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Old October 31st, 2017, 02:41 PM   #1
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Default Agnosticism

As an Agnostic, I believe that there's really no way to know if there's a higher power and afterlife or if we as humans don't have a higher power and there is no afterlife. Physically, there's no evidence of anything, and to me, while the Bible is interesting, I don't believe it. It teaches some good lessons...and some not so great ones. BUT, I believe that a lack of physical evidence doesn't mean there's no higher power. It's not all black and white like some atheists view the world. There could be so much more at play without anyone knowing anything. That's what I believe.

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Old October 31st, 2017, 03:19 PM   #2
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Good for you. I think agnosticism is actually a more intellectual viewpoint than atheism, despite what some may claim. Atheists, like most religions, already assume they know the truth, so they aren't open to other viewpoints. Agnosticism is not based on any assumed truth, so it encourages inquiry and truth seeking. Its an open-minded viewpoint, which in many respects is the best.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 03:38 PM   #3
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Good for you. I think agnosticism is actually a more intellectual viewpoint than atheism, despite what some may claim. Atheists, like most religions, already assume they know the truth, so they aren't open to other viewpoints. Agnosticism is not based on any assumed truth, so it encourages inquiry and truth seeking. Its an open-minded viewpoint, which in many respects is the best.
Unfortunately the bit about atheism is kinda true... Agnosticism does allow people to be more open minded cuz they’re more on the fence of it.

I didn’t realize though that atheism was a religion? I thought the lack of religion made it not one?

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Old October 31st, 2017, 07:15 PM   #4
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I didnít realize though that atheism was a religion? I thought the lack of religion made it not one?
I think it makes sense to call the lack of belief a belief in and of itself. Believing there's nothing to believe is still believing something. Maybe it's not a traditional or conventional definition, though. Then again, I'm no expert on religion

But yeah, in terms of spiritual belief, I lie heavily on the side of agnosticism for the reasons outlined. I believe that truth of this nature is heavily subject to the individual. It's a really comforting thought, actually.

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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Agnosticism

Agnostics and Atheists are fighting the same fight, its just the way they approach it that is different, one side is it is impossible to know for sure, I am at none of the above, but I am not ruling out anything. The other side is until you show me evidence you are wrong.

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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Agnosticism

I agree with most of this. I don't think the presumption of knowing is inherent to being religious or atheist. You can believe something without being sure, it's a matter of distinguishing fact from opinion.

I believe that there is no higher power, but I'm totally open to the idea of being wrong on that one. I think every religious text is wrong, particularly in regards to morality, and prophets. To me, it's down to either deism or atheism.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Agnosticism

I donít believe in agnosticism myself, but I can understand what youíre saying. Itís hard to believe stuff when when all you have is hearsay. And thatís pretty much all we have in religions. We choose to either follow our religion or not. I donít even think itís something we choose to do, itís just who we are. Like the color or our skin, our gender, or sexual orientation. Not trying to change the topic, but just as an example is all.

We can be taught all about religion,and we either buy in or not. Personally, I have a hard time believing some ďfactsĒ of my own religion. Just donít make sense to me.

That being said, I do believe in a higher power, a creator, and I call that power God. But thatís me.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 09:25 PM   #8
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I didnít realize though that atheism was a religion? I thought the lack of religion made it not one?
I wasn't implying atheism was religion in my post, if that is why you ask this question. Simply trying to say that it often requires faith at the level of religion. But to answer your question, atheism being a religion depends on your definition of religion. If religion means belief in some divine being(s), then no, it is not a religion. If religion means faith in something you cannot prove, then yes, atheism is a religion.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 08:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: Agnosticism

We must also bare in mind that agnosticism is not a standpoint on its own. Even the term itself means 'lack of knowledge'. Therefore, the agnostic person must have some sort of initial standpoint. For example, a person can be a theistic agnostic (doesn't know if there is a God but believes there may be) or an atheistic agnostic (doesn't believe in a God but knows you cannot be sure). In that way, agnostics aren't really an end of the scale to themselves and more another dimension to belief and knowledge.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 09:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Agnosticism

