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Old October 12th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #41
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [[chickaroo92]] View Post
Guys continuing to bicker about it won't do anything, other than cause a huge argument. The question has been answered, whether if the answer is fair or not, it's still the answer. There's no point in continuing to bump this thread.... someone close it please
You realize that entire post just contradicts everything you just said?

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Old October 12th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [[chickaroo92]] View Post
Guys continuing to bicker about it won't do anything, other than cause a huge argument. The question has been answered, whether if the answer is fair or not, it's still the answer. There's no point in continuing to bump this thread.... someone close it please
As I said, I'm not bickering, nor even really asking the admins to change something. I'm asking to understand, and to perhaps point out things the admins had not considered. I've never run a forum, so I'm trying to see what I'm not considering too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
You realize that entire post just contradicts everything you just said?
That made me lolz.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:21 AM   #43
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

*bump*

Ant, I'm really interested to see what you, or any of the other admins have to contribute. I'm curious to see the part of the problem I'm missing.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 11:56 AM   #44
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

What exactly is unclear?

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Old October 18th, 2010, 12:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
*bump*

Ant, I'm really interested to see what you, or any of the other admins have to contribute. I'm curious to see the part of the problem I'm missing.
The fact of the matter is this; one body to an account. It really doesn't matter. Rules are rules, there are no exemptions or way around it. There's even a current announcement stating so. Even with MPD there is no way around it. I don't see the point in trying have a shortcut around the rules that have are in place.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
Mea culpa. I meant conjoined twins. I misspoke. They share a body, yet are clearly not the same person. Would they be prohibited from having separate accounts?

Speaking as someone who has studied DID from a professional viewpoint, I can't see the reasonable justification for it. Look at the situation here one person did not have the other's account password. Does that mean that person is prohibited from posting? Also, it means the admins have to make a judgment call as to who's the alter and who's the main, if the main even posts here. In either case, how do you decide who's account gets merged into who's?

I'm just saying that a body does not define a man. It is his thoughts and actions. His spirit, his anima that defines him.



Just a disclaimer: I'm not arguing it, just looking to understand, and maybe stir a little discussion. Never bad to get people thinking about mental health and the stigmas associated there in.
This. The issues I raised here are what's unclear to me. Or, I should say, how the policy accounts for these issues is what's unclear to me.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #47
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

I'll respond to a few of your questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
Mea culpa. I meant conjoined twins. I misspoke. They share a body, yet are clearly not the same person. Would they be prohibited from having separate accounts?
Conjoined twins largely do not share the same body except for a few shared structures. Therefore we would treat them like any other twins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
Speaking as someone who has studied DID from a professional viewpoint, I can't see the reasonable justification for it. Look at the situation here one person did not have the other's account password. Does that mean that person is prohibited from posting? Also, it means the admins have to make a judgment call as to who's the alter and who's the main, if the main even posts here. In either case, how do you decide who's account gets merged into who's?
Since at least one of the personalities is cognizant of the challenges inherent in this situation (cognizant enough to create this thread), that personality could leave its login information for the other and a merge could be accomplished that way. I would think we would largely leave the details (which account should go and which should stay) to the user. If the personalities can't agree, we'd have to decide for them. Not a great situation, but c'est la vie.

The reason for this policy is that we have had far, far too many multiple accounts on this site in the last year. While DID is a legitimate reason for having created two accounts, the potential for abuse certainly exists, since we can in no way expect to possibly verify whether or not someone actually has the disorder. Thus, on an ongoing basis the most consistent and easily enforceable rule is one account to one body. Is it slightly unfair? Maybe. But that's how it goes, in the interests of the forum.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #48
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13
Mea culpa. I meant conjoined twins. I misspoke. They share a body, yet are clearly not the same person. Would they be prohibited from having separate accounts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Announcement
Each member is allowed one account and no more than that.
This is what is stated from the announcement. This is to be strictly adhered by. There are no exceptions. Multiple accounts are not allowed regardless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13
Speaking as someone who has studied DID from a professional viewpoint, I can't see the reasonable justification for it.
Rules here state otherwise. There have been too many multiple accounts this year for anyone to be exempt even if they were twins or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13
Look at the situation here one person did not have the other's account password. Does that mean that person is prohibited from posting? Also, it means the admins have to make a judgment call as to who's the alter and who's the main, if the main even posts here. In either case, how do you decide who's account gets merged into who's?
That is not the case with this. The person has a multiple personality disorder and there is no justifiable cause for a multiple accounts seeing as they are the same body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13
I'm just saying that a body does not define a man. It is his thoughts and actions. His spirit, his anima that defines him.
So one account bends the rules, then what happens with the others? That have this problem? Should they be allowed to have 2 accounts too?

