Thread: Religion
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Old January 1st, 2015, 05:13 PM  
Vlerchan
Leftist Shill
 
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Join Date: August 31, 2013
Location: Ireland
Age: 20
Gender: Cisgender Male
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
If the universe is of finite age it did not exist forever.
If all started with the creation of the universe then it by definition did. You're just presuming that a "time" before the universe must have existed. I'm yet to see a justification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
What I'm saying is that God existed forever, in the second sense, "before" creating the universe.
Is there a reason that god doesn't need a cause and can exist forever-forever?

Or is he just defined as being that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
If course unnecessary things can happen, but they require a cause so that they happen rather than not happen.
Would you mind explaining how it's unnecessary then?

---

I'd also appreciate if you didn't use words like "first principals" without offering alongside definitions. If it isn't obvious I don't read philosophy so the jargon goes over my head. Thanks in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
God created the laws of the universe.
Could the laws of the universe not just have formed naturally? Does it require an intelligent designer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
Keep in mind that God, not being subject to time, would be of one un hanging will, so when we speak of God changing or violating the laws of the universe, he would have always intended to do so.
Ok. I understand this argument. It makes sense to me. Thank you for explaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
We know he is of utmost intelligence due to him containing the perfection of all goods.
I'm still unsure why it's required that god be the ultimate standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
Also, we know he is intelligent simply, since an unintelligent being could not create intelligent beings.
If you mean "intelligent" as in "purposeful" then I disagree since I don't believe free will exists.

If you mean "intelligent" as in "clever" then I disagree since I believe that evolution accounts for how mankind is today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
Since he is intelligent, and since he is omnipotent, he necessarily must be omniscient.
You just concluded the same as last time here. I said last time I didn't understand how this must necessarily logically follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
See the second and third paragraphs.
Doesn't do it for me at all.

If god started the big bang there's no reason we need assume that he intervened beyond that. It's possible that he might have. I agree. But we can't say he did without reference to some holy text.

"When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President. Now I'm beginning to believe it. [C.D.]"
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