Thread: Religion
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 11:07 AM  
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Join Date: December 29, 2014
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Default Re: Religion

Originally Posted by Vlerchan View Post
If all started with the creation of the universe then it by definition did. You're just presuming that a "time" before the universe must have existed. I'm yet to see a justification.
Since the universe is unnecessary, something had to have caused it to exist rather than not exist.

Is there a reason that god doesn't need a cause and can exist forever-forever?

Or is he just defined as being that way.
Because God is necessary, he could not have not existed.

Would you mind explaining how it's unnecessary then?


I'd also appreciate if you didn't use words like "first principals" without offering alongside definitions. If it isn't obvious I don't read philosophy so the jargon goes over my head. Thanks in advance.
The laws of the universe are unnecessary in the sense that they didn't have to be as they are.

First principles are those things that are true necessary, they could not have been otherwise.

Could the laws of the universe not just have formed naturally? Does it require an intelligent designer?
They could not have arisen from nature, since the laws of the universe are logically prior to nature.

I'm still unsure why it's required that god be the ultimate standard.
The fourth argument.

If you mean "intelligent" as in "purposeful" then I disagree since I don't believe free will exists.

If you mean "intelligent" as in "clever" then I disagree since I believe that evolution accounts for how mankind is today.
By intelligent I mean "capable of understanding universals".

You just concluded the same as last time here. I said last time I didn't understand how this must necessarily logically follow.
If he chose the laws of the universe, this requires that he cognitively understood them completely.

Doesn't do it for me at all.

If god started the big bang there's no reason we need assume that he intervened beyond that. It's possible that he might have. I agree. But we can't say he did without reference to some holy text.
For the moment this is sufficient on this matter.
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