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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

How about our bombs killing the civilians? A lot of people in Iraq think it was better with saddam in power.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 06:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by popo93 View Post
How about our bombs killing the civilians? A lot of people in Iraq think it was better with saddam in power.
Yeah like I said kinda hard to tell there are civilians nearby from 3000 feet in the air. Also hard when ackmed is hiding in peoples houses and stashing weapons in hospitals or ambulances.
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Old September 14th, 2006, 07:31 PM   #23
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(in context of what Bush has done wrong while he is president)
Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.
ok lets talk about these points.

Osama bin Laden is still at large, do you think that if we hadn't gone in to Afganistan and toppled the Taliban regime that we would have a better chance of getting osama? Hes been gettign away from american since clinton started firing missiles at places he was suspected of being at.

Iraq is still violent
so should we have not gotten rid of sadaam? are there no terrorists in Iraq? (top alqueda leaders have been captured/killed in Iraq) and aren't they are main cause of the violence? do you think that they are attacking us because they don't like Freedom or democracy or infidels, or that they don't want us in Iraq, aren't we infact in Iraq still because its violent? If they wanted us gone all they would have to do is to stop attacking us.

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile so your saying that it's Bushes fault that they are building nukes? should he have bombed them to stop their nuke programs?

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet. are you saying that the terririst can be reasoned with? and will stop if we ask them to, if we aren't "world police" or "corrupt". or are you saying that bush should have killed them all somehow? Maybe listen in on every conversation on earth? (the terrorists are recruting in space!!!! lol)
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Old September 14th, 2006, 07:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

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Originally Posted by cmpcmp View Post
ok lets talk about these points.

Osama bin Laden is still at large, do you think that if we hadn't gone in to Afganistan and toppled the Taliban regime that we would have a better chance of getting osama? Hes been gettign away from american since clinton started firing missiles at places he was suspected of being at.

Iraq is still violent
so should we have not gotten rid of sadaam? are there no terrorists in Iraq? (top alqueda leaders have been captured/killed in Iraq) and aren't they are main cause of the violence? do you think that they are attacking us because they don't like Freedom or democracy or infidels, or that they don't want us in Iraq, aren't we infact in Iraq still because its violent? If they wanted us gone all they would have to do is to stop attacking us.

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile so your saying that it's Bushes fault that they are building nukes? should he have bombed them to stop their nuke programs?

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet. are you saying that the terririst can be reasoned with? and will stop if we ask them to, if we aren't "world police" or "corrupt". or are you saying that bush should have killed them all somehow? Maybe listen in on every conversation on earth? (the terrorists are recruting in space!!!! lol)
Could'nt have put it better myself
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Old September 15th, 2006, 05:10 AM   #25
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid.


The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence..

EDIT : Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?

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Last edited by Hyper; September 15th, 2006 at 05:18 AM. Reason: New thought
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Old September 15th, 2006, 11:00 AM   #26
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

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Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid.


The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence..

EDIT : Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?
from the bottom to top. Yes because if the terrorist leaves the city we capture him, if civilians leave they are given medical attention or whatever need be.

"The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence.."

Yeah their Idea of a political war is hiding among children then when one gets killed take a picture, or one of OUR journalists takes a picture and says this is bushes private war for oil or some dumb thing like that. The terrorists then gather in rallys and show grusome pictures then more people become insurgents even when its the terrorists fault the kid died.


"Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid."

There are only a couple of ways to defeat terrorists, complete millitary force just kill them intill they come out of their fanatical thinking and say know that the only way is death, now this sounds harsh but the only other ways is to destroy every country that funds them or trains them, which is like every country in the middle east, or just sit back and take it while they bomb our shit. Yes trust me if you lived in Iraq when saddam was in power you would want to be rescured, I am not even going to list all the things we have done for them, I think they are in another thread. No children are not dieing from starvation we give them food medical attention, more than half of them have medicare, we build them hospitals , more housing etc. Like I said most children only die because ackmed is hiding in peoples houses and behind children, this tactic is called hugging. We dont use landmines because after the war they dont get picked up, people in belgium are still geting blow up by bombs from ww1!
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Old September 15th, 2006, 05:30 PM   #27
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I basicly agree with Phantom

