' to distance our self from them because we do agree on ideology and on what they are fighting for, but no one on the left will ever agree with them on the usage of violence to obtain those goals.
That seems awfully lofty. I'm sure some people on the left do agree with their violent tactics. But what I'm getting at is this: some people on the right want to push white nationalists to the "alt-right" because they don't want to identify with them. And the "alt-right" can be seen as a wacky fringe. It's starting to sound like the no true Scotsman fallacy. Just take the unsavory people in your group (religion, ideological wing, etc.) and say they're not "true" members of your group. But then we don't address the problematic ideology at the root of those "unsavory" people if we do that. It's like sweeping the problem under the rug.

And yes, per @PlasmaHam's comment, I think "Islamophobic" is a better term to use here than "racist", but obviously they're all forms of bigotry. At the end of the day, bigotry (whether it's Islamophobia or xenophobia or racism or whatever) was the driving force behind what happened in New Zealand.

I need the darkness, someone please cut the lights
HeyCameron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2019, 04:06 PM   #42
mattsmith48
VT Voice of reason
 
Name: matt
Join Date: March 8, 2014
Location: North of the Banana Republic
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Post Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
Are you talking about yourself? Because I don't ever recall you advocating this.
This quote is from last August.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
I keep saying a big problem of todays society is we segregate ourselves with other people that think exactly like us and when you meet someone with a different opinion all you do is yell and insult eachother. It is important that people with different opinions not only talk and listen to eachother but also try to understand why they think this way. While you might not agree with them, understanding why someone is for universal healthcare, or free trade, or immigration or guns, may help you better understand the issue and help both sides help in a debate and to eventually compromise on a solution that everyone is fine with
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
Frankly, the only think I hear from you is loathing and mockery of those you disagree with. When was the last time you actually talked to, without resorting to mockery or insults, a conservative on this site? Honestly, the fact that @HeyCameron is arguing with you on a majority left-wing site seems to imply that he is more comfortable exposing himself to differing viewpoints than you are. All this sounds like just trying to puff yourself up because you can't actually address the charge at hand.
Are you saying because were both left we are not allowed to disagree with each other?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
For example, that's like me accusing you of being racist because you dislike the NBA. Over 75% of NBA players are not white, so you might jump to conclusions and assume that is the case. But that has nothing to with why you dislike the NBA, you simply think the league is boring and filled with egotists (or atleast, that's what I think). Simply because you dislike something with a majority non-white membership, logic does not dictate the reason for disliking must be racial in nature.
I actually dislike the NBA because of the lack of parity leading to 2 teams having a shot at the title, as oppose to the MLB or NHL where everyone who makes the playoffs has a realistic shot at winning the championship. Its as nothing to do with the players, its just the structure of the league and the sport in general leading to this unbalance.

Its like a couple weeks ago I talked about criticising Israel. When I call Benjamin Netanyahu a corrupted right-wing war monger guilty of many war crimes, it as nothing to do with Jewish people and doesn't make me an anti-Semite, just like if there is a terrorist attack and it turns out the suspect is Muslim, it doesn't make you Islamophobe to criticise the action of the person, its when you bring out other people from the faith who have nothing to do with it that it becomes Islamophobia, or Anti-Semitism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
That seems awfully lofty. I'm sure some people on the left do agree with their violent tactics. But what I'm getting at is this: some people on the right want to push white nationalists to the "alt-right" because they don't want to identify with them. And the "alt-right" can be seen as a wacky fringe. It's starting to sound like the no true Scotsman fallacy.
You don't really see Antifa call themselves ''alt-left'' in the same way you will see white supremacists call themselves ''alt-right''. In fact if you google ''Alt-left'' you realise the term is more of an attempt by right-wing snowflakes to create a left-wing equivalent to the alt-right, really being started during Trump's ''violence on both sides'' press conference following the terrorist attack in Charlottesville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
Just take the unsavory people in your group (religion, ideological wing, etc.) and say they're not "true" members of your group. But then we don't address the problematic ideology at the root of those "unsavory" people if we do that. It's like sweeping the problem under the rug.
That's a good point, and I think on the left we should denounce them but try to figure out why do they think violence is the way they will accomplish their goal. You look at the right-wing parties across the west that have been or currently are being overtaken by white supremacists, I guess it could lead to that on the left with antifa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
And yes, you sound like an idiot when you accuse someone of being racist towards Islam, even moreso when you double down on it. Islam isn't a race, its an ideology. People can be bigoted towards Islam, fine. People can be Islamophobic, fine. However, you can't be racist towards an ideology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
And yes, per @PlasmaHam's comment, I think "Islamophobic" is a better term to use here than "racist", but obviously they're all forms of bigotry. At the end of the day, bigotry (whether it's Islamophobia or xenophobia or racism or whatever) was the driving force behind what happened in New Zealand.
While Islamophobia is a better term, it is still racism. The reason for that is people have formed an idea of what Muslims look like and will discriminate and attack people based on that image. That's how many South Asian Hindus and Sikhs will end up being confused as Muslim by Islamophobic people. Its the same thing in the US where being anti-immigration can be seen as racist because of their image of who immigrants are. So that's why Islamophobia is racism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48
There is no such thing as liberal or conservative media, the only thing the media cares about is either money or the truth.
mattsmith48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2019, 08:10 PM   #43
PlasmaHam
Awesome Poster
 
