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#1 | |
VT Lover
![]() Name: matt
Join Date: March 8, 2014
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What happen Sunday was just horrible, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy condemned the violence on both sides (Just a joke). If this had happened in the Middle East people throughout the western world would be calling the US to overthrow the leader.
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Straight Canadian boy feel free to pm me will talk about anything Last edited by mattsmith48; October 3rd, 2017 at 06:26 PM. |
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#2 | |
Nice Poster
![]() Name: Magnus
Join Date: April 11, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
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As weird as this probably sounds, the best solution to this may actually be an official, government-approved referendum to ensure real results of whether the people of Catalonia truly want independence. If they really do, then the Spanish government won't hugely have much choice but to give in to those demands to a certain degree as they were elected to carry out the wishes of the people.
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#3 | |
Awesome Poster
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Location: North Carolina
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#4 | |
VT Lover
![]() Name: matt
Join Date: March 8, 2014
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Straight Canadian boy feel free to pm me will talk about anything |
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#5 |
Live To Tell
![]() Join Date: August 22, 2013
Age: 21
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Lol, this is so wrong, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.
![]() ![]() ![]() ~Mike was here~
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#6 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: October 20, 2015
Location: Lebanon
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Are you for the independence of Catalonia or against it? Just wondering cause it'd be interesting to hear what a person from the region has to say.
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#7 |
VT Lover
![]() Name: matt
Join Date: March 8, 2014
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Tell me where am I wrong?
Straight Canadian boy feel free to pm me will talk about anything |
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#8 | |
Live To Tell
![]() Join Date: August 22, 2013
Age: 21
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Also, let me make clear that I don't agree with the Spanish government's reaction to the Independence movement. The police violence etc may pretty much increase the number of independentists and fuel their passion of becoming independent. Spain's economy is not a train wreck (anymore), it has been showing signs of steady recovery for some years now (since 2014). Catalonia is definitely not the only economically healthy part of the country, Community of Madrid has almost the same GDP and much higher GDP per capita. Many other provinces have higher economy growth rates and less unemployment than Catalonia. They are not paying for everyone else (not sure where you got this idea from) and economy reasons are not the only reason why the Spanish government does not want them to leave, they pretty much have absolutely no incentive to do so, nor anything to win from it. ![]() ![]() ![]() ~Mike was here~
Last edited by Living For Love; October 4th, 2017 at 04:43 PM. |
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#9 |
Nice Poster
![]() Name: Magnus
Join Date: April 11, 2017
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The conflict takes fairly deep roots int he Spanish Civil War. Before then, the people of Catalonia and several other provinces lived in relative peace with their own limited dissolution of power to govern themselves how they saw fit. That changed under Franco who came down hard and restricted them heavily once again. In a way, the independence movement has basis in the fact that Catalonia has never really felt a part of the main, nationalist Spain and will continue to feel divided from it. Think of it similar to Scotland in the UK. They never really wanted to be part and so that remained and fostered in the independence movement it currently has in the SNP and nationalists there.
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#10 |
Good Life
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I suppose as I am Spanish I can answer you guys' questions. New data shows that after this, companies are lraving the country and people in favour of the hypothetical independence are retracting themselves. Maybe the other side was right from day one?
Ask away I guess |
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#11 |
Kebab Remover
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Honestly, I am against it. Also the reasons the pro-independent parties listed are mostly fallacies etc. Like "we give x in taxes to the central government" but forget to mention they get that x back through government investment etc. We are going to have a smilar stuation here in Vojvodina too. Also even if they get a bit less in money from the government than they give, they should not be all pissy about it. I mean, look at Germany. The richer parts are investing into the poorer former East Germany. Economic homogenization is a lot better than having wealth concentrated in one region.
Male/Serb nationalist/Centrist Authoritarian /Straight/Heliphobe VT's most likely to become president of 2017 VT's leading expert on Slavology and anything Slavic-related, if you have some questions of Slavic nature, just send me a VM or a PM
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#12 | |
Live To Tell
![]() Join Date: August 22, 2013
Age: 21
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![]() ![]() ![]() ~Mike was here~
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#13 | |
Good Life
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The for bit: Everyone has their own right to decide their future and choose based on whatever they deem appropriate. Freedom is there for a reason and this is an example of that. The against bit: "Your freedom ends where mine begins". The law was put in place for a reason. As such, it should be respected at all time, and if it's outdated like these gents are saying, all should sit together and agree on something better like it was done back in the 70's. My opinion bit: I am totally against this current example of independence. They have their rights to be free yet need to abide by the law. Law states a referendum should be held and we'd need to have all the affected parties vote - which we haven't. They come from this philosophy in which after independence they'd still play the spanish league, "stop paying for the rest of Spain (link to counterproof)", "remain in the European Union (link to counterproof)", and much more propagandistical nonsense which sadly their people have been led to believe. With all that proven, seeing how CAT does not contribute heavily to ES like they're saying they do, seeing how they've gotten all the help from the gov ever since the democracy has been in place (just like the Vasque Country), and so on, let me kindly ask them: Are they dumb? Ever since they pseudo-declared they'd do whatever they frigging pleased, this happened (link): ![]() So let us think for a while. Will well known, worldwide economists and companies be wrong, or will a team of a hundred at most be wrong? I certainly, judging by the data we have available, have made my mind already. Forgot something: Indoctrination. We've seen (me personally, lived in BCN for well over 6 years) how they do it, and how much has it increased now. "In the playground we talk Catalan": ![]() ![]() I could go on and on about this but I might as well let people ask then clarify. I won't get into the police side of things because that's for another thread. Also, this is worth a read. |
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#14 |
Awesome Poster
![]() Join Date: July 7, 2016
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So essentially, in a nutshell, you believe that the Catalonians have a right to legally secede but that this referendum was not the proper way to do it, and that an independent Catalonia would not be the 'paradise' nation Catalonians leaders are promising. Is that what you are basically saying? Because if so I will agree with that opinion.
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#15 | |
Good Life
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#16 | |
Kebab Remover
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Also that playground picture... What the hell? I mean instilling national concioussness into a people is okay, but this is just wrong because it is exclusionist, not inclusionist. Male/Serb nationalist/Centrist Authoritarian /Straight/Heliphobe VT's most likely to become president of 2017 VT's leading expert on Slavology and anything Slavic-related, if you have some questions of Slavic nature, just send me a VM or a PM
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