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Old February 15th, 2018, 09:16 PM   #1
scott2002
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Default Florida school shooting

I'm real shaken up about what happened in Florida. I keep thinking, what if it happened it my school??? I feel SO BAD for all of those who were killed. Please share thoughts and prayers for the Florida families that have lost someone.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 09:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

I feel fortunate that I live in Australia where this kind of thing doesn't happen any more. I was in English class when I heard the news and it made me feel sick at the idea of something like that happening at my school. I can't imagine what the kids who lost friends and family to this are going through. No kid should have to experience this.

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Old February 15th, 2018, 10:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

We need more guns so we can protect against these stuff, because you know, giving people more guns would help the situation. #Republican Party #NRA

But seriously, America needs to get itself together and do something about guns.


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Old February 16th, 2018, 12:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

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Originally Posted by Timd9 View Post
We need more guns so we can protect against these stuff, because you know, giving people more guns would help the situation. #Republican Party #NRA

But seriously, America needs to get itself together and do something about guns.

Americans are stuck in a culture and ideological war right now. To be honest guns and their benefits are an ideology other developed countries do not have and that makes USA's situation unique.


I think the solution for now that will politically pass Congress is to have armed school marshals (like we have Air Marshals), and airport style security checkpoints and measures on roads to and from schools because I don't think a large enough percentage of the country and therefore Congress can vote for legislation that restricts the flow of guns, ammo, and gun accessories. To my knowledge we might not have banned bump-stocks after the Nevada shooting tragedy....that's how bad a time America's leaders have with this problem.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 01:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
Americans are stuck in a culture and ideological war right now. To be honest guns and their benefits are an ideology other developed countries do not have and that makes USA's situation unique.


I think the solution for now that will politically pass Congress is to have armed school marshals (like we have Air Marshals), and airport style security checkpoints and measures on roads to and from schools because I don't think a large enough percentage of the country and therefore Congress can vote for legislation that restricts the flow of guns, ammo, and gun accessories. To my knowledge we might not have banned bump-stocks after the Nevada shooting tragedy....that's how bad a time America's leaders have with this problem.
Eh, what do I know, I just dont want to go to school one day and get shot


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Old February 16th, 2018, 03:28 AM   #6
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Eh, what do I know, I just dont want to go to school one day and get shot
The truth of the matter is we need to make peace with the concept that this can happen anytime and anywhere.

It's illogical to assume it can only happen at school, but your brain is playing a trick on you epistemically because it's only contemplating the concept of what is repeating on the news as well as what's freshest in your memory.


Meditate on this, and just hold your loved one's close and live life carefully and thoughtfully (not in a YOLO partystyle way) but in ways that would make those who were victims proud.

We carry their burden of continuing the species and creating a more perfect world on our shoulders now. That's a type of mission worth pursuing don't you agree?


If the worst happens to us one day, so be it, I fought the good and peaceful and righteous fight.

But this is why I have posted my previous position on life that this is why childhood should be used less frivolously, the world is expecting us to be leaders younger and younger so we aren't deceived by the corrupt generation that came before us and who currently hold power.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 10:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
The truth of the matter is we need to make peace with the concept that this can happen anytime and anywhere.

It's illogical to assume it can only happen at school, but your brain is playing a trick on you epistemically because it's only contemplating the concept of what is repeating on the news as well as what's freshest in your memory.


Meditate on this, and just hold your loved one's close and live life carefully and thoughtfully (not in a YOLO partystyle way) but in ways that would make those who were victims proud.

We carry their burden of continuing the species and creating a more perfect world on our shoulders now. That's a type of mission worth pursuing don't you agree?


If the worst happens to us one day, so be it, I fought the good and peaceful and righteous fight.

But this is why I have posted my previous position on life that this is why childhood should be used less frivolously, the world is expecting us to be leaders younger and younger so we aren't deceived by the corrupt generation that came before us and who currently hold power.
I guess Yeah.


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Old February 16th, 2018, 11:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

Being British, it's impossible for me to fully understand how America has reached the stage it has reached regarding guns, gun laws and the right to carry weapons to defend yourselves.

My heart tells me that banning guns is the only answer. But that would only push the problem underground and criminals would still carry out atrocities.

So my head tells me that personality or suitability testing might help if only those who show they are only going to use weapons defensively are allowed to carry them.

I know there's no easy answer and my heart goes out to every victim of this latest Florida mass shooting.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 11:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

My heart goes out as to all the other mass shooting victims and their families. It's so sad that are species has to continue a trend that others has started. May God give peace to those who have died in all these try to tragedies.

The authorities say that they always look for reasons why they take lives but the only reason is they can do it bigger and better then the person before them ,they want to go down in history for the most kills in a mass shooting. What other reason could there be?


That's just my opinion.


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Old February 16th, 2018, 12:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

It's so hard to see another shooting happen. It's the harshest reality, and the fact that it happens.. it sucks more than words. I don't understand, and I'm not sure if I ever will.