PlasmaHam's Forum Picture
 
Join Date: July 7, 2016
Location: Irrationality
Gender: Male
Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
This quote is from last August.
A single quote from six months back, class.

Let's put it this way. When have you ever actually practiced this? For all I know, this quote of yours is just another case of you doing what you did here, espousing an idealistic doctrine just to puff up your own moral standing.

I might be alone in this, but I seriously doubt anyone whose "debates" consist of throwing accusations of racism and mocking the other's beliefs is really looking to become sincerely informed.

And yes, you still look and sound like an idiot when you claim that disliking Islam is racist, especially when you double down on it yet again. What's wrong with simply using bigotry or Islamaphobic? Are they not buzzword enough for you? I just don't get it.

Not continuing down this rabbit-hole, but if you want to prove to me that you actually believe what you espouse, then stop with the insults and actually try to inform your own opinion, instead of mocking people for theirs.
PlasmaHam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:36 AM   #44
mattsmith48
VT Voice of reason
 
Name: matt
Join Date: March 8, 2014
Location: North of the Banana Republic
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
A single quote from six months back, class.

Let's put it this way. When have you ever actually practiced this? For all I know, this quote of yours is just another case of you doing what you did here, espousing an idealistic doctrine just to puff up your own moral standing.

I might be alone in this, but I seriously doubt anyone whose "debates" consist of throwing accusations of racism and mocking the other's beliefs is really looking to become sincerely informed.
Actually I do, I know and talk to many people from the right and the centre and they are smart enough to make the difference between an actual statement and someone making a joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
And yes, you still look and sound like an idiot when you claim that disliking Islam is racist, especially when you double down on it yet again. What's wrong with simply using bigotry or Islamaphobic? Are they not buzzword enough for you? I just don't get it.

Not continuing down this rabbit-hole, but if you want to prove to me that you actually believe what you espouse, then stop with the insults and actually try to inform your own opinion, instead of mocking people for theirs.
I explained why racism is a correct term, and all you do is ignore what I said and insult me. If you disagree with my point tell me why I'm wrong. When instead you ignore and insult people, all it tells them is they are right and you have no arguments left to counter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48
There is no such thing as liberal or conservative media, the only thing the media cares about is either money or the truth.
mattsmith48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 11:31 AM   #45
HeyCameron
Nice Poster
 
HeyCameron's Forum Picture
 
Name: Cameron
Join Date: August 15, 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Gender: Male
Default Re: Terrorist attack on two mosques in New Zealand

@PlasmaHam I find it a bit disingenuous that you call out mattsmith for his insults and mockery but then you tell him he looks and sounds like an idiot. Just saying.

Would be nice if we could all stop with the insulting and mocking and just argue the points, but I know that's probably not possible.

I need the darkness, someone please cut the lights
HeyCameron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright©2000 - 2019
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, VirtualTeen.org