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Old December 4th, 2017, 08:01 PM   #1
Voice_Of_Unreason
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Default Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ravel-ban.html
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Handing the White House a huge judicial victory, the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday ruled in favor of President Trump’s travel ban affecting residents of six majority-Muslim countries.

The justices said the policy can take full effect despite multiple legal challenges against it that haven’t yet made their way through the legal system.

The ban applies to people from Syria, Chad, Iran, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.

Lower courts had said people from those countries with a "bona fide" relationship with someone in the United States could not be prevented from entry. Grandparents and cousins were among the relatives courts said could not be excluded.

The nine-member high court said in two one-page orders late Monday afternoon that lower court rulings that partly blocked the ban should be put on hold while appeals courts in Richmond, Va., and San Francisco take up the case.

...The justices offered no explanation for their order, but the administration had said that blocking the full ban was causing "irreparable harm" because the policy is based on legitimate national security and foreign policy concerns.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 08:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

Chad? Since when are they a part of this? Are the US bombing them too and just forgot to tell anyone?

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Old December 4th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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Chad? Since when are they a part of this? Are the US bombing them too and just forgot to tell anyone?
They've been apart of this since Trump issued a revised travel ban in September. And no, there hasn't been any US military action in the nation.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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They've been apart of this since Trump issued a revised travel ban in September. And no, there hasn't been any US military action in the nation.
And why are they on the list then? I mean there must be a reason and explanation for the countries on the list. If it is because of Boko Haram why they and not Nigeria?

It's not really logical at all...some very dangerous countries are simply left out for no obvious reasons why other places seem to have been added at random.

But I'm afraid it would be too much to expect any kind of logic from our government.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 09:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

IIRC the only reason a country is on the list is if they have some sort of "religious" extremism going on.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 09:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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And why are they on the list then? I mean there must be a reason and explanation for the countries on the list. If it is because of Boko Haram why they and not Nigeria?

It's not really logical at all...some very dangerous countries are simply left out for no obvious reasons why other places seem to have been added at random.
Gotta kind of agree with you there. The specific reasoning for some of these countries, like Chad, don't make much sense considering that there are countries that are similar or worse that aren't on the ban. I felt that Trump's original ban made more sense, this revised one is just odd. I know that the countries for the ban are chosen on a variety of different factors; The amount of terrorism, the stability of the government, their cooperation with the US, among other things that I really don't know anything about. But yeah, if the Trump administration could give us a bit more explanation as to why these specific countries are chosen, it would be nice.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 10:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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Gotta kind of agree with you there. The specific reasoning for some of these countries, like Chad, don't make much sense considering that there are countries that are similar or worse that aren't on the ban. I felt that Trump's original ban made more sense, this revised one is just odd. I know that the countries for the ban are chosen on a variety of different factors; The amount of terrorism, the stability of the government, their cooperation with the US, among other things that I really don't know anything about. But yeah, if the Trump administration could give us a bit more explanation as to why these specific countries are chosen, it would be nice.
And I feel if people would get honest explanation and reasons about this whole issue I guess it would also help the discussions about it. For a lot of people it just looks like some Muslim countries being chosen at random and therefore the ban just seems like an unfair tantrum of the President to them.
If more information would be given by the government I guess people would be able to get a much clearer view on it and understand better what they really approve or oppose.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 11:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

It was bound to happen sooner or later

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Old December 4th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

gotta love the travel ban and the tax cuts... Ugh fuck these guys, honestly. They’re not trying to protect anyone

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Old December 5th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

From what I have read, the reason that Chad was added to the restricted nations list was that Chad failed to provide the DHS with a sample it's passport paper. DHS spokesman further said that they are working with Chadian officials to come up with a more secure passports and other travel related documents. Another reason could be that Chad cannot provide adequate updates on public safety and terrorism related information to the USA. DHS claims that once these problems are resolved Chad could be remove from the restricted nations list.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 12:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

My issue with the ban doesn't come from who is on the list, but who is not. If this travel ban is truly to combat extremist elements, why would Saudi Arabia be excluded from this list? Whether directly involved or not, Saudi has been linked or accused of having links with far more terrorist actions and groups than Somalia, Yemen or even Iran ever have. In fact, I don't hugely see why Iran is even on there considering that the Iranians have been confirmed by the Trump Administration themselves to be following their ends of the Nuclear agreement as well as every other pact the two nations have together. If anything, that may be another thing to do with the sour relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 04:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
My issue with the ban doesn't come from who is on the list, but who is not. If this travel ban is truly to combat extremist elements, why would Saudi Arabia be excluded from this list? Whether directly involved or not, Saudi has been linked or accused of having links with far more terrorist actions and groups than Somalia, Yemen or even Iran ever have. In fact, I don't hugely see why Iran is even on there considering that the Iranians have been confirmed by the Trump Administration themselves to be following their ends of the Nuclear agreement as well as every other pact the two nations have together. If anything, that may be another thing to do with the sour relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Well its not like Saudi Arabia was responsible for something really terrible like 9/11. Seriously the only reason they are not on the list is they have oil and are willing to share it with the US.

