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Old June 28th, 2007, 02:58 AM  
kolte
I am: I am
 
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Name: Matt
Join Date: May 31, 2005
Location: usa
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Default Re: Bourgeois and Proletariat

Dear SubliminalTim

In the past I have received character defamations, but never has somebody so obsessively, so arrogantly, and unnecessarily gone out of there way to, perhaps better there self esteem on the behalf of my own. Though I don't expect an apology, and hope you don't feel obligated to do so, I do think that perhaps you should consider your words more carefully, so as not to come off rude. I know that I myself fail to do this, though I don't really see myself going to as great an extant as you, I do recognize that some of the things I say are blunt, unthoughtful, idealistic, distorted, unfocused, and rash, I was under the impression that this was a website where, blunt, unthoughtful, idealistic, distorted, unfocused, and rash teens could get together and share there views. I'm not just a human being, I'm a human being with severe personality disparities, and anti social, hostile behaviors. I acknowledge my flaws. Please, consider others when posting. I am not offended necessarily, but obviously I was made angry enough by your post to write this dialog. Please, discard it.

In the defense of communism:
Becoming wealthy off the labor of others is a manager's job, so would you rather be an employee your whole life?
You aren't really getting that I'm a communist are you? You see, in the advancement in society that I support, there would be a society radically different from ours. First of all, a manager is not a capitalist. Manager too is of working class. He too sells his only valuable, his labor, to make money. Our capitalist society reduces the working class to mere robots. Robots not the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind. Anyway, the working class does the same, repetitious job everyday, and the wages it ears for its toil is the minimum amount required to keep it alive. I have been born into a poor family, from a poor part of the united states, I went to a poor, underfunded school, I was mislead, and had little parental control. My mother worked nights, slept in the daytime, and I was isolated, in a new place, I had no friends, and so I turned to the world inside my head, and created a reality divided from the mainstream. My main form of entertainment came from reading. I read texts, not novels. I bought textbooks, and dictionaries, and encyclopedias, and have learned much about science, and mathematics, and language, and philosophy, religion, economics, and politics, not to mention work such as the communist manifesto, on religion, being and nothingness, the portable Nietzsche, the holy family, on the family. I found the Internet as a way to vent my frustrations and to see how my views matched up with my age appropriate population. My findings are, unique. I found that the youth of the nations are not revolutionary. They are spoiled, and dramatic, and enjoy there creature comforts. They are consumed in commercialization. They long for the next new thing. It is precisely what Nietzsche predicted. A generation, and many more it seems, of uneducated, ignorant, arrogant, and greedy people. These people will change the world, and for the better. They will erode society as it is today. They will cause it to fail, with there greed. We are already seeing some early signs of decay within, I need not point out how unstable the global society is becoming. Once the world falls into shambles, the capitalist society having failed, communism will be a haven for lost families. And those who shed the shadows of humanity, will recreate a new world, having noted the failings of the past.
If you are so against child labor, then why do you wear the shirt? Why not make your own shirts? But no, that would be greedy. As you said yourself, capitalism is greed, so you can't do that.
Not at all! I actually love the idea, and Think I'll take you up on that. Communism frowns upon a person who gets rich of the work of other people. A person working in a factory for example, really toils. And at the top of the pyramid, somebody sits back on a silk pillow sipping a margarita. Its not right. So making my own shirts, is actually a really great idea. I can buy material from a small business, so as not to support corporations. And one thing poverty thought me is to sew.
As I said previously, it's not hard to make your own things. You don't even know what things are made by child laborors, there is no tag on any shirt that says "MADE BY CHILDREN". Perhaps they were before, but machinery can make most of the things we buy every day.
One of the harsh realities of capitalism. The people of America might not slave for our goods, but people in say, Africa, SLAVE to make them. Its, as far as I'm aware, my own discovery. I'm sure that others have written on it, I can at least be sure that I came up with it, even if it has already be...come up with.(not well worded). Its called Macro Capitalism. Or, I have found State Capitalism. Micro Capitalism (My term), is where we find a capitalist, say, an oil tycoon, oppressing a worker. In Macro Capitalism, we find a government opressing its people, such as China, or Old Russia, or even modern countries like Sudan, Iran, and other poor African and Asian countries. to generate money the sell there goods to countries like the united states and also Europe, Australia, Japan etc. CAPATILIST competition amongst the nations drives down the cost of the goods, and thus, wages in the factories is driven down, to maximize the little profit there is. It gets messy with commodities like oil, and coal, and steel, timber, technology, cars. These shirts may not necessarily be built by children, you missed the metaphor. You see, It is made by labor in general. Somebody that is very poor and very fragile made these things so that I could enjoy them, being a macro capitalist by the society I'm in, (though a micro communist at the home front). Anyway, moving. on.
How can you compare slave drivers to grocery stores and fast food chains? I don't see the connection. I underline 'all the smut that you hate' because this implies that we all hate all those things you listed. When in reality you hate them and we don't have any problem with it all. And what's with this "owns us all" crap? Walmart doesnt own me, it doesnt control what I do. Buying groceries does not make me some corporation's bitch.
Though its not likely too many fast food workers and the like are subjugated to HEAVY labor, they are often subjugated to high amounts of mental stress and alienation. (Marx argues that alienation in capitalist societies is due to the fact that in work we each contribute to the common wealth, but can only express this fundamentally social aspect of ourselves through a production system that is not social but privately owned, for which we function as instruments, not as social beings ) And its doesn't feel good to be treated like a servant for hungry people. Or just greedy people for that matter. *sobs* Your right WalMart doesn't own you, personally. And yet you buy a product from wal mart. drawn in by there LOW LOW prices. And there bargain deals, being forced to look for cheap alternatives because of a tight budget brought on because of competition...you shop for what you can afford. Walmart is affordable. And thus, it owns you. And when you buy a product. You support labor. You support people of all nations, hard, alienating, and gain less work. Even your own.
If you don't want to be an oppressor, stop buying things. If you do not want to feed the machine, stop buying things.
Its true, but like i said before, competition, makes things you don't support, the most affordable. And living in a capitalist society, I'm forced to deal with money.
The so-called "machine" is called economy, get used to it.
You don't have to be rude about it.
Now you're just rambling.
You don't have to make fun of me.
Let us take a look at another of your posts, shall we?