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I wasn't implying atheism was religion in my post, if that is why you ask this question. Simply trying to say that it often requires faith at the level of religion. But to answer your question, atheism being a religion depends on your definition of religion. If religion means belief in some divine being(s), then no, it is not a religion. If religion means faith in something you cannot prove, then yes, atheism is a religion.
Atheism is a religion in a sense, the devotion to a belief is the definition of religion. If you read Richard Dawkins' books you would say that his religion is Atheism because he has such a strong belief in "not believing". Religion with a capital "R", however, usually refers to monotheistic religions - such as Christianity, Islam & Judaism.

Basically, religion is such a broad term that encompasses so many things. There's monotheistic, nontheistic, polytheistic, etc.


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Old November 14th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Agnosticism

Theism & Gnosticism are asking two different questions.

Theism - Do you believe?

Theist: One who believes in a god.
Atheist: One who does not believe in a god

Gnosticism - Can we know?

Gnostic: "We can be certain there is (or is not) a god"
Agnostic: "We can never know whether or not there is a god"

I am an Agnostic Atheist.
I don't believe we can ever know if there is a god, and I choose not to believe in one because there is no clear logical evidence to support it.

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Old November 14th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: Agnosticism

I've always felt that true atheists defend their certainty in non believing god just as true believers defend their religion. Therefore, I defined atheism as a religion in my personal dictionary years ago.

On the other hand, someone is inevitable agnostic if one has no deeper beliefs. This said, I didn't find a suitable definition for that yet.





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Old November 15th, 2017, 06:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Agnosticism

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I've always felt that true atheists defend their certainty in non believing god just as true believers defend their religion. Therefore, I defined atheism as a religion in my personal dictionary years ago.
Atheist simply means "I do not believe in a god".
It does NOT mean "I am 100% certain there is no god."

The definition of religion is: "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

That's why someone who is an atheist is called "non-religious".
Atheism is not a religion, it is simply a lack of belief in god.

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On the other hand, someone is inevitable agnostic if one has no deeper beliefs. This said, I didn't find a suitable definition for that yet.
Refer to my post above yours. Theism & Gnosticism are two different things.

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Old November 16th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Agnosticism

After reading this thread again, Iím really confused about the difference. Atheism and Agnostism seem virtually the same to me, but there different how?
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Old November 16th, 2017, 10:37 PM   #15
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After reading this thread again, Iím really confused about the difference. Atheism and Agnostism seem virtually the same to me, but there different how?
Basically atheists donít believe in god nor follow a religion, while agnostics are more on the fence of believing in god but still do not follow a religion. Itís just the belief bit thatís different

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Old November 16th, 2017, 11:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Agnosticism

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Originally Posted by maddogmj77 View Post
Atheist simply means "I do not believe in a god".
It does NOT mean "I am 100% certain there is no god."

The definition of religion is: "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

That's why someone who is an atheist is called "non-religious".
Atheism is not a religion, it is simply a lack of belief in god.


Refer to my post above yours. Theism & Gnosticism are two different things.
This isn't exactly true but commonly believed. Religion means what you believe and where you go for for help. So Atheism is a religion. Most atheists claim they don't believe in God because they can't see Him. I have never seen my brain but I know I have one. Nobody has ever seen oxygen but we all know it exists. People who believe in God know He exists because we've experienced His presence in ways a nonbeliever would ignore but can't explain.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Agnosticism

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After reading this thread again, I’m really confused about the difference. Atheism and Agnostism seem virtually the same to me, but there different how?
(A)Theism is about personal belief (or disbelief) in a god.

(A)Gnosticism is about whether or not we can know for certain there is a god (or not).

