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Old August 21st, 2004, 12:55 AM   #161
Liquidkid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teenboy9
Its not some little thing on whats right or wrong. Whats right or wrong is not what this is about. I understand that you are not going to change your mind, because you have had a life time of this, a lifetime of emotions, and a lifetime of those emotions develope into opinions. I am not here to say your wrong, or to get you to change your opinion, because these things have developed over your life, and I cant open your mind. All I am trying to say is that TRY to understand where your mom is coming from. You dont have to agree with her, but you should support her, for at least no other reason beyond she is your mother.

once again my opinions havent been based on emotions for years and i have understood where my mom is coming from, she wants to be treated as a normal person, she wants to change a tradition thats been held for over a millenium, she wants to fufill her own desires even if others disagree, i do understand her, but i disagree with that~ and i have heard gay people who agree gay marriage doesnt belong in the christian church also

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Old August 21st, 2004, 02:26 AM   #162
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I don't care weither Gay's and lesbians are allowed to be married in a church. I plain old don't see the point in marriage. I'm never getting married, I'm not in the slightest bit religous, so for me to go into a church and have a preist proclaim that I have made a covenent with god to be with a girl till I die, no thank you. If I love a girl then I'll live with her till I die, I don't need to get married.

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Old August 21st, 2004, 08:33 AM   #163
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I beleive that it is unfair for ppl to not let other ppl be who they are. everyone should have the right to do something that makes them feel good (especially in the case of love).

We all have the right to experience it, whether ot not this love is of a homosexual nature. It is wrong to dismiss ones feelings because they are not the ideal model citizen or or gay/lesbian.

It is also wrong to even have to create a law to banish gay/lesbian marriages. Who gave them the right to decide what is right and what is wrong.

These are the ppl who vote. If you take away there ability to love a person of the same sex then they won't vote. Especially if they're a majority.

In conclusion; we all have the right to be what/who ever we want to be. No one should tell you other wise.

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Old August 21st, 2004, 10:15 AM   #164
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Liquidkid, the one thing I do not understand is why you are trying to "hold up a tradition". Marriage has not been the same thing, practiced for a "millennium". Marriage was used to exchange goods between families. Also women were looked on as having to be taken care of, so once the girl got old enough she got married so she would be taken care of by her husband and his family. These marriages were not for love, so that when the girl was too old to taken care by her mother, she got "married" and was taken care by her husband, and this took place around the ages of 12-14 to a middle aged man. Over time marriage CHANGED, to be completely a religious act, the husband, the wife and the children they created were symbolic of the nature between man and God. Once again though marriage started to CHANGE people wanted to get married because they felt love for each other, and felt marriage itself was no longer a symbol of Christianity, but a symbol of their love. That time can be pin pointed to when the Christian church started to marry men and women who could not produce children, causing the symbolic religious nature of marriage to fall away. Flash forward a few hundred years to present day. To a new time in marriage, a time like NO OTHER in the history of marriage, a time where the current values of marriage are ones you want to protect. In this time over half the marriages that occur in the USA each year will end in divorce. A time where you can go to places live Los Vegas and get married in a drunken haze in 5 minutes under the eyes of God. A time where we can go online, text messages your vote for the people you want to see get married next week on TV. You are right when you say marriage is in danger, but your not seeing the real problems, your just staring right in the face of the only thing that might save it all. Most people do not value marriage as they use to, and that’s why its falling apart, but by bringing in a fresh population of people who want t get married, a population which is fighting tooth and nail for it, and if they do get it there going to value the work they did to get it. They are going to value the fact that there was a possibility they would not have been able to get married. This is a group of people who will understand how sacred and rare, strong bonded, love filled marriages truly are. But please explain to me how gay marriage is going to do harm?
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Old August 21st, 2004, 01:15 PM   #165
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I have to agree with you. I am catholic, and I know that even the church says not to discriminate, they say that homosexuality is a sin, but most everything is a sin anyway.
On the other hand, most people in the government are christian, you see no athiests, but they should understand that if this really is a free country, then all people should have the right to marry. Marriage doesn't have to be made in a church, and just because everyones afraid of it, doesn't mean that other people can't live. All people in America should have the right to live happily as long as they are not threatening the lives of others, and I really don't think being gay is threatening our lives is it??
Am I making sense?
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 04:24 AM   #166
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harm? nothing in the sense of hurting people, but in the sense of making them think they should be able to do whatever they want~ if the world keeps conceding defeat and accepting such things, people are just going to keep pushing on boundries, some people of course, will be able to tell when to stop pushing the limits, but in general, man kind isnt all that intuitive, theyll go with what the rest of the world is doing, people need limits~

this isnt a religious matter for me, im a bhuddist ~ and you dont understand why im trying to keep a tradition? im not trying to keep one im just thinking it should be. Humans live to much in the present, only thinking of what they want here and now, and not what the lessons of the past have taught us and what our actions could do to the future, people who want this marriage are pushing on the tempers of millions just because they want to be able to do everything they want, with out just being happy with what they have, if change is to come, it has to come slowly and not forcefully.


and if you don't understand the pride i have in my own thoughts and tradition, then you have a different perspective on life, try and see my perspective, not as the son of one such people, but as someone values almost everything above simple emotion.

Quote:
. Marriage doesn't have to be made in a church
The easiest. fricken. solution. have a different ceremony, this doesnt stomp on the beliefs of so many, nor force a change that isnt neccisary. yet could still join them in law.