>>
You're one to talk, freedom fighter.
Sorry I guess? I suppose You want me to apologize?
Based on my points mentioned at the start of this post, I disagree. Communism discourages innovation and higher education by paying everyone equality.
Yes but see there, you said paying everyone equally. And communism would, well, make money obsolete.
Give me examples of capitalist countries that have not lasted very long.
Well, as far as time is concerned, humans havent lasted very long. So every country in our existence has not lasted long. And not to mention, capitalism is very young, formed in the 16-1700s.
For someone against class discrimination, you sound pretty bitter.
Very, you don't know the half of it.
Somebody should've done better in school. ; )
A regret I have to live with every day of my life. But I'm not actually doing bad. I'm a high school graduate. Graduated with 3.8 grade average, not bad at all. Public school and home schooled, best of both worlds I would say. I am very limited financially, but with some of the plans I'm drawing up, I could see myself going to a community college with enough financial freedom, and I suppose, sociology and civil engenerring both sound intriguing, and pretty much, sociology will be my major, with a minor in something like English, or History as a minor.
That's a very futile act in a world where everyone is paid equally regardless of education
Once again with the capitalist money concept, and all. Education would be something to strive for in a communist society. Then the more delegable for jobs you are. And with education free in a communist society, whatever you wanted to be, you could just be it. There would still need to be about a days worth of labor involved, but the rest of your week, would be yours to choose. And with everyone working together to produce the food and shelter and civil services, we could all live with a standard of living resembling a family in the united states that appropriates about 45k dollars yearly. seems good to me.
Valid enough point, I'll give you that, but the entire world doesn't want to share, and going by your communist beliefs, you can't force them to.
Well, I know of about 100 million people out there (communists socialists, and such) would be totally thrilled to be ride of the capitalist beast. And I know we could sway about 5 billion, if only our voice was loud enough.
I choose greed, because it isn't futile.
You we are on two different wave links. ~ peter griffen, family guy



""The New Law of Righteousness," that there "shall be no buying or selling, no fairs nor markets, but the whole earth shall be a common treasury for every man," and "there shall be none Lord over others, but every one shall be a Lord of himself.""
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