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Old February 16th, 2018, 06:10 PM   #11
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This younger generation has no values or morals. Children learn what they are taught. If it isn't taught it isn't learned. Everything a child sees or hears teaches them something. If they have no values or morality whose fault is that? Many seem too engrossed in video games, movies, etc. that show the use of weapons but not the reality of the aftermath. Then too, parents seem oblivious to what effect this has on teens and pre-teens. Personally, there should be more control on the violence included in video games, etc. The reality of war and violence is much different than what they see on a computer or movie screen. My parents never let me have toy guns, war video games or other stuff. And I thank them so much.

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Old February 16th, 2018, 09:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

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Originally Posted by Tom55 View Post
This younger generation has no values or morals. Children learn what they are taught. If it isn't taught it isn't learned. Everything a child sees or hears teaches them something. If they have no values or morality whose fault is that? Many seem too engrossed in video games, movies, etc. that show the use of weapons but not the reality of the aftermath. Then too, parents seem oblivious to what effect this has on teens and pre-teens. Personally, there should be more control on the violence included in video games, etc. The reality of war and violence is much different than what they see on a computer or movie screen. My parents never let me have toy guns, war video games or other stuff. And I thank them so much.
Video games and war doesn't create school shooters, insane people and horrible gun laws do.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 09:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

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Originally Posted by Tom55 View Post
This younger generation has no values or morals. Children learn what they are taught. If it isn't taught it isn't learned. Everything a child sees or hears teaches them something. If they have no values or morality whose fault is that? Many seem too engrossed in video games, movies, etc. that show the use of weapons but not the reality of the aftermath. Then too, parents seem oblivious to what effect this has on teens and pre-teens. Personally, there should be more control on the violence included in video games, etc. The reality of war and violence is much different than what they see on a computer or movie screen. My parents never let me have toy guns, war video games or other stuff. And I thank them so much.
That’s part of the problem though and academic studies have not found a correlation as simple to say media like violence in video games and movies contributes to this.


However when it comes to news media talking about people who do these crimes it should be against FCC policy for media companies to show the shooter’s face. People who do this need to be censored the F out of any illusion of notoriety.

People who do these kinds of things do them because they’re sick, they want attention because they feel like their the victim their whole life as they commit the crime it feels empowering to them.

So these situations call for a complete and total revamp of both the first and second amendments to the US constitution with regards to free press when it comes to these stories and also the concept that more comprehensive background checks violate the right to bare arms.

—-

So let’s understand why these events happen, because I’m seeing a lot of “I don’t understand why this happens” responses.


These events occur due to a mix of factors of how USA’s society teaches are important qualities to have in life:

1. Wealth
2.popularity
3. Fame
4. Being handsome, talented, or beautiful
5. Lack of mental health services and program being funded
6. Emphasis on the individuals relative to others.

7. Sacredness of the ideology of the 2nd amendment and even surpreme court rulings, blocking creative and realistic research solutions to analyzing the flow of weapons and how they end up in bad hands and involved in crime statistics. The counters to why we shouldn’t examine changes to this amendment are only ideological they aren’t pragmatic, they’re excuses to dodge a hard discussion:

1. oh your politicizing the issue

2. Oh it’s too soon let the families grieve


Well the truth is those families NEVER HEAL; discuss the issue fix the foundation of why tragedies like this take place or at the very least reduce their prevalence.


It’s also a breakdown of zero tolerant school policies on discipline and how communities are addressing bullying as well. Do they follow-up with students they suspend or expell? Are they addressing contributing factors with the student body to address that by bullying they do run the risk of endangering their school....don’t tempt a lion or bully on social media.


Law enforcement also messed up because we now know a YouTuber did report this shooter’s comments from his channel and the FBI did not respond or follow up properly.

This tells me that website companies and operators need to work closely with law enforcement so tracing real people behind username accounts becomes much easier on Patriot Act grounds.

VT as a website is also not immune to this as I remember some VT posters also making such comments, and I am curious about transparency and site policy of when people such as Val will cross that line and contact law enforcement. Also this is why I think it’s important that we know why so and so was banned and who was really harassing members of our community.


But this affects the top 20 social media services and cross-moderation among all those platforms must also exist. Right now that infrastructure doesn’t exist!


So any bill needs to look at the second amendment to see if it is modern, we need to look at the first amendment and see how media gives fame to perpetrators of such crime and if censorship is appropriate.

There’s a LOT of stuff that needs to be in one giant legislative bill, and it’s possible schools need federal funding for an Air Marshal type security program and we all have to get security pat downs daily. In every school’s design in terms of architecture needs to have bulletproof glass like the best armored money trucks have.


We need this discussion it must approach the topic beyond the initial trauma and it can hold nothing sacred beyond debate.

If someone makes a false equivocation or red herring, call em out by name.


This is why school teaches us critical thinking skills and persuasive essay skills....this is the fight of our time!

