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Old July 30th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #21
antimonic
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

Iamsam, you obviously follow the medical model of psychology, whereas dig it deeper follows a more psychological model, yes some cases have reported that ocd was caused by neurochemical imbalances etc, however as far as it goes you are the one who has not provided any empirical evidence, and to be perfectly honest to state that the sources dig it deeper has gotten her information from is for any reason "incorrect" or invalid, is very ignorant. compare your position with theirs, you are a 15 year old, the researchers are not lol they have a considerably larger basis of knowledge in their subject area then you do and most importantly, they follow a different model then you do (some do).

yes sampling size/ methods are important, though you have no reason to believe that they were not appropriate from what dig it deeper has given you. and why would the possible limitations of these studies be present in the ones that support psychological theories and not medical? they wouldn’t, both fields are scientific and follow scientific approaches to investigating this anxiety disorder. like many things there are a number of causes, biochemical factors are not enough as they are too reductionist and tend to ignore other factors and simple psychological factors. psychological models also are limited as they are more holistic approaches and may be looking too broadly when the cause is smaller, and also ignore biological factors.

you also need to take it easy, dig it deeper doesnt seem to be starting an argument you are the one who seems to be very challenging and trying to force your opinions (which YOU seem to have confused with facts from what i have read) down her throat. its a small debate, neither of you is wrong, not unless one of you states that their side is the correct and the other isnt.

Was just wondering, how would a follower of the medical model explain cases where the patient has the symptoms of ocd but has no imbalances or abnormal neurotransmitter activity/levels? just wondering
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Old July 30th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antimonic View Post
Iamsam, you obviously follow the medical model of psychology, whereas dig it deeper follows a more psychological model, yes some cases have reported that ocd was caused by neurochemical imbalances etc, however as far as it goes you are the one who has not provided any empirical evidence, and to be perfectly honest to state that the sources dig it deeper has gotten her information from is for any reason "incorrect" or invalid, is very ignorant. compare your position with theirs, you are a 15 year old, the researchers are not lol they have a considerably larger basis of knowledge in their subject area then you do and most importantly, they follow a different model then you do (some do).

yes sampling size/ methods are important, though you have no reason to believe that they were not appropriate from what dig it deeper has given you. and why would the possible limitations of these studies be present in the ones that support psychological theories and not medical? they wouldn’t, both fields are scientific and follow scientific approaches to investigating this anxiety disorder. like many things there are a number of causes, biochemical factors are not enough as they are too reductionist and tend to ignore other factors and simple psychological factors. psychological models also are limited as they are more holistic approaches and may be looking too broadly when the cause is smaller, and also ignore biological factors.

you also need to take it easy, dig it deeper doesnt seem to be starting an argument you are the one who seems to be very challenging and trying to force your opinions (which YOU seem to have confused with facts from what i have read) down her throat. its a small debate, neither of you is wrong, not unless one of you states that their side is the correct and the other isnt.

Was just wondering, how would a follower of the medical model explain cases where the patient has the symptoms of ocd but has no imbalances or abnormal neurotransmitter activity/levels? just wondering

Nice try, registering with another account here. Living up to your nick of digging yourself in deeper. Methinks your issue is that you cannot tolerate a difference of opinion. Smells like narcissism to me.

I don't think that you're following a 'Psychological model', I think the model you accept fits more neatly into your own need to see yourself a certain way. My way of understanding this is based on a more thorough understanding of OCD, including having spoken to those who treat it and teach about it at the Uni level, as well as my own studies.

The studies you quote might have found the results you favor, which is perhaps why you're quoting them in the first place. However, I cannot comment on the methdology used, which is really crucial. How they identified the patient samples, what the criteria for OCD was, is important, what instruments were used to determine this? What instruments/criteria were used to determine the treatment outcomes? Was the severity of OCD taken into consideration or even identified in determining which treatment group the sample should be in? How about the statistical analyses? Which were used, and why? Looking only at the conclusion and not the methodology missed the important opportunity to actually judge the worth of the entire study, regardless of one's personal predisposition .

lastly, it is worthwhile to discuss the results of any clinical study with the practitioners in the field who work with the issue at hand on a daily basis. Most good studies are not only 'reliable', producing the same results in repeated study, but also practical, that the result should be the same in clinical trial. As I said before, you've got the first half here, looking up the studies that support your opinions, now go find some practitioners in the real world and see if their clinical experience replicates these studies. I'm not dismissing the veracity of your claims about CBT, I am saying that it's more nuanced, that outcome is more influenced by severity of OCD.

Again, those professionals who work with OCD, esp. adolescent onset, will tell you that in the moderate to severe category, properly diagnosed!, medication provides the best outcome. Therapy is a good adjunct, but the current thinking is that moderate to severe OCD is a biochemical issue.

It's unfortunate your own preconceived ideas (or personality issues) prevent you from accepting this, which is why I suggest that you find some qualified professionals to ask.

