Thread: Religion
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Old December 30th, 2014, 03:52 PM  
Vlerchan
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Join Date: August 31, 2013
Location: Ireland
Age: 20
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Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
The argument shows that there exists something which is the cause of everything else, and that this thing is itself uncaused.
Presuming we're ignoring the second-line of my response. However the second line is sort of important as it's a rebuttal to the idea itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
The ability to create the universe demonstrates omnipotence.
If we presume that this cause's power extends beyond being able to create the universe.

If not then it is not omnipotent or holding unlimited power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
The other characteristics are demonstrated by the other arguments.
Do these arguments connect back to this argument? Would you mind producing them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
Abiogenesis is a speculation of how non living matter became alive. It doesn't address how matter began to exist.
Oh. I understand now.

Then it would seem that this argument suffers from the criticism that we're just presuming the cause to be god just like the first two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
I think you're confused by the word God. The five ways are not intended to prove that God is the God of Abraham, it's intended to show the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, etc. creator.
It doesn't do either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansasguy
This argument shows that God contains within himself the perfection of all goods.
I have no idea how this presumes the existence of god.

There being an utmost of each descriptor does not infer that the utmost must be god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkasnasguy
A thing cannot give what it does not have. Non-life cannot create life on its own.
I don't understand how you got this from the argument.

Regardless I don't see the need to presume that god created life from non-life. It seems to be another case where god is just defined as the only possible cause.

".... the result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed ... [H.A.]"
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