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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Would two accounts by two people in the same house automatically be banned? If not, I don't see how the potential for multiple accounts is that much greater.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose View Post
This is what is stated from the announcement. This is to be strictly adhered by. There are no exceptions. Multiple accounts are not allowed regardless.


Rules here state otherwise. There have been too many multiple accounts this year for anyone to be exempt even if they were twins or not.
My point is that two different personalities are not the same member. As such, it's permissible under your own rules.

Quote:
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That is not the case with this. The person has a multiple personality disorder and there is no justifiable cause for a multiple accounts seeing as they are the same body.
Yes, there is, as I have outlined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose View Post
So one account bends the rules, then what happens with the others? That have this problem? Should they be allowed to have 2 accounts too?
Not bending the rules. Just not discriminating against two different people because they share a body.

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Last edited by Sith Lord 13; October 18th, 2010 at 01:42 PM.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
Would two accounts by two people in the same house automatically be banned? If not, I don't see how the potential for multiple accounts is that much greater.
If noticed, it would raise questions and would likely require some kind of substantiation that the accounts were different people. The point is that with DID that substantiation is impossible to provide, because in every way that is recognizable outside of one's own head, two personalities of a person with DID are the same person.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

Quote:
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If noticed, it would raise questions and would likely require some kind of substantiation that the accounts were different people. The point is that with DID that substantiation is impossible to provide, because in every way that is recognizable outside of one's own head, two personalities of a person with DID are the same person.
It's observable in behavior patterns. In manner of speech. And I have to ask, what's worse? Turning away people who need help, or having to wait for a multiple account to screw up to shut it down?

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Old October 18th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #52
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
It's observable in behavior patterns. In manner of speech. And I have to ask, what's worse? Turning away people who need help, or having to wait for a multiple account to screw up to shut it down?
There is no turning away. Our policy is entirely compatible with a person with DID being able to participate, it will merely require a small amount of effort on their part to allow both personalities to share the account.

And, as fun as this discussion has been, it is becoming increasingly less productive. As much as I hate to make pronouncements ending debates, I think both the policy here and the rationale for its specifics have been made rather clear and other than continuing to debate it, there is no ground left to cover here, so I'll take my leave.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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There is no turning away. Our policy is entirely compatible with a person with DID being able to participate, it will merely require a small amount of effort on their part to allow both personalities to share the account.
And if one personality is antagonistic, changing the password so the other(s) can't access it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious View Post
And, as fun as this discussion has been, it is becoming increasingly less productive. As much as I hate to make pronouncements ending debates, I think both the policy here and the rationale for its specifics have been made rather clear and other than continuing to debate it, there is no ground left to cover here, so I'll take my leave.

I appreciate that, but I still don't have an understanding of how the issues I've raised fit under the current system, so I'll wait for an admin to fill in the gaps.



Also, for those who think I'm raising this issue for a ridiculous minority, 1% of the adult population of Canada has DID. Source. Unfortunately, I can't find statistics for adolescent population.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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Originally Posted by CaptainObvious View Post
Conjoined twins largely do not share the same body except for a few shared structures. Therefore we would treat them like any other twins.
If you have the same blood supply and shared organs, it's the same body.


Question for good of the argument, where are these mutiple accounts being found?
Because if it's p101ers making 2+ accounts that does not count, and it's kinda dumb to have that represenative of other members.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #55
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
And if one personality is antagonistic, changing the password so the other(s) can't access it?
Fight...fight...fight...

But seriously, then that will be too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Lord 13 View Post
I appreciate that, but I still don't have an understanding of how the issues I've raised fit under the current system, so I'll wait for an admin to fill in the gaps.
The senior staff have decided that for reasons of consistency and to make enforcement possible our policy is 1 account to 1 legal person/body. I have explained the reasons weighed and the problems this policy is perceived to prevent. VT's staff is not in the business of deciding personhood, so we use the same standards as the law to determine that. That's the bottom line.

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If you have the same blood supply and shared organs, it's the same body.
Conjoined twins that live past infancy rarely share more than small amounts of tissue. Sometimes a liver, but normally not even that much. In any case, legal and cultural precedent is to regard them as two different bodies and two different people, and as above, we aren't here to waste our time determining personhood, so we will abide by that standard.

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Question for good of the argument, where are these mutiple accounts being found?
Because if it's p101ers making 2+ accounts that does not count, and it's kinda dumb to have that represenative of other members.
There is a reason we had a global announcement up about it for months. Past that I must apologize but I won't give more details. The assessment of the risks and the appropriate response is not your responsibility, and as always, member discipline is private.

I think we've rather exhausted this.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #56
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Default Re: Would this be considered a multiple account?

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I think we've rather exhausted this.
I agree. We made our policies pretty clear and they aren't going to change. If a member has a special circumstance it can be sorted out privately but for now this is the policy.

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