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Old October 9th, 2017, 01:40 AM   #141
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Name: Nicholas
Join Date: August 8, 2016
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Default Re: Trump Administration & DOJ sides with Cake-baker who refused to make gay wedding

If you own a business, you're offering your service/product to somebody. Nobody is entitled to have you do business with them. If you're an employee of a company then it's different because you're representing the entire business, but business owners are offering their services. They have no moral obligation to do business with you or anyone. They have chosen to offer their services in exchange for payment. You're not entitled to their services.

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Old October 9th, 2017, 10:40 AM   #142
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Default Re: Trump Administration & DOJ sides with Cake-baker who refused to make gay wedding

Originally Posted by maddogmj77 View Post
Here's a person talking to LGBT-people in rural areas.
88% (44/50) of them said they've been the victim of a hate-crime.
That is a ridiculously high number. That alone should answer your question
This is yet another example of unsupported 'hate crime' statistics by the Left. There are people who interpret "looking at me the wrong way" as a hate crime. In Britain (where this study was done) a man was convicted of a hate crime for singing "Kung fu Fighting" for crying out loud! There is no definition here of what constitutes a hate crime, and added to the fact that your resource doesn't even source a direct link to the study, there is no reason for me to believe that there is actual oppression anywhere near that rate you claim.

It's extremely difficult to calculate statistics in a situation like this.
When LGBT-people in rural areas hide themselves, it's much harder for hate-crimes to occur.
So, you admit that it is extremely difficult to calculate actual hate crime statistics, yet you just spouted out some unsupported statistics. You serious expect me to believe any of this?

It's hard to put into a statistic. But, rural areas & isolation tend to lead to less exposure, and less tolerance. E.G. Racism, Homophobia, etc.
So, I should just trust your word on this? Statisticians are incapable of actually figuring this out, but I am expected to believe you when you claim there is mass oppression at work?

Originally Posted by maddogmj77 View Post
No, it's not discriminating because everyone will be equal.
Question: Do you value liberty or equality more?

Just because you are making people equal, does not mean you aren't discriminating. Affirmative Action policies for instance are clearly discriminatory towards whites and Asians. They may make black students "more equal" to their white peers, but it is nevertheless still discrimination. Companies employing women just so they can virtue signal about having a sizable female staff may be making them "more equal" with their male counterparts, but it is nevertheless discriminating against more trained males.

You've turned this into a minority vs. majority issue when it really isn't. It's a human & consumer issue. Nobody is allowed to discriminate against anyone.
You are the one ranting about majority oppression of the minority, don't try to play it off to someone else. And yes, you are finally on topic, this an issue of a human supplier and a human consumer. And no human should be allowed to force another human to do something they find morally reprehensible. No human, black or white, female or male, consumer or supplier, should be granted more God-given rights than another, nor be allowed to infringe on the God-given rights of others.

...Nobody is allowed to discriminate against anyone.
Ah, so you are legislating morality. It's funny how that is suddenly acceptable when Lefties are doing it.

My law will change things for the better, because there's a 99% chance the store will comply with the law in order to not lose it's business.
Your 'law' will force individuals to perform acts they find morally reprehensible, because someone else was too entitled and lazy to drive a few extra miles to get a cake decorated. How is infringing on the liberties of individuals just so others don't get their feeling hurts going to change things for the better? How does this reflect liberty, the hallmark of America?

Even if it didn't, then the 900 people would now be equal with the 100 as the discriminatory hypermarket is gone.
That opens the doors to new stores to set up without a competition, and can start a healthy competition in this new gap, without discriminating.

So the end result would be more options/stores for everyone. And everyone will be able to shop equally.
Hm... I don't even want to try to respond to this. Your law will hurt the economy, not grow it. Growth comes from competition, inequality spurs competition, not the other way around.

I believe it is worth it overall, to protect the minority, and to push back oppression as much as possible.
This was the exact same mentality that pushed the Reconstruction Era. And you know what happened? People got tired of the government and law pushing other people's rights over their own. Minorities were given special privileges, given things at the expense of others. The people in power believed that this forced equality and anti-discrimination legislation would reduce discrimination. But guess what? As a result of the government valuing the rights of the minority over the majority, people got outraged, and that outrage lead to the worse era of discrimination and racism we have ever known, when blacks when routinely lynched and anti-immigrant sentiment grew wild. All this, was because the government felt like forcing 'equality' was the best route. If the government didn't get involved, I have a good feeling that race relations would be far better today than they are currently.

In short, in a free society, there is clearly only one answer to this question. No individual or business should be forced to provide services to another individual or business without consent. And I'm not just making that statement up out of thin air. It has long been generally accepted that capitalism is only ethical if there is a consensual exchange between individuals. Not forced, certainly not forced by government gunpoint.

EDIT: Just saw this.
You feel like infringing on the rights of this gay man? Because I am sure the KKK will be backing you up as you do it. Nothing quite as good as forcing a gay man into poverty, especially when you can do it legally!

Last edited by Voice_Of_Unreason; October 9th, 2017 at 10:47 AM.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #143
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Default Re: Trump Administration & DOJ sides with Cake-baker who refused to make gay wedding

I think that cafe owner shouldn't have kicked them out unless they were being a disturbance to other guests.

I strongly believe a business needs a strong dissociation between it's owner's personal beliefs and the business's goal's. The business's goals should be textbook business concerns only, like accounting, quality of product and service, accounting, profitability and safety.

Anything outside of those concerns, for a business, is extraneous and makes no sense even from a religious or counter-religious point of view.

In Revelation it says that all the former things of the previous world passes away, and I take that to mean all systems of society like monetary systems. Meaning there is no business that gets access to the pearly gates anyway, it's an entity without a soul.

And remember the premise behind many faiths: you want a good afterlife not a bad one.

Only individuals are based on their own book's works.

Last edited by Uniquemind; October 12th, 2017 at 04:11 PM.
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