religion

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

we had a good debate going on the abortion and i though that it would be a good idea to focus more of the religous aspects that were mentioned in everyone's arguments.



I do not believe that salvation is decided by works, because not only would that be implying that we are capable of making our own way to Heaven, it would also mean that Jesus died on the cross in vain, and it would imply that His dying on the cross for our sins wasn't enough to get us to Heaven. Either way, it's a blasphemous thought.

I believe that you must believe on Jesus as the Son of God and that you must dedicate your life to Him. Only you and God know if you're truly saved, so no one can ever tell you whether you are going to Heaven or hell, because they don't know what's in your heart. However, that doesn't mean that you can just say "oh, I believe in Jesus," and then you're saved. Even the devil believes in Jesus. You have to dedicate your life to Him. If you're not living the life that Jesus wants you to, or at least trying to live that way, then you're probably not saved. I wont say you definitely aren't, because I have no way of knowing, but you have to ask yourself, "does Jesus want me to be doing this?" And if the answer is no and you do it anyway with little or no conviction, then you should probably have a talk with your pastor or with God. I'm not trying to cast doubt on anyone, I'm just trying to help people understand what I believe it means to be saved.

Also, Koler, you mentioned 2 Kings 2:23-24 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

You said that because of this passage, God is violent. However, you also claim that this prophet sent these bears in God's name b/c he was called a "bald head". This is not the case. If you go a little further back into the first chapter of 2 Kings, you will see that Elijah had just gone on to be with God. However, he did not actually die a physical death, he merely ascended into Heaven, because he was one of God's greatest prophets and as near perfect as man can be. Just before the passage you mentioned, Elisha, Elijah's apprentice and God's new prophet, has been preaching on Elijah's ascension. These children come out of the city and tell him to "Go up, thou," and call him a "bald head". "Bald head", in those times, was considered a taunt of scorn, not an insult to someone without hair on their head. When the children tell Elisha to "go up thou", they are mocking his claims of Elijah's ascension, saying, "If he can do it, then why don't you," similar to when someone says, "you say there's a God, well prove it."

I cannot tell you why God would do this in response to these children blaspheming his word, but would not strike you down for telling Him to “F off” because I am not God and I don’t know how He thinks. I trust Him and His reasons. The bible, in my opinion, has no holes, no inaccuracies, and no contradictions. Also, the idea of atheism and of the world creating itself is scientifically impossible, and so there had to have been some kind of God who created the universe. In that case, I believe the Christian God to be the real one, because I have studied other “Gods”, and the God of theism (of which Christianity believes in) makes the most sense to me. If you’d like to know my reasoning, I’d be happy to explain it at a later time.

I see no reason why Christians and non-Christians should not be able to live peacefully together in this world, or at least in this country. I am not against abortion merely because of my faith, I am against it because of my own personal morals and convictions. I realize that this country is about freedom of choice, but I fail to see how anyone could make the choice to take a human life, especially when it is for their own selfish reasons, whether it is a complete human life or not.

Koler, I understand what you said about hypocrites, and I’m afraid to say that you will find such people in every faith, religion, and denomination. But the presence of these people does not mean that God does not exist. There is a larger majority of Christians who (though we fail at times) try our hardest to do what we believe is right by God. We are not perfect, because man is incapable of being perfect, but we try as best as we can. You also did not mention Baptist when you listed the churches you’ve been to. Now, I’m not saying Baptists are better than anyone else, but so far out of the different denominations I’ve been to and different doctrines I’ve studied, the Baptist doctrine seems to be the one that makes the most sense according to the bible and what it says. If you’d like to discuss Baptist doctrines, I’d be more than happy to.

