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Old March 31st, 2019, 11:28 PM   #1
Uniquemind
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Default State of Georgia abortion restrictions

Just thought Iíd let everybody know that abortion, should you need one, is about to be illegal in the state of Georgia as soon as that stateís governor signs a bill restricting abortion access as soon as a heartbeat is detected which is approximately 6 weeks from conception.


I donít know if their are legal clauses for exception for rape or incest at all. But given that this can impact our romantic and sexual relationships and how we manage them I thought Iíd post this here. This post also can go in VT General hospital, and this isnít a debate so I didnít see it fit to post in ROTW.


I suspect this will get challenged all the way to the US Surpreme Court, but if an unfavorable ruling comes from that court, itíll cause ripple effects in all the rest of the USA, affecting all of us.

Please be aware.
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Old April 1st, 2019, 08:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

I bet it will be challenged in the courts too. I can't see how something that limiting can remain legal.

Where I live such a restriction would never ever happen.
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Old April 1st, 2019, 09:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

Oh you can bet your bottom dollar that this is going to be instantly challenged, and likely head to the Supreme Court. Whether this results in the law being deemed constitutional or not is anyone's guess.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 02:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

That sucks so much. I fear for some of you Americans. States seem to do as much as they can to put stuff in the way of abortion and still have it legal. Like trying to guilt-trip women by making them have ultrasounds. It's evil. Not that we have a perfect system here in Australia but one of the major parties here just promised to provide free abortions (like taxpayer-funded) if they get into power, which - fingers-crossed - they do.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 08:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Originally Posted by ProbsNotInteresting View Post
That sucks so much. I fear for some of you Americans. States seem to do as much as they can to put stuff in the way of abortion and still have it legal. Like trying to guilt-trip women by making them have ultrasounds. It's evil. Not that we have a perfect system here in Australia but one of the major parties here just promised to provide free abortions (like taxpayer-funded) if they get into power, which - fingers-crossed - they do.
Tax payer funded abortions I can compromise on, there are financial accounting methods groups can use to document the income they take in for the organization can go to other neutral expenses like general healthcare utilities like water or electricity and employee salary and sex education campaigns about sti’s.


But don’t subject girls and women to enter a bureaucratic process to prove a rape because sex crimes and the reason metoo movement is a big deal is rape is partially a crime of context of intent. Even if you have samples of a guy’s semen IN you, the guy can claim “it was consensual rough sex”.

What is to stop a guy’s (or the state’s) defense lawyer from stalling a girl out for an abortion for those 6 weeks? If the girl is super non-sex educationed as some southern states are for teens, they don’t even know how to mental handle discovering their pregnant they’re going to freak out. Their first thought is *sob my family going to disown me, and I’m going to hell*


Roe v Wade never decided state’s rights towards abortion or how the middle ground handles it. It never decided the terminology of “personhood” and it didn’t decide monetary costs or legal prerequisites before accessing the right to have one, like that ultrasound test.


For me though I’ve always held the view that your faith should determine whether you seek an abortion or not and that is between that female individual and their relationship with God. If the word of God cannot convince them out of it, then that’s an exercise of freewill isn’t it? If their faith convinces them out of it, that’s a miracle right? What place does earthly law have here; none.

Last edited by Uniquemind; April 2nd, 2019 at 08:18 AM.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:34 AM   #6
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

Just so y'all are aware, there are legal exceptions due to rape, incest, and the mother's life.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 04:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Just so y'all are aware, there are legal exceptions due to rape, incest, and the mother's life.
But to exercise those a police report has to be filed. Which can be an obstacle given that some jurisdictions are very apathetic to processing rape kits are backlogged with them or even lost evidence.


Good that thatís language is technically there, but the reality of exercising those letters on the law might be a ďrealĒ problem in practice.

Are sex Ed programs in that state going to educate us this is in the penal code? Or is it like, well you teens figure it out on your own.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 09:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
But to exercise those a police report has to be filed. Which can be an obstacle given that some jurisdictions are very apathetic to processing rape kits are backlogged with them or even lost evidence.

Good that thatís language is technically there, but the reality of exercising those letters on the law might be a ďrealĒ problem in practice.
I believe that the law states that in order for the rape exemption to be available, one has to file a police report which is still pretty bad given that rape is hugely unreported.

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Are sex Ed programs in that state going to educate us this is in the penal code? Or is it like, well you teens figure it out on your own.
I'm pretty doubtful that Georgia schools would given that they are dominated by abstinence-only sex education - the least effective education when it comes to preventing unwanted pregnancy, mind you. These laws aren't really about legislating "morality" - they're made to hurt people who don't fit with the ideal of conservatives, especially because the people who will be hurt will be women and disproportionately poor.
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Old April 8th, 2019, 12:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Originally Posted by ProbsNotInteresting View Post
Like trying to guilt-trip women by making them have ultrasounds. It's evil.
How is letting a woman know that she's taking a life evil?