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Old December 5th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #13
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HAHAHA,obviously the terror monarchies of the gulf aren't included despite them being the biggest exporters of terrorists and radical ideologies.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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Originally Posted by ShineintheDark View Post
My issue with the ban doesn't come from who is on the list, but who is not. If this travel ban is truly to combat extremist elements, why would Saudi Arabia be excluded from this list? Whether directly involved or not, Saudi has been linked or accused of having links with far more terrorist actions and groups than Somalia, Yemen or even Iran ever have. In fact, I don't hugely see why Iran is even on there considering that the Iranians have been confirmed by the Trump Administration themselves to be following their ends of the Nuclear agreement as well as every other pact the two nations have together. If anything, that may be another thing to do with the sour relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
I think one of the main goals of the Trump State Department is to establish better relations with Saudi Arabia. Under Obama, the Saudis were mainly pushed aside, and the State Department was focused on Iranian relations. Trump appears to be doing the opposite, focusing on Saudi relations, like George Bush did, which would explain why they aren't on the list.

The unfortunate reality of global diplomacy, especially in the Middle East, is that you often have to make concessions to less-than-good nations, to pursue a goal. Trump's goal is cracking down on terrorism, which means appealing to the Arab nation with the powerful regional influence, and that has been historically sympathetic to US involvement in the region. Saudi Arabia obviously has its own problems, it's an authoritarian Islamic government which has been rumored to support certain terrorist groups, but you really don't have that many options in the Middle East for allies, so you take what you can get.

I think the statement that the US only likes Saudi Arabia because of it's oil is a bit of an ignorant statement. The US only gets 8% of our oil from Saudi Arabia. The US gets nearly that much from Mexico, and nearly 2x that from Canada (MattSmith trigger warning). Oil is a factor, but Saudi Arabia has also consistently been a military and diplomatic ally in the region. For instance, the Saudis helped expel the communists from the Middle East during the 70s and 80s, and existed in the events that lead up to the downfall of Saddam Hussein. In addition, Saudi Arabia holds significant power and influence over it's neighbors, religious and political, so having it one the US side does a lot for the region.

On a bit of a different tangent, Trump has shown that he is willing to work against the wishes of Saudi Arabia as well. Given the very recent announcement that the US embassy in Israel is moving to Jerusalem, it would be interesting to see how the various Arab nations react. Israel has been an issue that have consistently split the US and Saudi Arabia.

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Old December 6th, 2017, 09:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: Supreme Court OKs Trump's Travel Ban

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Originally Posted by PlasmaHam View Post
I think one of the main goals of the Trump State Department is to establish better relations with Saudi Arabia. Under Obama, the Saudis were mainly pushed aside, and the State Department was focused on Iranian relations. Trump appears to be doing the opposite, focusing on Saudi relations, like George Bush did, which would explain why they aren't on the list.

The unfortunate reality of global diplomacy, especially in the Middle East, is that you often have to make concessions to less-than-good nations, to pursue a goal. Trump's goal is cracking down on terrorism, which means appealing to the Arab nation with the powerful regional influence, and that has been historically sympathetic to US involvement in the region. Saudi Arabia obviously has its own problems, it's an authoritarian Islamic government which has been rumored to support certain terrorist groups, but you really don't have that many options in the Middle East for allies, so you take what you can get.

I think the statement that the US only likes Saudi Arabia because of it's oil is a bit of an ignorant statement. The US only gets 8% of our oil from Saudi Arabia. The US gets nearly that much from Mexico, and nearly 2x that from Canada (MattSmith trigger warning). Oil is a factor, but Saudi Arabia has also consistently been a military and diplomatic ally in the region. For instance, the Saudis helped expel the communists from the Middle East during the 70s and 80s, and existed in the events that lead up to the downfall of Saddam Hussein. In addition, Saudi Arabia holds significant power and influence over it's neighbors, religious and political, so having it one the US side does a lot for the region.

On a bit of a different tangent, Trump has shown that he is willing to work against the wishes of Saudi Arabia as well. Given the very recent announcement that the US embassy in Israel is moving to Jerusalem, it would be interesting to see how the various Arab nations react. Israel has been an issue that have consistently split the US and Saudi Arabia.
That policy in itself will bring its own major issues. The way Obama handled the balance between Israel and Saudi Arabia was, like you said, attempting to leave the two to their own devices as much as possible. By Trump attempting to appease and engage both, he will only end up having to pick a side on major issues (the whole Tel Aviv/Jerusalem embassy debacle being a perfect example) which will cause the other nation to grow more aggressive to them. When you have two major sides like Israel and Saudi at odds, there IS no playing both sides. As much flack as Obama got for his deals with Iran, he was never near as hospitable to them as he was to Saudi Arabia and that was how he avoided the same issue with those two nations.
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