Quote:
An eye for an eye and the world goes blind
maybe, but if some one is allowed to run around and kill every body every body will be dead, cept the killer(s). And NEWS FLASH the Fundamental Islamic Terrorists that belive that we are infidels that need to die are trying to kill us. Don't try ur sadaam didn't support al queda crap b/c theres proof that he let them get medical attention there, pay families $ if there son/daughter was a suicide bomber, and Al Queda isn't the only terririst organization out there. Plus al queda leaders have been captured in Iraq.
Quote:
The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war
If political "war" won't be backed up by physical war (think U.N.) then why would any body negotiate with anyone besides trade?

Quote:
Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?
U drop the leaflest BEFORE u drop bombs. Plus the intention of war isn't to kill innocents, plus after you drop the leaflets, the terrorists (like hezbola) will still hide with the civilians,and many times force the civilians to comply.

Good question right here,
-If some one is attacking you do you defend your self/nation?
-If Iran getts a nuke, and is going to launch it at Isreal (the president has repeatedly said that isereal whould/will be wiped off the map, with force) do you percision bobm the nuke before it is launched? what if they are launching them at ur house? Go try and reason with Hadimniijad (i think thats his name) hes really reasonanable, he does things like make western words illegal to use, and bann george michals and Eagles beats from Iran (sounds like Taliban rules to me) (think hooded women)
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Old September 16th, 2006, 05:51 AM   #28
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

As I recall Phantom you said in a post something like this ,, And in return for helping them shouldnt we get some top right oil deals with them ''


Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )

Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a change

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Old September 16th, 2006, 11:38 AM   #29
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As I recall Phantom you said in a post something like this ,, And in return for helping them shouldnt we get some top right oil deals with them ''


Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )

Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a change
Ok lets decipher none sensical ramblings top to bottom. No I said we free them rebuild their country and protect them and brittan and us get exlusive rights to mine for oil, this is only a theory though my personal thoughts.

"Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )"
Yeah the president of Iran has REPEATEDLY said he wants to destroy isreal, or "drive them into the sea" now if you dont take that as a threat somthing is wrong. you surround the city. Yes I admit isreal is alittle brutal at times but they have to be they are surrounded by MILLIONS of muslims that would like nothing better than to see them ALL dead or driven into the sea.

"Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. "
LOL do you realize what your saying 5000 arabs walk into a gun store buy a SHITLOAD of guns and just charge the f*cking whitehouse yelling ALAH ACBAR!! I am very worried about KGB nukes because our mexico border is so weak, you do know that there is an estimated 5000 al quida sleeper agents in the U.S right which I doubt maybe more like 200. Dude I think the terrorists realy MEANT what they were doing on 9/11 ! when they killed 3000! of our own in an attack that rivaled PEAR HARBOR, you seem to have forgotten, maybe it would have helped you understand if one of your family members died there I bet then you would be all for the war on terror.

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Old September 16th, 2006, 05:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel?
alll of the following and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes,
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”
“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the
Islamic countries due to their need.” (ie, give them nukes/nuke-know-how also)
"As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."
"And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism,"

what is why i think he wants to "wipe Israel off the map"

Quote:
Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah'
If some on were to attack where you live ......
(ur profile says hell but im inclined to think you live somewhere else)
and start launching 1000's of rockets at your area what would you do? drop leaflest all over, then presision bomb the launching mechanisms, maybe?

-Are you saying that if you were born in Israel, and hezbloa rockets were launched at your house (but u can't be sure as the rockets perscision is something like with in 2 miles) that you would just lay down and take it? not do anykind of retaliation?

PS. the countries that "hate Israel more" already hated Israel from the start and were just looking for an excuse.

Quote:
WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY
well there were "iscolated icurrences" but they definitely weren't taking it by land or anything like that. If the world was up in arms about bombing hezbola (but strangely not at hezbola as much) what would they be saying if isael had gone in fullscale land invasion?

Quote:
Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a change
i dont even know where to start.....