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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
For me though I’ve always held the view that your faith should determine whether you seek an abortion or not and that is between that female individual and their relationship with God. If the word of God cannot convince them out of it, then that’s an exercise of freewill isn’t it? If their faith convinces them out of it, that’s a miracle right? What place does earthly law have here; none.
So we should let the mystical sky me decide wether it's ok for a woman to murder her child?

the place where you ask RattleHead questions, and he answers them.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. - H.P Lovecraft

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Old April 8th, 2019, 12:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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How is letting a woman know that she's taking a life evil?



So we should let the mystical sky me decide wether it's ok for a woman to murder her child?
Because abortion isn't taking a life. A foetus is a clump of cells which is part of the woman - not a person in its own right. Therefore, it is her decision over what to do with the foetus. Abortion restrictions have a lot to do with society - and especially old white conservative men in the government - thinking that is has a right to control an individual woman's body.

The ultrasound is both a waste of money - pushing abortion further out of reach of poor women - and a tactic to psychologically harass women by trying to conflate a foetus with a baby - something that it has the potential to become but is NOT at that time.
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Old April 8th, 2019, 01:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Because abortion isn't taking a life. A foetus is a clump of cells which is part of the woman - not a person in its own right. Therefore, it is her decision over what to do with the foetus. Abortion restrictions have a lot to do with society - and especially old white conservative men in the government - thinking that is has a right to control an individual woman's body.

The ultrasound is both a waste of money - pushing abortion further out of reach of poor women - and a tactic to psychologically harass women by trying to conflate a foetus with a baby - something that it has the potential to become but is NOT at that time.
You can whine about the patriarchy all you like, that doesn't make it a real.
It's heart beats, it's a living thing.
Oh yes, because delivering a baby is just sooo deficult.

the place where you ask RattleHead questions, and he answers them.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. - H.P Lovecraft
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Old April 8th, 2019, 02:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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You can whine about the patriarchy all you like, that doesn't make it a real.
It's heart beats, it's a living thing.
Oh yes, because delivering a baby is just sooo deficult.
That last line there is an example because it’s presumptuous and it isn’t something that a guy is going to experience, and you don’t risk death because of it. Nature did not give the genders equal risk, and the whole point is for earthly law to rebalance that scale.

Now the social compromise is that if a woman is indecisive and it’s 20 weeks, sure fine the legal window closes for that procedure to be done, because then the foetus fits the definition of a human person now. But that’s a compromise where both sides lose something. It’s more fair, for an outcome that inevitably uses death.

The debate was always around the usage of it, and the intent behind it.

If it’s proved that someone is having multiple abortions and it’s become a provable pattern of birth-control then I’d feel differently.


But 6 weeks is unreasonable as this new law states and it’s a real health concern for the potential mothers.

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Old April 10th, 2019, 12:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
Just thought Iíd let everybody know that abortion, should you need one, is about to be illegal in the state of Georgia as soon as that stateís governor signs a bill restricting abortion access as soon as a heartbeat is detected which is approximately 6 weeks from conception.


I donít know if their are legal clauses for exception for rape or incest at all. But given that this can impact our romantic and sexual relationships and how we manage them I thought Iíd post this here. This post also can go in VT General hospital, and this isnít a debate so I didnít see it fit to post in ROTW.


I suspect this will get challenged all the way to the US Surpreme Court, but if an unfavorable ruling comes from that court, itíll cause ripple effects in all the rest of the USA, affecting all of us.

Please be aware.
The "Heartbeat Bill" is one of the strictest in the USA but, I fully support it. As for exceptions in case of rape or incest, a 20 week exception is indeed allowed however a police report must have been filed. Again, totally agree with this. Not brought up but, Roe v Wade was not only an over-reach by the US Supreme Court but was un-Constitutional as the SCOTUS had no right to make such a ruling for either Roe or Wade provided in any clause of the U.S. Constitution. Such decisions should be are supposed to be regulated by the States. If any girl/woman is raped or a victim of incest she SHOULD report such a violation to the police and should be tested for pregnancy right away and should be provided abortion services should she so choose. If a girl or woman has consensual but unprotected sex and thinks she could be pregnant she should be tested right away and if she doesn't want to carry the pregnancy to term, she should opt for abortion BEFORE the baby has a heartbeat. These ridiculous bills being introduced in states like Virginia and Colorado where a baby is crowning and then the mother decides she doesn't want the baby is murder. Governor Ralph Northam (D-VA) even stated publicly that he supports abortion even AFTER the baby has been delivered! Specifically what Northam stated is, "After the baby is born, we'll keep it comfortable and then the doctors and mother would decide what to do with the baby." THAT'S MURDER!