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 10:25 AM   #167
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So your saying the reason gay marriage should not be allowed is because people need to have limits? That’s like saying; "no one can have ice cream anymore because we need to know our sense of limits." Society is something that has ALWAYS been testing the limits of what it is said people can do. If we kept "limits" there would be no interracial marriages, heck minorities would not have equal rights. If we never tested limits women would not be able to vote, or work out of the home. You are right, when people want to change these limits people get angry, generally because they just do not like change. When women protested for the vote, many were beat up and locked away in jail cells for days, or even weeks on end. Maybe we should apply your reasoning to past events, like why free the slaves, that’s going to make a heck of a lot of people angry, maybe even more angry then gay marriage. Obviously this example is not to the same level, but we cant run our world thinking you should not do something because that might make someone upset. Our world changes over time, ONLY because people test physical, and social limits. If you have a car that can only go 5 miles an hour, its not going to get fixed by the guy in the back seat saying, "don’t improve the car, its fine the way it is, we will all get to the store eventually." Change is not easy, and its NOT going to happen if you move slowly and hope everyone changes their minds. You have to push hard and keep pushing hard, that’s the only way change comes. When you get to the end, and there are enough people to support it, then like many other things will be added to society as the norm. Don’t like it, turn around and just look in a different direction.
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 03:57 PM   #168
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you act like you think people need to push and there needs to be change, like ive said maybe 5 times no and your yet to respond to, why not hold a different ceremony, with different customs, instead of pushing on a barrier unneccisarily.

Your making it sound like im saying gays are second class citizens, not true, they should have the same civil rights with us but they have different lifestyles and therfor it would be easier to build new customs to support that lifestyle rather then being completely assimilated like theyre so close to doing.

In short, Limits should be pushed, or shattered entirely, when things must be changed, but if there is an alternate solution, that is preferable.

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 06:44 PM   #169
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But until they have FULL equal rights, they are not same class citizens. They need to be able to have ALL the legal rights any heterosexual couple would have. The reason they cannot have something different is because many of them have the same beliefs, yet they were born different people. Maybe this is a reason to once again have a new more accepting branch of Christianity?
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 11:41 PM   #170
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we are born different.... so why treat everyone exactly the same? i dont want to be treated just like a black white or brown guy, because im not, people are going to make generalisations so prepare to be treated differently then everyone else.

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Old August 23rd, 2004, 09:23 AM   #171
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Obviously people are going to treated different from each other, but last time I checked if you were black, white or brown you are treated the same when you walk into church.
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:47 AM   #172
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not neccesarily, there are "black churches" and "white churches" but alot of times every one goes. what i mean by "black church" and "white church" is thwe ppl whole go to that church, if a majority of blacks go to a certain church a white might not be that welcome. and vice versa.

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Old August 24th, 2004, 03:46 PM   #173
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Equal rights means equal for EVERYONE. Last time I looked gays only want equal rights. Its unamerican not to give gays the same rights others enjoy.

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Old August 24th, 2004, 06:39 PM   #174
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Hello, to any of you who remember kingofpythias posting on here, i have some bad news. Kingofpythias died about 3 weeks ago of an aneurysm that was declared inoperable. He was gay and gay marriage was a big issue of his on here. my name is kevin, im 18/m/kansas and i was his next door neighbor and the executor of his estate. please contact [email protected] for any condolences. thank you and god bless.
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Old August 24th, 2004, 09:09 PM   #175
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That is sad... but people die.... and well... life goes on~ the fact that he's gay doesnt meen i care less in the slightest, i offer his family my condolences and i hope he has gone to a better place~

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Old August 26th, 2004, 05:31 PM   #176
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Why is it the good people die young? It sucks.

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Old September 30th, 2004, 06:10 PM   #177
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I have no problem with gay people, if you want to be together fine, but i believe marriage is a holy and sacred thing.

If Any Member needs to talk to me about anything, Just PM me, the door is always open.

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Old October 1st, 2004, 03:04 PM   #178
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no, marriage is the greatist way to show that you love someone and to make a bond between two people. what if two people that dont have any set of beliefs or religion got married . nobody would say that they cant get married. who are we to say that they cantshow there love and get married. what if it was the other way around. what if there was a law that said that you could not get married to the person that you loved. you would feel like you were hated. there is only one reson that that people say gays cant marry and that is because of religion and religion has no place in law. not having religion in law has made us free.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:40 AM   #179
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Its still boils down to giving gay equal rights. It the American thing to do.

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Old October 15th, 2004, 11:45 AM   #180
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I just think that gays should have the same rights as homosexuals, but just in a civil union. Yes, we have no right to judge, but churches have an obligation to combat sin. You can't deny that maraige was started to recognise people as being promised to each other, and ready to start a family.
sorry young ones, but regardless of what you've heard in church or on fox news, marriage existed before christianity and judaism. It was not created as a religious practice; couples have been promising themselves to each other before they ever heard of Jesus and God a few thousand years ago.

also, have you not noticed that many people get married without any religious backing? They go to the courhouse, sign the papers, and get married. Sometimes it's because they're in love, sometimes it's because they got pregnant accidentally, sometimes it's so they can get tax breaks - but you don't have to get married in a church, you don't need a preacher to sanctify it, and if you're going to talk about "the sanctity of marriage," did you know that half of all marriages end in divorce?

IF you want to protect marriage as a sacred institution and you wan't to ban something, ban divorce. You shouldn't ban any of it, but it's obviously hypocritical to say that gay marriage is wrong but to allow divorce, don't you think?

Hate that it's me who has to burst your little religious bubbles.
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