Lastly (and sorry this is so long), I ask that people who are non-Christians should think on what I am about to say. One of my friends at church mentioned this to me, and I think he is absolutely right. As Christians, we believe very seriously in what we read in the bible, and in the most wonderful God that we worship. To us, our faith is a beautiful thing, and the God we serve is a wonderful, loving, and just God. So when we begin to try and tell someone who is not a Christian about our God and our faith, we are trying to do good for that person. However, the person who is not a Christian is often times hostile, and acts as though we are trying to harm them. I understand that you may not want to listen, or that you may grow tired of Christians always trying to “save” you. But I ask of you something: the next time someone who is a Christian tries to talk to you about their faith, be nice to them (as long as they are nice to you, of course, which most of them will be), and remember that in their mind, they are only trying to help you, to tell you about this wonderful life that they are experiencing through God and faith. We have been charged by God (in the bible) to go and tell everyone about Him and His ministry, so in a sense we are only doing what we have been asked to do, but we are also doing it out of love and concern for our fellow man. Please remember that we are only trying to do good for you and for this world, and that we are not out to annoy or harm you with our beliefs.

[kolte]

I am agnostic more then atheist. I have not discovered the truth for myself. In all religions, I find information that makes me doubt the validly of said religion. Christianity is a religion I have studied quite a bit. My grandmother is a Dr. of Theology. We have often discussed the bible, and its meanings. Threw my study of religion, I have come to the conclusion, that the most believable religion, that I myself find most acceptable to me, is in fact, Buddhism. I have practiced the religion and found it to be quite kind to the senses. I calm and less stressful mind followed my discovery of this ancient religion, crafted from Hinduism. Some Buddhists believe in gods, others do not. It is not that I don’t believe in Gods, or Goddesses, its is simply that I have not clicked with a God yet.

When I make rants about Christianity, I’m not trying to strip you of your religion, but simply urge you to look at what you are believing in. Something that is, to me, contradicting, and often violent and shrewd. I just hope that perhaps you do turn around and challenge your religion, perhaps study other religions and if at the end of the day, you still believe in Christ and Jehovah, then by all means, do what makes you happy.

I do not wish to ever again be a part of an Christian Denomination or Organization. I felt pressured, guilty and hurt when I followed that path. My life was controlled by fear of doing bad, and not an urge to do good. I don’t want to live that life.

It is my philosophy that religion spawned from mans fear of death. Nowadays, there shouldn’t be a fear of death, for there are only three ideas about what’s after death, and none of them are bad. In one idea about the afterlife, there is nothing, it is simply over, nothing to fear at all. In another there is heaven and hell, heaven is for good people, hell is for bad people, and who but a good person would believe in this idea, so in this instance, all is good. And the last is that life goes threw a constant cycle of death, birth, life, death, birth. until you reach enlightenment and retire to Nirvana. As you can see, none of these are scary at all. So what are we all worried about?

In conclusion I ask that we all challenge what we have learned, and discover the truth for ourselves. In this way, at least we do our own work.

[Charlotte]

Koler, I understand and respect your decision to discover what you feel that makes you comfortable.
I feel as if I'm sort of on the same path at the moment. But as I have grown up with Christianity around me, I find it difficult to let go of the practices that I have grown up with, to explore other religions/ practices. However, even though this may not go well with the others on this board, I have seen/ read/ heard things within the Christian religion that I do not find satisfactory in the way that things are 'meant' to be according to the Bible.

Life is about discovering 'you' and what you want and need out of life. And only we as individuals can discover what the truth is for ourselves. And I know that the others on this board cannot disagree with this statement.

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

I am not a Christian because I have a "fear of death". I am a Christian because Christianity makes sense to me, and because I have felt God's presence and witnessed His miracles on numerous occasions.

However, you say that "good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell". In my belief, this is not the case. In my belief, there are no "good" and "bad" people, only sinners. The bible says this clear and plain as day in Romans 3:9e "that they are all under sin", 3:10 "As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one", and 3:12c "there is none that doeth good, no, not one".

No one is "good", because everyone sins. If you have ever sinned (and no person can honestly say that they haven't), then you are not "good" (righteous). This is why no one can get to Heaven without Jesus (John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."), because we cannot be "good enough", because we are all bad. And so God sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross for the sins of man, so that through Jesus we may find salvation. If we, by our own actions and "goodness", were able to inherit the kingdom of Heaven, why did Jesus need to die on the cross?