We have SO many options available to us and abortion as a form of birth control is barbaric. We have the pill, IUD's, Depo-Provera, condoms, Plan-B and so on. Killing a human life is again, BARBARIC!
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Old April 11th, 2019, 06:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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The "Heartbeat Bill" is one of the strictest in the USA but, I fully support it. As for exceptions in case of rape or incest, a 20 week exception is indeed allowed however a police report must have been filed. Again, totally agree with this. Not brought up but, Roe v Wade was not only an over-reach by the US Supreme Court but was un-Constitutional as the SCOTUS had no right to make such a ruling for either Roe or Wade provided in any clause of the U.S. Constitution. Such decisions should be are supposed to be regulated by the States. If any girl/woman is raped or a victim of incest she SHOULD report such a violation to the police and should be tested for pregnancy right away and should be provided abortion services should she so choose. If a girl or woman has consensual but unprotected sex and thinks she could be pregnant she should be tested right away and if she doesn't want to carry the pregnancy to term, she should opt for abortion BEFORE the baby has a heartbeat. These ridiculous bills being introduced in states like Virginia and Colorado where a baby is crowning and then the mother decides she doesn't want the baby is murder. Governor Ralph Northam (D-VA) even stated publicly that he supports abortion even AFTER the baby has been delivered! Specifically what Northam stated is, "After the baby is born, we'll keep it comfortable and then the doctors and mother would decide what to do with the baby." THAT'S MURDER!

We have SO many options available to us and abortion as a form of birth control is barbaric. We have the pill, IUD's, Depo-Provera, condoms, Plan-B and so on. Killing a human life is again, BARBARIC!
But those are two extremes in my opinions, however I’d agree with you that if the baby is born, outside of the mother already and living, adoption really is the only option at that point. I have not read the Virginia or Colorado bills yet.

Part of the problem too, is that sex education isn’t detailed or semantic enough to really let younger teens know their options without also attaching a lot of emotional guilt messages into sex in general.

Nationally, you also have to figure out how laws this strict, hurt teens who have oppressive parents, the kind of parents who freak out if they find out their sons and daughters are sexually active or even just dating, and react in ways where during a summer vacation break, they’ll force their child overseas with relatives to undergo FGM procedures or something radical.

Other areas of concern is how does one define abortion? Can an foetus be brain dead but still ironically have a heartbeat? What about ectopic pregnancies?


As is I can’t support Georgia’s bill/law because it isn’t specific nor flexible enough for the nuances of why medical procedure is sought out and seems to have been written only from the perspective of using abortion as a birth control method.

It doesn’t address the cascading environment that led up to that pregnancy nor does it have a support system to ensure a loving environment for mom and baby if she on her decision, decides to keep it.

Secondly, you have a history in the USA, of having police reports of where the crime took place having to be filed in the jurisdiction the crime occurred, and this isn’t always clear, so if a girl or woman was in this scenario (highly likely alcohol was involved) would she have enough wit about her to do all that homework let alone deal with any bureaucracy should paperwork get misfiled or 2 police Department’s going (sry not my jurisdiction you’ll have to go here)? How does a 13-15 year old girl drive to the police department to file this paperwork? Especially in small towns where you know rumor spreads, bullying is rampant, and suicide occurs because of those mediating factors. Police reports have a scarlet letter on them, they’re a record of public information...it can be used to bully.


THEN even if you get through that, you have to find medical professionals who can fit you into their schedule to do the procedure.

Realistically, you have a 2 week period to do this, as within 6 weeks, you only maybe noticed one period miss.

That is extremely unreasonable and could risk a return of back alley abortions.



EDIT: as of 5/15/2019 I have since learned there is an exception when it is provable that the life of the mother is in danger.

This nullifies SOME of my criticisms of this law, as I do hear the opposing point of view’s thesis statements beyond the moral argument of death of a human is immoral.


But I’ll add now that these criticisms now apply to Alabama law as that one has no exceptions even for rape and incest. It is for these reasons the abortion debate keeps being a talking point in election cycles and the criticisms that it’s a “token issue” brought up only to capture the female vote is a disingenuous criticism, because when the political Right hold power they always water down this issue to match their ideological view.


It is one of my greatest fears especially for younger teens to feel trapped by laws like this given when combined with the right of parents to homeschool (a legal right), effectively denies knowledge of all the prevention pregnancy methods @Jordan99 stated above.

I awaited a response as I felt I made a respectful but strong rebuttal, to her reasonable argument of how we have other methods of prevention that abortion isn’t necessary in the modern era, was a statement said without a wider holistic view of the environment in which teen pregnancies occur.

We also probably agree that abortion shouldn’t be used as birth control and that whatever system of change does get implemented some day, should track to see if the same particular women keep returning for repeat procedures.