Sometimes, there's no substitute for hands on clinical experience.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 03:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

ok firstly, my name is abs, im new here and I am not dig it deeper loll if you don’t believe me you can go on www.enotalone.com and see my profile, im not someone else lol seriously, that’s a lil cocky but anyway.

you really need not tell me about how to carry out a scientific experiment, for your information I am a Cambridge undergraduate studying psychology in my first year, I have spent near to 9 months working with clinical psychologists and counselling psychologists and before that psychiatrists in which my father has now retired from a job at the royal college of psychiatrists, so I understood how the three fields differed and have made my choice with psychology. See now to say that evidence is being looked for by dig to support HER findings is sort of what you asked her to do? lol seriously, you are very cocky for someone who isn’t even at A level stage (high school if your in America) yeah fine you’ve spoken to some qualified practitioners but by the sounds of it only psychiatrists or maybe clinical psychologists as well, who both follow medical models believing psychological illnesses to have a biological basis. to think that I haven’t spoken to or questioned incredibly about anxiety disorders such as ocd and phobias (phobias of which btw when treatment undergoes a behavioural model results in roughly 90% success rate as opposed to medication) is a gross understatement, im sorry but I have studied these disorders and have a vast knowledge in my subject area, and not to be big headed but I have to have to have gotten into Cambridge lol and severity of ocd yes has an effect and some treatments are only necessary depending on the severity, needless to say, I did not say medication is not effective, im arguing the point that no it does not have a purely biological basis, which you keep saying. There have been a number of cases where there has been normal neurotransmitter and other biochemical balances and activity (measured using a vast array of clinical methods not by the psychologists but by qualified practitioners before you say). Which you have still yet to answer

and of course your supposed to evaluate research studies, there is no flawless research study, and to think that psychology studies are any more flawed then medical is purely ignorant, both are scientific so follow very similar methodologies, similar methods of sampling, objectifying etc. . . and simply put, had the study been very badly done and suffers huge limitations to the point where they have committed type one or even type two errors (you can Google them if you don’t know what they are ) then they would not be published into any decent journals, which by the looks of it, dig it deeper has gotten her sources from the very journals published at my university and some other very highly respectable universities.

Now to say that dig does not follow a more psychological model again is very delusional! ofc she follows a psychological model, she is saying that it does not have a biological basis and that there is EMPIRICAL evidence (which Im sorry, but she has provided, regardless of what you think) to support her claim, just like you asked her to do, and now you criticise that she looked for evidence to support her claim? Seriously, reach any further and your arm will stretch lol

And you tell her to find qualified professionals to ask? Ok so you have asked them yes, but so far I am more "qualified" then you in studying psychological disorders, and having received near enough to straight 85% marks on a number of reports, those of which include reports on anxiety disorders, I think I would know what I am talking about. Having just asked my father, which is what you told her to do, now I am doing it lol, a fully qualified and still practising psychiatrist, has also agreed that of course it does not have a purely biological basis, no psychological disorder has a purely biological basis, otherwise other methods of treatment would be obsolete! lol if you would like I can also call the doctor I spent my last work experience with since I built a good rapport with them? im sure they will support these claims hehe

seriously, you need to stop being very narrow minded, simply put, there are studies that show that ocd does not have a purely biological basis and psychological treatments have proven very effective on severely anxious participants, and there have also been studies to show the same but for medical treatments. So to say that it has a purely biological (medical) basis, wouldn’t be answering why psychological treatments work?

btw, your level of study seems impressive, but seriously, I can safely say with my background I have had significantly larger experience in the field of psychology, am more qualified then you and have also near enough hassled qualified practitioners in the field on anxiety disorders in general and then specifically ocd and phobias (as required by me previous A level exam board) including my father.

now please answer my question, how would you, an obvious biological reductionist, explain cases where the sufferer does not have a serotonin deficiency, high levels of dopamine, no medical background of the disorder, no abnormalities in neurotransmitter levels shown by PET scans and shows no increased activity in the frontal lobe when showing active symptoms? And what would a psychiatrist do? You can go ask your qualified practitioners 

Btw, even IF it had a biological basis, medication treats symptoms yes, but not the cause, MEDICAL STUDIES have shown a return of the symptoms with respect to a halt of the prescribed medication.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 12:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

It's something that developes over time.
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Old August 1st, 2008, 05:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by foof1 View Post
It's something that developes over time.
yup finally someone with some common sense!
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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

im 12 and just last year in november i started feeling weird i had read something on gay and now even though a month ago i had a feeling that i liked a girl i knew since i was six and dismissed it so i didnt ruin the friendship and i also liked a girl that helped me alot back in 5th grade but im shy and didnt say i liked her because im the dork in the class but now im scared im not going to be able to have my dream of a wife and kids of mine and her dna do u think i have ocd i even was told by my mom that a girl that i know likes me that i didnt know liked me but even though i know she likes me and i kinda like her i still cant get this thought out of my head
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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

Nope, OCD is something that results from built up anxiety. It is in fact not really a disorder by itself but a symptom of anxiety disorder.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: are you born with ocd?

Jeez, 4 year bump. Please don't bump old threads...

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