I do not feel pressured or guilty, because I know that I am a sinner, but that I have been given hope through Jesus. If I sin, I am convicted, but not because God thinks it's wrong, I am convicted because I know its wrong, and because it feels wrong when I do it. Even before I was saved, I still felt things to be wrong when I did them, just not in the same sense of conviction, because it was my own conscience rather than the presence of the Holy Spirit in my heart. I'm sorry that Christianity has made you feel that way. My old church was much in that same way that makes you feel pressured, because they believed that you had to do good all the time, and that if you sinned, you needed to drop everything and repent immediately because if you didn't and you died right then, you'd go to hell. Talk about pressure! It's so much nicer knowing that all I have to do is do my best for the Lord and He will save me a place in heaven.

Although I have never practiced any religion other than Christianity, I have studied all types of faiths, as I mentioned before. Every religion fits into a faith. Christianity fits in or Monotheism. Some forms of Buddhism, for example, are a branch of pantheism, which in essence is actually polytheism in disguise, and is very contradictory of itself. I have yet to find a faith other than Theism that is not contradictory to itself.

Monotheism religions include Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Out of these three, Christianity is the one I have chosen. I believe that there is strong evidence to support the existence of Jesus Christ, and the fact that He is and was the Son of God, and that He is God. If Jesus was not the Son of God, and if the Jewish priests who convicted, arrested, and crucified Him, were not afraid that He was telling the truth, then why did they break several of their own laws in order to silence Him as quickly as possible? But that's not the only reason I believe in Jesus, just one of the more interesting ones.

You say your life was controlled by the fear of doing wrong, not the urge to do good. My life revolves around the urge to what I believe is right by God. Yes, I fear Him and the consequences I know can befall me if I do not live according to His will, but that is not why I do what I believe is right, I do it because I believe it is right. I don't do the things that I believe are wrong because I have no desire to do them, and because I have no desire to pollute my life with them. Although I fear God, it is not this fear that keeps me from wanting to sin, it is my love for Him, and His love and kindness to me, that makes me want, no, makes me yearn to do His will.

I agree that you have to decide for yourself, but I do not believe that life is about your own personal wants and needs. Life is about making this world a better place for everyone in it, and about doing the will of God as He has directed us in His word. Nor do I believe that everyone has their own truth. That's like saying everyone can have their own meaning for the same word, and it is still the same word. That is an impossible and illogical statement. There is only one truth. I believe I have discovered that truth. I agree that everyone will decide for themselves what they believe that truth is, but that does not mean that everyone is right.

There are many doctrines in the Baptist church, the most prominent being that salvation comes by faith in Jesus, not our personal works, and that it is eternal.

There are many other less known and less debated ones, and I would be happy to explain any ones that you would like me to.

These doctrines and their contrast to doctrines and beliefs that are found in many other denominations, are the reason I have decided to stay with the Baptist denomination. Not to mention that the Baptist church can be and is traced all the way back to Jesus and His disciples. These doctrines follow with the bible more closely than any other denomination I've seen, practiced, and/or studied.

Just to clear something, I know absolutely nothing about the Pentecostal church, and would love to be enlightened as to what you believe.

I would also like to specify that I am an Independent Baptist, and that there is a difference between that and other branches of Baptism, such as Southern Baptist.

I have been to no church that reveres and studies the bible as literally or as closely as this one. All the other churches I have been to continually tried to pass off certain passages as irrelevant because of "context" or "cultural changes" and so on. This church has never done that. Every verse in the bible is taken to its fullest meaning and is studied to its furthest depths, and then followed as it is written. All the other churches I've been to or denominations I've studied are always casting doubt on parts of God's word or are preaching things from God's word that are obvious misinterpretations. And I DO believe that the bible can be misinterpreted. I don't for one minute believe that God intended all of mankind to read His word, decide what they believe it means, live it, and they be as right as the person next to them, who believes the exact opposite. I believe that there is only one true way to interpret the bible, and that this can only be found through extensive study of your bible.

