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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:41 AM   #1
mattsmith48
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Default Repenting

Sometimes religious people, mostly does who feel insecure about other people not believing in God or people who use God to justify things like homophobia, will ask Agnostics and Atheists ''if you don't believe in God where do you get your morals from and what stops you from going out and killing people?''

In another thread their was a discussion about how God will let anyone into Heaven if they repent them self no matter what they did. It got me thinking if people really believe that what stops them from going on a murder spree GTA style? As long you feel sorry about it, you'll get into Heaven.

Also since most religious people are for this, if God really let in anyone who repent, is the death penalty really a penalty? If the person believes this shit and regrets what he did, what is he losing?

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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Repenting

From what I've learnt, simply repenting and feeling sorry isn't enough in some cases. In your example of murder, the person would be expected to perform some kind of penance, which could be providing support to the affected family.



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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Repenting

I'm religious. And, I actually never understood that.

Also, If God enemy is Satan, then why is he working with him hand to hand with Hell?

Also, also, ''If you don't believe in God where do you get your morals from and what stops you from going out and killing people?'', this question is utterly stupid and dumb, these people assume that people without a God are rampant animals. You get morals from your family, your past experiences and common sense.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Repenting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagicPotato View Post
I'm religious. And, I actually never understood that.

Also, If God enemy is Satan, then why is he working with him hand to hand with Hell?

Also, also, ''If you don't believe in God where do you get your morals from and what stops you from going out and killing people?'', this question is utterly stupid and dumb, these people assume that people without a God are rampant animals. You get morals from your family, your past experiences and common sense.
Im nit so sure Id call it a stupid statement really. Many people believe that your morals are derived from religious upbringing. And can also come from values and experiences as well. Having a difference of opinions I dont think makes for dumb question or anything. But it can bring up good conversation a story people have difference of opinions

And we should all be ok with that


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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Repenting

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Sometimes religious people, mostly does who feel insecure about other people not believing in God or people who use God to justify things like homophobia, will ask Agnostics and Atheists ''if you don't believe in God where do you get your morals from and what stops you from going out and killing people?''
Confucius' golden rule "Don't do unto other what you don't want others to do unto you" would be my guess, because it existed way long before Jesus was born and because it makes such a perfect sense no matter what.

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Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
In another thread their was a discussion about how God will let anyone into Heaven if they repent them self no matter what they did. It got me thinking if people really believe that what stops them from going on a murder spree GTA style? As long you feel sorry about it, you'll get into Heaven.
But people don't believe that in the first place. If you're an atheist, you could go on a murder spree for any reason but you wouldn't believe that you'd go to Heaven nevertheless if you repent afterwards because you don't believe in Heaven or God in the first place. When it comes to Christians (or most religious people, although I can't speak for every religion), it seems to me that would go against their most basic morals. We don't sin because we know we can repent afterwards. We sin because we're fragile, imperfect humans, vulnerable to the Devil's influence.


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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Repenting

Most religious people belief that you need to repent or believe in God for Salvation or both. I don't think that you have a clear understanding of the word repent. Repenting is being sorry and doing all that you can to make things right and may also include some for of justice. Going on a murder spree and announcing that you are sorry is not repenting. And for the record, I don't think that you need to be religious to be moral.


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Old December 31st, 2017, 03:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Repenting

Ok, so a lot of people have the wrong idea about what repentance actually is. It is not saying sorry. That is not repentance. It can be the emotion that comes with it, but it is not it. Repentance means to change ones thinking. So for a murderer who committed crimes to understand how wrong his actions were and never do them again and change the way he thinks to one in line with Jesus, would be an example of repentance. Not going around killing people and then saying sorry.

As for morality, I don't think they mean it in that way either. Perhaps they mean, what is stopping you from killing people and where does that morality come from in a general sense that it can't just appear out of nothing like people suggest. I'm not sure what they said, but I would hope they meant it that way anyways.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 09:06 AM   #8
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Default Re: Repenting

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith48 View Post
Also since most religious people are for this, if God really let in anyone who repent, is the death penalty really a penalty? If the person believes this shit and regrets what he did, what is he losing?
The argument you mentioned is often presented badly, but this gets to the heart of the matter.

An atheist can in principle observe any number of moral rules (although in practice, "don't go out and kill people" tends to be the extent of it), but that isn't the point. The Pharisees adhered to many moral rules, but Jesus never ceased to tell them where they were going. The reason for that, is that as He taught, it is fundamental to a moral life to have humility and charity, without these no one can be truly moral.

And getting back to the question quoted above, a Christian ought to rejoice that we can by the same act carry out justice on Earth and spur a sinner to repentance. Humility (since we are all at risk of damnation, only pride could inspire satisfaction at the damnation of another) and charity (which requires that we desire the ultimate good of all) dictate this, but are utterly lost on an atheist.

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I'm religious. And, I actually never understood that.
The ultimate end (as in goal) of man is union with God. By necessity, this requires that we choose God as our highest goal. When we choose to commit mortal sin, we are choosing to place some created good above God, and in doing so make it impossible to enter Heaven.

Thankfully, that isn't the end of the story. By his grace, God moves us to repentance for our action. To "count", repentance must be real and internal, the person must genuinely regret his sins, and intend to amend his life. This includes performing the penance imposed by the confessor and (if the sin was against strict justice) making appropriate restitution when possible.

Do we deserve this? No, but if we got what we deserve, we'd all be screwed, not just the spree killers.

Quote:
Also, If God enemy is Satan, then why is he working with him hand to hand with Hell?
God desires the salvation of all, Satan desires the damnation of all. God moves men to right action and repentance, Satan moves them to sin and obstinacy in it. Their goals are diametrically opposed.

The primary punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, the fact that a person has decided to choose some created good as his highest goal, and as a consequence can never be happy. Yes, there is fire, with which God punishes demons and damned humans alike, but that is supplemental to the misery they have created for themselves.
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