Refer to my reply: Post #11

You could be an Agnostic Theist, meaning you're not certain whether or not there is a god, but you personally believe in one anyways.
You could be a Gnostic Theist, meaning you are 100% certain there is a god.
You could be an Agnostic Atheist, meaning you're not certain whether or not there is a god, but you personally don't believe in one.
You could be a Gnostic Atheist, meaning you are 100% certain there is no god.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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This isn't exactly true but commonly believed. Religion means what you believe and where you go for for help. So Atheism is a religion.
Actually, no, that is completely false. Have you ever seen an Atheist call for a lack of gods to help them when they're in distress?
"Oh man, these finals are so hard, no-god help me!"
That's ridiculous.

And your definition is wrong, google the definition of "religion".

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Most atheists claim they don't believe in God because they can't see Him. I have never seen my brain but I know I have one. Nobody has ever seen oxygen but we all know it exists.
I am an atheist because we do not have evidence for the existence of any god.

I can not see my brain, but if you take scans of my head, or even cut it open, you can see it. That's evidence.

I can not see oxygen, but we can test for it's existence using rust oxidization. That's evidence

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People who believe in God know He exists because we've experienced His presence in ways a nonbeliever would ignore but can't explain.
Someone saying they "feel" god is not evidence. Anecdotes are also not evidence.

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Old November 17th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Agnosticism

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmj77 View Post
(A)Theism is about personal belief (or disbelief) in a god.

(A)Gnosticism is about whether or not we can know for certain there is a god (or not).

Refer to my reply: Post #11

You could be an Agnostic Theist, meaning you're not certain whether or not there is a god, but you personally believe in one anyways.
You could be a Gnostic Theist, meaning you are 100% certain there is a god.
You could be an Agnostic Atheist, meaning you're not certain whether or not there is a god, but you personally don't believe in one.
You could be a Gnostic Atheist, meaning you are 100% certain there is no god.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Actually, no, that is completely false. Have you ever seen an Atheist call for a lack of gods to help them when they're in distress?
"Oh man, these finals are so hard, no-god help me!"
That's ridiculous.

And your definition is wrong, google the definition of "religion".


I am an atheist because we do not have evidence for the existence of any god.

I can not see my brain, but if you take scans of my head, or even cut it open, you can see it. That's evidence.

I can not see oxygen, but we can test for it's existence using rust oxidization. That's evidence


Someone saying they "feel" god is not evidence. Anecdotes are also not evidence.
So itís the difference of knowing or believing?

And Iím not sure but I feel like someone should say something about what this forum is about. I might misunderstand something but if we start getting into statement to others posts about whatís right or wrong in someoneís belief in religion....idk...Iíll stop there
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Old November 18th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #19
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So it’s the difference of knowing or believing?
Basically, yea. They're two separate things.

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And I’m not sure but I feel like someone should say something about what this forum is about. I might misunderstand something but if we start getting into statement to others posts about what’s right or wrong in someone’s belief in religion....idk...I’ll stop there
Well, I was mainly just responding to him saying that "Athiesm is a religion", and giving a blatantly wrong definition of religion.

And then he said that "most atheists don't believe because they don't see god", when it's actually because of a lack of any evidence at all.

He goes on using that statement in order to make an analogy about how we can't "see oxygen", but we "know" it's there.
In an act of False Equivalence, he then applied that same logic to god.
He started from a faulty premise, and used faulty logic, so that leaves you with a faulty conclusion.

I'm not trying to get into an argument with anyone over their belief in god.
I was only pointing out someone giving false definitions, making false assumptions, & using faulty logic.

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Old November 23rd, 2017, 07:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Agnosticism

There is enough evidence that's been consistent enough with after-death connections, or near death experiences, reincarnation, or encounters with angels and or demons/ghost hauntings and alien abductions that prove the concept of a soul and a conscious existence separate from a human brain.


In fact that's how ii'll define a soul or spirit: and entity that can have and act upon rational thought despite not having the organ of a brain.


^ atheists don't believe that, and I think enough research into the supernatural phenomena does disprove them at this point in time.


--

Also if any of you have older family or cousins who have gone to medical school to be a doctor, you should ask them if medical school ever addresses the concept of "miracle/sudden healings", where patients suddenly recover from miraculous terminal illness diagnosis without rational explanation.

This phenomena needs explaining and shouldn't be cherry-picked ignored.
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