[kolte]

One slight problem with Christianity is that they are very, I don’t want to say it, but arrogant about there religion or denomination. These leads to people disliking them because they don’t liked to be cornered. Though a majority of Christians don’t understand the opposition to them trying to help other people, try and look at it in this way. If a Hindu from India was to CONSTANTLY preach to you about Hinduism when you had practiced Christianity most of your life, and didn’t want to change. It would become annoying when they just wouldn’t shut up about it you understand?

Its like ok, ok, ok, your religion is the only way to salvation and all the people of religions not Christian will surly burn in the fiery pits of hell because your god is a loving forgiving god. << please laugh, that’s supposed to make you laugh, though its very true in itself without the humor.

So you see, you can follow that religion all you want Hun, that’s not going to change the fact that people are TIRED of it. I will never NEVER be about to be a politician in the United States. NEVER. And its not because I’m not good enough for it, its because I’m not Christian, and no Christian in there right mind would think about voting for a non Christian. Unless I lie to people and tell them I’m Christian, I won’t ever get to be what I really want to be. I HAD a necklace of a pagan symbol, I didn’t care that it was pagan, I didn’t even think about it, really I didn’t. It was really cool, I saw it, I liked it, I thought it would look good. I wore it to school, not exposed or showing, but under my hoddy. I took my hoddy off during lunch break because it was warm out, and I walked past the Fellowship of Christians or whatever there called, and seriously, one of my friends in the group, tore the necklace off of my neck and called me a Satanist. Nobody said anything otherwise, a large group of Christians and nobody defended me? Wow talk about give a cold man a coat and a bum some shoes. Not even going to say “don’t judge” I didn’t get it back, I don’t know nor do I care what happened to it. I had a journal with all of my favorite band names written in cool fonts on the inside cover of it. It was an English journal. I left it in class. One of the bands was Nirvana, and I had written, as a humorous inside joke between me and my best friend. “Jesus Is Kurt Kobain” It was more a joke then anything, but it was written in there. My teacher kept me after class to talk about it! I was like, Mrs. Black, though I understand you are Christian and by all means should be concerned, however, I do not follow that faith and do not feel it necessary to censer things written in my journal when nobody but I is meant to read it. It wasn’t a journal I was ever meant to turn in, it was just a notes journal. She marked the comment out with a sharpie and asked that I not write anything like that again. I of course did, because its my freedom of speech. I was in a class called ACE when I went to public school, and there were allot of, opinionated people in that class. When they learned I was not a Christian, they were MUCH MUCH MUCH less friendly to me, they argued with me constantly though I didn’t want to argue, they singled me out, they called me names, I couldn’t stand being the minority religion. It isn’t fair. Christians can SHOUT there religion, people will still treat them equal, I so much as were a pagan necklace, I’m in some deep shit. Imagine if, similar to the shirts Christians wear, I wore a shirt with “Got Buddha?” I guarantee, that I would get poorer service at restaurants, stores everywhere, because they would automatically know that I wasn’t Christian and they would HATE me for it. You know its true, and if you don’t believe me, wear a shirt that says that, and see how awkward people react to you.

[redcar]

kolte u say that Christians dont like to be cornered, but that can be said about everyone. if you corner someone you will get their backs up and they will become agressive doesnt matter what the thing is.

if someone cornered me i would become very very not nice!

but the thing i need to ask is why you would corner someone, the only reason i would see is to provoke a reaction, and when people argue about peoples faiths that can provoke a big reaction, because its about peoples beliefs.

[kolte]

kolte u say that Christians dont like to be cornered, but that can be said about everyone. if you corner someone you will get their backs up and they will become agressive doesnt matter what the thing is.

if someone cornered me i would become very very not nice!

but the thing i need to ask is why you would corner someone, the only reason i would see is to provoke a reaction, and when people argue about peoples faiths that can provoke a big reaction, because its about peoples beliefs.

I said they corner people, not that I corner them n.n

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

Some people who say they're Christians are like that, as much as I hate to think about it. A lot of Christians are judgemental and yes, arrogant. But that's not the way they should be, and I'm not a judgmental person, nor have I ever been. I'm sorry that one of them took your necklace, and I'm sorry that your teacher got onto you. I'm very, very sorry that you've had such bad experiences with Christianity and with Christians. It pains me to hear that, because there's another side of Christianity, a beautiful one that you haven't and may never see, thanks to those people.