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Old February 18th, 2018, 05:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

It's sad to know that people are willing to do this sort of crap. It's even worse knowing that was the 18th shooting for the year. There needs to be some tighter security and harsher penalties for those who break the law. As to victims who are left with mental, emotional and physical scars, I wish you all the best.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 12:46 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DragonflySphere View Post
It's sad to know that people are willing to do this sort of crap. It's even worse knowing that was the 18th shooting for the year. There needs to be some tighter security and harsher penalties for those who break the law. As to victims who are left with mental, emotional and physical scars, I wish you all the best.
To be fair it's more like the 8th shooting that fits this criminal behavior profile.

The 18th number is a inflated number also counting accidental discharges of guns, as "mass shootings".

So I wish the media would correct this #18 crap it hurts their credibility.

But still 8 mass shootings is WAY to much.


School lockdown policy and procedures would be more effective if it was just a knife, a knife can't hurt ppl through locked doors....

So that's why the knive crime statistics from other countries that have anti-gun policies and laws isn't a fair comparison.

In real life remember to give this rebuttal because they always counter you in debate with this.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 05:13 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Uniquemind View Post
To be fair it's more like the 8th shooting that fits this criminal behavior profile.

The 18th number is a inflated number also counting accidental discharges of guns, as "mass shootings".

So I wish the media would correct this #18 crap it hurts their credibility.

But still 8 mass shootings is WAY to much.


School lockdown policy and procedures would be more effective if it was just a knife, a knife can't hurt ppl through locked doors....

So that's why the knive crime statistics from other countries that have anti-gun policies and laws isn't a fair comparison.

In real life remember to give this rebuttal because they always counter you in debate with this.
Sorry I'm not in the US so that's why I didn't get the full detail on each shooting but I agree that 8 is 8 too many.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 09:59 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DragonflySphere View Post
It's sad to know that people are willing to do this sort of crap. It's even worse knowing that was the 18th shooting for the year. There needs to be some tighter security and harsher penalties for those who break the law. As to victims who are left with mental, emotional and physical scars, I wish you all the best.
The natural assumption seems to be that the deterrent effect of a punishment is the simple product of the harshness of the penalty and the chance of getting caught, hence the call for harsher punishments any time someone was not sufficiently deterred.

In practice the chance of getting caught seems to have much more effect. People are much less likely to speed, for example, with a simple fixed penalty (fine and license points) and automatic detection through average speed cameras which can't be gamed than by threatening jail with no real enforcement action.

Also, in the case of crackpot shootings it is not uncommon for the crackpot to either finish by shooting himself or get shot by police at the scene as the quickest way to stop him and there is nothing the courts can do that can trump that.

Someone said earlier in the thread that we need to get used to these things happenning but they don't happen everywhere at the same frequency. How often some crackpot decides to lash out at innocent people who have the misfortune to be gathered at in a particular place at a particular time seems to be a function of the wider society and there is something about American society that make them more common there than for example in the UK, or France or Canada etc. Canada has any many guns per person as the USA but a fraction of the gun crime. It really is time to see if there are factors that can be changed in American society to make people going off the rails in this way less likely and to make reaching for a weapon less apealing as the solution to a problem. America has many great achievements but there are other great places to live in the world that don't have this problem.

And, of course, there is the availability of weapons. Even when people do go off the rails and perpetrate this kind of attack the consequences are more limited if they don't have the same access to firearms. Australia has tried this approach and it has worked for them.

Some people have commented that it is unfair on those who are mentally ill but not violent to loose their right to carry arms but isn't that a lower price to pay for society as a whole that the lives of those who get shot and those who are left heartbroken by their shooting?
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Old February 19th, 2018, 10:12 AM   #18
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The natural assumption seems to be that the deterrent effect of a punishment is the simple product of the harshness of the penalty and the chance of getting caught, hence the call for harsher punishments any time someone was not sufficiently deterred.

In practice the chance of getting caught seems to have much more effect. People are much less likely to speed, for example, with a simple fixed penalty (fine and license points) and automatic detection through average speed cameras which can't be gamed than by threatening jail with no real enforcement action.

Also, in the case of crackpot shootings it is not uncommon for the crackpot to either finish by shooting himself or get shot by police at the scene as the quickest way to stop him and there is nothing the courts can do that can trump that.

Someone said earlier in the thread that we need to get used to these things happenning but they don't happen everywhere at the same frequency. How often some crackpot decides to lash out at innocent people who have the misfortune to be gathered at in a particular place at a particular time seems to be a function of the wider society and there is something about American society that make them more common there than for example in the UK, or France or Canada etc. Canada has any many guns per person as the USA but a fraction of the gun crime. It really is time to see if there are factors that can be changed in American society to make people going off the rails in this way less likely and to make reaching for a weapon less apealing as the solution to a problem. America has many great achievements but there are other great places to live in the world that don't have this problem.

And, of course, there is the availability of weapons. Even when people do go off the rails and perpetrate this kind of attack the consequences are more limited if they don't have the same access to firearms. Australia has tried this approach and it has worked for them.

Some people have commented that it is unfair on those who are mentally ill but not violent to loose their right to carry arms but isn't that a lower price to pay for society as a whole that the lives of those who get shot and those who are left heartbroken by their shooting?


^This
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Old March 7th, 2018, 05:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Florida school shooting

I am very saddened over the shooting. The country in general is mourning.
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