Thread: Religion
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Old June 30th, 2009, 01:25 PM  
Death
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Join Date: May 2, 2009
Location: Britain
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Yes I do believe it is possible for the world to survive without science. I see no reason why it would be unable to survive. Perhaps the inhabitants on the Earth would not fare very well but the world nonetheless would continue to survive.
When I said 'science', I didn't mean it as in the theory of science makes the world work, I meant the scientific laws themselves. What makes a body work? Why are teh bodis able to move, eat, sleep and so on? It's the science (moreover, biology) that makes i all work. What makes a twig drop when you let go of it? Gravity which is a law based on physics. It's basically these things that all make the world work instead of simply being empty and inanimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
I don't know how many times I have to say it: RELIGION DOES NOT NEED THE PROOF THAT SCIENCE DOES. Would I do it? No, I'd probably refuse to take the dagger but if I had to, I'd take the dagger home or somewhere else but not use it. May just have it as a nice ornament if anything.
If what you are saying is true, then as far as I'm concerned, stuff religion. No proof or logical explainations? Then I'll not listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Your own faith in theory would be good enough to make it true for yourself. If someone else has faith in something different, then you always have a choice. You don't need to believe in what they believe as being true or false.
Making something true for yourself is only speculation. It doesn't mean that it's really true. Say that as far as I'm concerned, I'm invincible then I jump of a cliff, are you saying that I won't die becuase to myself, I cannot die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Are you asking if the bible truly exists? I think it does, yes.
'The Bible' does exist, yes. Is the religion it teaches and enforces true? No. If you think it is, you are not athiest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Science is heavily based on scientific theories which in no way are facts. Science is always proved? No, you can show that something may be true or false but that does not mean that it is 100% or 0% true or false.
I know that there are theories, however, there are some facts that we know shch are defintely true and they are scientific and these theories are made from careful research instad of reckless imaginings and wild speculation which has come from nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
The "knowing it all" part to me is simply a reflection of someone's faith being very strong. It can be both good and bad. I'm not sure I agree with it though because it can violate their own religious beliefs.
True, it proves that they are devout however that can easily lead to narrow-mindedness and I hate that. I do not mind religious people and I don't argue with them, except here for obvious reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
You're right, it could be something completely different but they view it as god having answered their prayers. However, the issue with that is the argument as it would apply to you, that is, god has answered your prayers but you view it as something else. You see the problem now that we are faced with is your word. Only you can be the most reliable source to tell me if that is correct or not, I can suggest it may be right or wrong, and I could bring in a devout believer to give me their answer on it. We're then left with your word vs. theirs. The argument on whether he answered each of your prayers probably will go nowhere because it's simply a "yes-no" back and forth.
If somebody refuses to listen to my words of wisdom that I took more effort to get than they did for teirs for obvious reasons, so be it. Let them believe in whatever far-fetched and unproved stuff they wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
That is also completely true. However, hopefully you're understanding what a paradigm is (you gave a good example of it in this). His paradigm is a religious one whereas yours is not, so he is inclined to view it and use religious beliefs for it. You on the other hand, use a different paradigm.
Again, if someone refuses to look for the factual truth instead of just making something up, let them. Not here though since we are debating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
I can do it myself all I want, however, I choose not to because I see it as pointless and probably wasting my time. I also have no reason to do so whereas you seem much more inclined to do so, so why not let you? My only reason would be to satisfy you and frankly, I don't care about satisfying you one way or another. I can easily pick up some biblical passages and scream "God doesn't exist!!!" but I have no real reason to do so.
Well, that's dissapointed me since I seriously believed that you would do it. If you really won't though, then nor will I. I will argue about religion in my own way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Wait... you allow others to believe in what they want as long as they do not preach? Funny, you going around trying to show god doesn't exist seems awfully close to preaching to me. Back with your example about Nick and the football game, you go against his possible argument and even called his view rubbish. I'm having a hard time believing that you allow others to freely believe.
INFERNO, you're wrong. I am not preaching since this is a debate. If somebody wants to try to dissprove the 'truth' behind athiesm, let them. Why? Because we are in a debate. Outside of debates however, they should shut the hell up. I for one, wouldn't preach since I am better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
If faith won't do, then the question becomes, what will satisfy you? If you say science, then we both know that it won't be a happening thing. For religion, what facts do you propose to be used? Toss around whatever quotes from religious books, give our interpretations on them, and similar stuff?
I want to be able to see things and conduct experiments that show they exist. You can;t d that with religion. Say, you build a campfire and pray to God to ask him to set it alight just to see if he exists. When you realise it hasn't happened, that only suggests he's non-existant or useless or ignorant. And don't say that it's not on fire to you since when you throw yourself in it, you won't die. The fire can't be lit and non-existant at the same time.

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Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
That is a scientific fact?
Of course. In fact, I get the feeling that you're dodging my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INFERNO View Post
Hold on, so your argument is that since something is flawed in some way, then that means god does not exist and/or is not very powerful? In the bible, it makes it very clear that humans are not as powerful nor as perfect as god. About non-humans, this is a reflection of the social times at that time when it was written: humans were considered much more important than other animals, so your wasp example is not really applicable because the bible is for humans not for other animals. Your wasp argument is then void.
I don't think it is void. Religious hymns and prayers (as well as other content) all teach that God made everything (another point, god made all the disgusting things too which (if religion is true) he should be blamed for) so God must have made that wasp as far as religion is concerned. Why would he create something (or another other thing or system including birth) which is imperfect? Is it because he didn't create it or because he's incompetent or what? Thus, I think that I have a point with my wasp thing. Besides, that's one of many little thing that questoin the ability, personality or very existance of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Perhaps the entire argument [the death penalty] can be summarised in just a sentence.

We kill people who kill people to show others that killing is wrong.

Last edited by Death; June 30th, 2009 at 01:34 PM.
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