Last edited by Uniquemind; May 17th, 2019 at 02:56 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2019, 05:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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But those are two extremes in my opinions, however Iíd agree with you that if the baby is born, outside of the mother already and living, adoption really is the only option at that point. I have not read the Virginia or Colorado bills yet.

Part of the problem too, is that sex education isnít detailed or semantic enough to really let younger teens know their options without also attaching a lot of emotional guilt messages into sex in general.

Nationally, you also have to figure out how laws this strict, hurt teens who have oppressive parents, the kind of parents who freak out if they find out their sons and daughters are sexually active or even just dating, and react in ways where during a summer vacation break, theyíll force their child overseas with relatives to undergo FGM procedures or something radical.

Other areas of concern is how does one define abortion? Can an foetus be brain dead but still ironically have a heartbeat? What about ectopic pregnancies?


As is I canít support Georgiaís bill/law because it isnít specific nor flexible enough for the nuances of why medical procedure is sought out and seems to have been written only from the perspective of using abortion as a birth control method.

It doesnít address the cascading environment that led up to that pregnancy nor does it have a support system to ensure a loving environment for mom and baby if she on her decision, decides to keep it.

Secondly, you have a history in the USA, of having police reports of where the crime took place having to be filed in the jurisdiction the crime occurred, and this isnít always clear, so if a girl or woman was in this scenario (highly likely alcohol was involved) would she have enough wit about her to do all that homework let alone deal with any bureaucracy should paperwork get misfiled or 2 police Departmentís going (sry not my jurisdiction youíll have to go here)? How does a 13-15 year old girl drive to the police department to file this paperwork? Especially in small towns where you know rumor spreads, bullying is rampant, and suicide occurs because of those mediating factors. Police reports have a scarlet letter on them, theyíre a record of public information...it can be used to bully.


THEN even if you get through that, you have to find medical professionals who can fit you into their schedule to do the procedure.

Realistically, you have a 2 week period to do this, as within 6 weeks, you only maybe noticed one period miss.

That is extremely unreasonable and could risk a return of back alley abortions.



EDIT: as of 5/15/2019 I have since learned there is an exception when it is provable that the life of the mother is in danger.

This nullifies SOME of my criticisms of this law, as I do hear the opposing point of viewís thesis statements beyond the moral argument of death of a human is immoral.


But Iíll add now that these criticisms now apply to Alabama law as that one has no exceptions even for rape and incest. It is for these reasons the abortion debate keeps being a talking point in election cycles and the criticisms that itís a ďtoken issueĒ brought up only to capture the female vote is a disingenuous criticism, because when the political Right hold power they always water down this issue to match their ideological view.


It is one of my greatest fears especially for younger teens to feel trapped by laws like this given when combined with the right of parents to homeschool (a legal right), effectively denies knowledge of all the prevention pregnancy methods @Jordan99 stated above.

I awaited a response as I felt I made a respectful but strong rebuttal, to her reasonable argument of how we have other methods of prevention that abortion isnít necessary in the modern era, was a statement said without a wider holistic view of the environment in which teen pregnancies occur.

We also probably agree that abortion shouldnít be used as birth control and that whatever system of change does get implemented some day, should track to see if the same particular women keep returning for repeat procedures.
The "Morning After Pill" (Plan B) is effective up to 72 hours after the unprotected sexual encounter has happened, doesn't require a prescription and there is no invasive procedure such as an abortion.
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Old May 18th, 2019, 10:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: State of Georgia abortion restrictions

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The "Morning After Pill" (Plan B) is effective up to 72 hours after the unprotected sexual encounter has happened, doesn't require a prescription and there is no invasive procedure such as an abortion.
But it still requires $ to obtain, and if you’re in a controlling household, I can see scenarios where some won’t be educationed like you are. Or your allowance doesn’t cover this, or parents have to be notified, or your just in that age group of 9-16, where you might be a mix of young hormonal and just uneducated on sex ed. Some states really guilt trip you even before a few years ago some states forced restrictions on plan-B, calling it morally equal too abortion.

You must admit that when you combine different contextual rights beyond looking at this issue singularly, it can be a problem falling through the cracks will happen. What if your homeschooled and a motivational factor for that was because parental didn’t want you exposed to comprehensive sex Ed. ??? That happens.

The AL, and MO laws now are even less reasonable and even you have said laws without (rape and incest) exceptions are too far.

Invasive procedures aren’t bad, they just shouldn’t be the go-to answer.


There was a time in history that it was ethically bad to obtain dead human bodies to study medical anatomy, (we’re talking 1500’s here), now a staple in education everywhere and highly valuable information for doctors.

The point being the cringe factor of various things in human history should not inherently prevent humanity for engaging in necessary evils. At least since I’ve learned Georgia’s law is more reasonable than I thought.

NY’s law is equally unreasonable and horrendous and I rebuke that as well.

Last edited by Uniquemind; May 18th, 2019 at 10:17 PM.
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