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-   -   Equal Pay (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2041012)

mattsmith48 October 31st, 2017 08:47 PM

Equal Pay
 
Why is it so hard to do it? It seems every election they talk about it like its going to be a priority when they get elected and four years later, nothing. Men and women must be paid the same for doing the same work, how hard can that be? Its not like its a controversial where both sides have point. If anyone were to come out and say women should make less than men, every one else would look and tell them 'what the fuck is wrong with you?

PlasmaHam October 31st, 2017 09:10 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
It is already illegal to pay people more or less based upon their gender. Been that way since the 70s, at least in the USA. What do you expect politicians to do? Make it more illegal?

mattsmith48 October 31st, 2017 09:28 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaHam (Post 3586233)
It is already illegal to pay people more or less based upon their gender. Been that way since the 70s, at least in the USA. What do you expect politicians to do? Make it more illegal?

Depending on the source you look at the gap in the US is between 0.80 and 0.91, so somewhere there is a problem, maybe its from a non-enforcement of the law or not the punishment is not severe enough, etc.

Babs October 31st, 2017 11:41 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsmith48 (Post 3586237)
Depending on the source you look at the gap in the US is between 0.80 and 0.91, so somewhere there is a problem, maybe its from a non-enforcement of the law or not the punishment is not severe enough, etc.

Would you mind citing a source that specifically deals with men and women working for the same company or in the same industry?

Dalcourt November 1st, 2017 12:55 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Babs (Post 3586251)
Would you mind citing a source that specifically deals with men and women working for the same company or in the same industry?

Yeah, would be interesting. I often hear people complain about this unequal payment thing but I find it hard to believe that the same company would do different paychecks.

Snowfox November 1st, 2017 01:27 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
also what counts is how much they do work overtime. or how well they perform.
In my work at constructions there is one woman who is mason and one man who is also mason. both are stonemasons. Man is way faster and does work a lot more than this woman. Both of them do good job but this man does bit better since he has been doing that bricklaying last 25 years while this woman has been in business for 15 years. Man makes more and i fail to see anything wrong in that. Well I am not SJW

Stronk Serb November 1st, 2017 04:27 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
It's illegal to pay them more, but the reason why all women combined earn less than all men combined is because some do not work and decide to stay at home. Also many professions are female-dominated, like teaching, kindergartens, nurses. Also many women decide on careers which simply pay less.

The pay gap in the US is a lie. It is essentially combining the earnings of all females and comparing them to the earnings of all men. Also if women were really paid less than men in a same company doing the same job, why wouldn't the evil patriarchic capitalists have an all-female workforce? Would be definitely more profitable.

Living For Love November 1st, 2017 04:48 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsmith48 (Post 3586237)
Depending on the source you look at the gap in the US is between 0.80 and 0.91, so somewhere there is a problem, maybe its from a non-enforcement of the law or not the punishment is not severe enough, etc.

Nope, it's because of the loopholes buried in the EPA that significantly reduce its effectiveness and are easily exploited by employers. Not to mention that, in some cases, paying men and women the same might be detrimental for women, thought I agree that, nonetheless, equal work should be rewarded with equal pay.

ShineintheDark November 1st, 2017 08:33 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
I recently went to a medical lecture day at a local hospital where they had a panel of women discussing female-orientated issues. One such woman there was a female cardiothoracic surgeon who had been in the profession for many years and she was asked this question. She agreed with the idea that it was less a disparity between the wages of the surgeons and more the fact that promotions and pay rises are few and far between in many industries, especially medicine, and that she personally believes that her female coworkers were being too unmotivated to push and apply for them. Baring in mind this is a woman who is a surgeon, one of the most male dominated professions in the modern job climate; cardiothoracic surgery being even more so. Therefore, I'm more likely to believe her opinion on the matter from her personal experience than many flawed surveys.

Living For Love November 1st, 2017 08:48 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stronk Serb (Post 3586289)
Also if women were really paid less than men in a same company doing the same job, why wouldn't the evil patriarchic capitalists have an all-female workforce?

Because of maternity leave and other factors that are intrinsically associated with females. That's basically one of the main issues of EPA.

PlasmaHam November 1st, 2017 09:15 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
As stated, the idea that women are earning an unfair percentage less than men is based upon a flawed study. It essentially just compared the average paycheck of the two genders, failing to account for other variables. For instance, men are more likely to work longer hours, and are more likely to work high-paying jobs. Women on the other hand are more likely to take breaks from their jobs, be it maternity leave or vacation, and to work part-time due to raising a family. If you include all the variables, then you come up with a pay-gap that is essentially non-existent.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShineintheDark (Post 3586305)
...She agreed with the idea that it was less a disparity between the wages of the surgeons and more the fact that promotions and pay rises are few and far between in many industries, especially medicine, and that she personally believes that her female coworkers were being too unmotivated to push and apply for them. Baring in mind this is a woman who is a surgeon, one of the most male dominated professions in the modern job climate; cardiothoracic surgery being even more so.

