Thread: Religion
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Old December 31st, 2014, 10:31 AM  
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Join Date: December 29, 2014
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Default Re: Religion

Originally Posted by Vlerchan View Post
I'm using forever as short-hand for "all the moments since time began" because using it beyond that is nonsensical.
This is a rather confusing usage, as there are those who assert that the universe has existed forever, in the sense that time has continued from infinity. I'm glad you agree that this is impossible.

When I use the term "created the universe" I meant "caused the Big Bang" which acted as a cause for other things. I hope it becomes evident why I don't see changing the universe following logically from creating the universe in this regard. You just proved that god was a cause but there's no reason to presume from that he's an influential cause.

But then I don't see being able to change the universe logically following from creating the universe regardless. There's nothing about being able to create that infers being able to change. It might imply such - but then that just leaves us with more possibilities and not facts.
The laws of the universe do not follow from first principles, they are not metaphysically necessary. The universe could have been made so that gravity would be repulsive, for instance. Thus the laws of the universe were themselves created by God. Because of this, it can be concluded that God is not bound by the laws of the universe, he could change or violate them if he so desired.

I do read 1 and 2 as the same thing demonstrating the possibility of the same thing.

Ok. But how does god beingthe utmost of everything infer omnisentience? I can understand omnibenevolance.
Because he must be the utmost of intelligence. If you're going to ask how do we know that he's not just very smart but not omniscient, then the answer is as follows.

We know he is intelligent, and since he created the universe and possesses omnipotence over it, this necessitates omniscience
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