Your reasoning makes 0 sense. To some how sneak 5000 terrorists in to the USA is a little farfetched.

on the other hand on 9/11 they only needed like 20 (19 but suspected one more... w/e) ppl to kill ~3000.... 3000/20=150 a terrorist, thats a lot more than your number of 2.

and ur nuke thing,
-If the terrorists are willing to kill themselves, 3000 other ppl (in one day) and spend years training and preparing for the killing, If they could get their hands on a nuke, they would use it as fast as they could.

they are going for fear, a guy w/ a gun can be shot very quickly, a 747 requires a rocket and even then everybody in the plane will die, plus anyone that happens to be under the plane debris as it falls.
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Old September 16th, 2006, 07:07 PM   #31
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Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.


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Old September 16th, 2006, 07:27 PM   #32
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Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.
So if I broke into your house at night and was about to kill your mom or you, you wouldnt shoot me.
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Old September 16th, 2006, 09:52 PM   #33
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if you broke into my house, my mother would be safe over 600 miles away. If you were trying to kill her, I would use self defense, but I would not intend to end your life.

But what relevence is that situation?

we are talking about a war that has killed hundrends of thousends of people.


""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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Old September 16th, 2006, 11:29 PM   #34
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if you broke into my house, my mother would be safe over 600 miles away. If you were trying to kill her, I would use self defense, but I would not intend to end your life.

But what relevence is that situation?

we are talking about a war that has killed hundrends of thousends of people.
somtimes wars are nessisary. I personaly would rather fight than just sit back and take it. Think of it this way if we didnt invade Iraq the civilian deaths would be MUCH higher under saddam, the way he treated his people and what he did to the kurds. And Afghanistan was pretty self explanitory the terrorists were hiding there under the protection of the taliban. We also took them out and also liberated the people there that were oppresed by the fanatical taliban.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 04:54 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
Ok lets decipher none sensical ramblings top to bottom. No I said we free them rebuild their country and protect them and brittan and us get exlusive rights to mine for oil, this is only a theory though my personal thoughts.

"Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )"
Yeah the president of Iran has REPEATEDLY said he wants to destroy isreal, or "drive them into the sea" now if you dont take that as a threat somthing is wrong. you surround the city. Yes I admit isreal is alittle brutal at times but they have to be they are surrounded by MILLIONS of muslims that would like nothing better than to see them ALL dead or driven into the sea.

"Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. "
LOL do you realize what your saying 5000 arabs walk into a gun store buy a SHITLOAD of guns and just charge the f*cking whitehouse yelling ALAH ACBAR!! I am very worried about KGB nukes because our mexico border is so weak, you do know that there is an estimated 5000 al quida sleeper agents in the U.S right which I doubt maybe more like 200. Dude I think the terrorists realy MEANT what they were doing on 9/11 ! when they killed 3000! of our own in an attack that rivaled PEAR HARBOR, you seem to have forgotten, maybe it would have helped you understand if one of your family members died there I bet then you would be all for the war on terror.

"Now you can try and think yourself for a change"

^That was un needed

You know you still dont get my point if there are thought to be 5000 agents in USA and you think like 200 they wouldnt have to get in the border they could do much worse than Pearl Harbor.. But instead a huge attack only happens when the government gains political influence by it occuring. Of course you still dont see your logic cuz in your head simply everyone who doesnt agree with you is wrong. And no I wouldnt support the war with terrorism if my family member wouldve died there. I wouldnt follow a mass of hate and a government that belives the best solution is always to give someone else the weapons so they could kill them or better yet kill it yourself. And if youd look at history youd perhaps realize why the fuck do all the muslims hate Israel. And what the Iran president has said. Well its simply let me give you an example I will say I will kill you if you dont shut up but that doesnt mean il kill you all that means is I am trying to get you to shut up. And why would Iran fire a nuke at Israel all it would mean is that theyd be attacked by the good ol USA. And yes the last line in my previous post was very needed.