I've heard this before, from many professional women in male-dominated work-forces. Women, on average, aren't as assertive as men. Which is a good thing in some situations, but not when it comes to limited job promotion in high stress environments. Men are simply more likely to put them self out there for a promotion, so they are more likely to get it.

NewLeafsFan November 2nd, 2017 02:20 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
As a left wing progressive I don't believe in equal pay. That sounds a little bit too far left for me. Borderline communism. Some people pay and work hard for an education or a certain position and they deserve the benefits that comes with their position.

maddogmj77 November 2nd, 2017 03:46 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeafsFan (Post 3586522)
As a left wing progressive I don't believe in equal pay... Some people pay and work hard for an education or a certain position and they deserve the benefits that comes with their position.

You believe that two people, doing the exact same job, with the exact same qualifications, for the exact same company, should be allowed to be payed different amounts simply based on their gender or any other discriminatory status?

Keep in mind, this is already illegal. The wage gap is due to Men being in higher paying jobs; not Women being paid less for the same job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeafsFan (Post 3586522)
That sounds a little bit too far left for me. Borderline communism.

You obviously have no idea what communism is, or entails.
Equal Pay is an idea of Social Democracy; A way to lessen the consequences of Faissez-Faire Capitalism.

In communism, there is no government, no private companies, & no money.
So "Equal pay" wouldn't even exist because a communist country wouldn't have money.

When someone suggests that the workers "sieze the means of production", 'then' you might be onto something.

lliam November 2nd, 2017 12:20 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Even if a woman in the same industry earns less on the same job than a man in the same position, that doesn't necessarily mean that her salary is only lower because she is a woman. She can just have the misfortune to work for a company that either doesn't want to pay more for this job ... or they can't pay more.

NewLeafsFan November 2nd, 2017 12:33 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddogmj77 (Post 3586527)
You believe that two people, doing the exact same job, with the exact same qualifications, for the exact same company, should be allowed to be payed different amounts simply based on their gender or any other discriminatory status?

Keep in mind, this is already illegal. The wage gap is due to Men being in higher paying jobs; not Women being paid less for the same job.



You obviously have no idea what communism is, or entails.
Equal Pay is an idea of Social Democracy; A way to lessen the consequences of Faissez-Faire Capitalism.

In communism, there is no government, no private companies, & no money.
So "Equal pay" wouldn't even exist because a communist country wouldn't have money.

When someone suggests that the workers "sieze the means of production", 'then' you might be onto something.

I'm sorry. I had misunderstood part of the post. Men and women with equal experience and qualifications should earn equal pay. My mistake.

Dmaxd123 November 3rd, 2017 06:36 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
i have also heard that sometimes a woman may get payed less because she doesn't negotiate her starting salary or doesn't ask for a raise

if the male counterpart asks for a raise and he deserves it he gets it, but if the woman doesn't ask boss assumes she is happy so may just give a standard cost of living raise or a bonus but not actually pay more out

so no one is at fault in that scenario it's just business and personalities

lliam November 3rd, 2017 11:56 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmaxd123 (Post 3586781)
if the male counterpart asks for a raise and he deserves it he gets it, but if the woman doesn't ask boss assumes she is happy


that goes for males who never ask too. If someone wants more money, he or she must be active and prove to the boss that his/her work is worth it. Who sells oneself under value, or does nothing at all, will never even be noticed by the boss. As for that, those guys can't never expect a substantial salary increase.

Arkansasguy November 4th, 2017 10:41 AM

Re: Equal Pay
 
As already stated, the pay gap is a myth.

In any case though, the fundamental premise is flawed. Since men are supposed to be the breadwinners, married men with kids should be paid more.

maddogmj77 November 4th, 2017 02:42 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkansasguy (Post 3587093)
Since men are supposed to be the breadwinners

That's pretty sexist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkansasguy (Post 3587093)
married men with kids should be paid more.

Compared to their Wives? Why? Again, this is fairly sexist and discriminatory.

What if it was a lesbian couple with kids? or a single mom?

Arkansasguy November 4th, 2017 03:35 PM

Re: Equal Pay
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddogmj77 (Post 3587179)
That's pretty sexist.

So? What is "sexism"? And why is it bad?

Quote:

Compared to their Wives?
A mother's place is in the home. It is the man's responsibility to provide for his wife, not vice versa.

Quote:

What if it was a lesbian couple with kids? or a single mom?
Bad behavior should not be rewarded. In the case of a widow or desertion victim with children, yes, she should make more than a single person.


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