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Old September 17th, 2006, 05:30 AM   #36
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Ok if there are 5000 ppl in the USA trying to kill us how have there not been any domestic terrorist attacks in the last five years? You don't think that even one of the ppl would have done something news worthy?

and Kolte
Quote:
There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.
Theoretical situation that may actualy happen. North Korea get nukes and intercontinental balistic missiles. UN drags its feet and they keep them (NO SUPPRISE THERE) and the Dems in the senate/congress block balistic missile defence so if N korean launches the nukes they will hit us.
-OK now North Korea Launches a nuke and it fails but we do know that it was intended to blowup a large city, do u blow up the nuke launching places in North Korea? (thus killing innocents)
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Old September 17th, 2006, 11:36 AM   #37
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You know you still dont get my point if there are thought to be 5000 agents in USA and you think like 200 they wouldnt have to get in the border they could do much worse than Pearl Harbor.. But instead a huge attack only happens when the government gains political influence by it occuring. Of course you still dont see your logic cuz in your head simply everyone who doesnt agree with you is wrong. And no I wouldnt support the war with terrorism if my family member wouldve died there. I wouldnt follow a mass of hate and a government that belives the best solution is always to give someone else the weapons so they could kill them or better yet kill it yourself. And if youd look at history youd perhaps realize why the fuck do all the muslims hate Israel. And what the Iran president has said. Well its simply let me give you an example I will say I will kill you if you dont shut up but that doesnt mean il kill you all that means is I am trying to get you to shut up. And why would Iran fire a nuke at Israel all it would mean is that theyd be attacked by the good ol USA. And yes the last line in my previous post was very needed.
You do know we have stoped over 50 I say again 50 terrorist attacks on U.S soil. Ok dude are you from a diffrent country because I cant understand ANYTHING you are saying either its your logic or you sentence structure. Now Isreal once did give back the gaza strip well guess what right when they gave it back terrorists launched rockets from it! If you cant see that Iran hates isreal because their leader is a religious fanatic that governerns the whole country and controls everything, then there is somthing wrong with you.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 01:07 PM   #38
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Ohh god all I am saying it is easy to blow something up if your a terrorist... If I was a terrorist all I would do is just take a fucking bomb walk in a movie theater and blow it up I am not sure if you can do it there but in here theres no ultra security controll in huge public places.. And I belive a terrorist could walk in a mall and blow himself up killing tens of ppl but I cant recall that happening..

Overall my point is for some 'mysterious' reason the huge attacks that hit countries like the USA occur when the government can take huge advantage from the entire attack

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Don't stick no sign on me, I got no label
I'm a little sick, unsure, unsound and unstable

But I'm fighting my way back
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Old September 17th, 2006, 01:23 PM   #39
Phantom
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Join Date: September 10, 2006
Location: U.S/ Minnesota
Age: 26
Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

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Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Ohh god all I am saying it is easy to blow something up if your a terrorist... If I was a terrorist all I would do is just take a fucking bomb walk in a movie theater and blow it up I am not sure if you can do it there but in here theres no ultra security controll in huge public places.. And I belive a terrorist could walk in a mall and blow himself up killing tens of ppl but I cant recall that happening..

Overall my point is for some 'mysterious' reason the huge attacks that hit countries like the USA occur when the government can take huge advantage from the entire attack
How about we have somthing called RESTRICTIONS and POLICE I dont think the average arab can just walk in to a store and buy MILLITARY GRADE EXPLOSIVES!
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Old September 17th, 2006, 02:29 PM   #40
cmpcmp
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Default Re: The war in Iraq(debate)

most all of the stoped terrorist threats were from out side the US, but some like the one in Florida had barely got off the ground.

The fact of the matter is it is now very difficult to get a terrorist into america, give em money, keep in communication with them, and carry out a coordinated attack that kills more than 10 ppl. The fact is that 40,000ish ppl die in trafic accidents every year, 1000 ppl getting killed by terrorists a year in the US will only shut down the borders a lot faster and then getting ppl in will really be a chalange, so they go for big dammge and canage with few ppl, like september 11th, madrid train bombings, London Bus bobming and so forth. Its all a bout the fear factor,

O SHIT IF 20 ppl can kill 3000 then how many will 5000 kill???
5000*75(half the ration of 9/11(the attack, not 9 11ths))=375,000 o shit were all going to die.

but they really can't get that many "good" attacks off, and belive me, they are trying.
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