When I asked that you see it from that point, I wasn't talking about someone who is constantly on your back about it, annoying you with it. I try not to be that way, though I may come off that way sometimes. Usually what I do as much as I can for a person, and then pray to God that He'll do the rest. I as an individual am not capable of "changing your mind", I can only give information, beliefs, and maybe hope. And so when I said that, I meant that if someone starts talking to you about their beliefs, not if someone is nagging you about it, that you should remember that they are trying to help and not be mean to them.

People are not tired of Christianity. Some people may be, yes, and it's sad that it's gone so downhill, esp with what all of these "non-denominational" churches have turned it into. But do you really think that just because the "public opinion" of Christianity has declined, that it is suddenly invalid, or always has been? Just because people don't want to believe that its real (and the only reason they don't want to is because they want to be able to ruin their lives with sex, alcohol, and drugs -among other things- without feeling guilty about it), doesn't mean it can't possibly be.

I can assure you that, had I been there during that incident, I would have stood up for you, even if I didn't know you very well. You don't have to believe me, but I did virtually the same thing for a boy in one of my classes in high school, because a "Christian girl" was treating him in a way that she shouldn't have because of some symbol he drew. The symbol was pretty offensive for Christians, but that doesn't mean that she should have reacted the way that she did, and I told her as much, although she probably didn't listen to a word I said. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but there are real Christians out there who don't act like they're better than everyone else, because we don't think we are. I am a sinner, just the same as you, and you wearing a pagan symbol around your neck is as much of a sin in my God's eyes as if I were to utter a curse word. We're all the same, none are better than any other, even though some act as though they are. True Christianity has never preached arrogance, and those "Christians" who do have invented that of their own violition.

My God is a loving and forgiving God, he is also a merciful and just God. Which is why anyone can enter heaven through Jesus, not just Christians (although when you are saved, you become a Christian, so I guess it works out that way), but I never said that everyone from every other religion would burn in the fiery pits of hell. I jsut said (if you'd read correctly) that I have no way of knowing where anyone is going, other than myself. So I would never tell someone that they are going to go to hell. You have your entire life to make the decision, and even if you make it but a second before you die, you will still enter Heaven, because God never put a time limit on it. Once you die, however, I do believe that you will go to hell if you are not saved. But I can't sit here and tell you specifically that you will, because I don't know your heart, and I can't see into the future. That is why it is my job to make sure everyone hears God's word and gets a chance to know Jesus, and that is why I am so outspoken about my faith. Because the fate of every soul on earth rests in my hands. And that is what I believe.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Christianity because of what you experience, but I'd like to give you the opportunity (if you're willing) to see the God I serve, and learn Christianity the way I believe. If you don't want to, I wont force you, but I promise you that hypocrisy is not high on my list. Revelations 3:15-16 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Seems the God I serve doesn't like hypocrites anymore than you do! (That is supposed to make you laugh, or at least make you smile. The sentence that you hoped would make me laugh only made me smile sadly, because people really do think the way you portrayed, and because people see God as this soft, doormat type character that can be walked all over, simply because He is so loving. He is loving God, but that doesn't mean that He's a wimp, and He will hold everyone to the consequences of their actions).

I'd really like to show you Christianity the way I see it, because if the world lived by the faith and beliefs that I have, there would be no need for a decision as horrible as whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to execute a serial killer, because there would be no serial killers and no unplanned pregnancies. I'm not naive enough to believe that such a perfect world would ever exist, but that doesn't stop me from trying to build it, on person at a time. The reason I (and many other Christians) seem so pushy, is because we want so badly for you, and for everyone else, to experience what we do and to feel the peace, the serenity, and the security that we do. That is why I say we're only trying to help, but really, its more than that, we're trying to make this world a better place, and we're trying to make life better for everyone in it.

And unfortunately, Christians cannot shout their religion as much as you think, especially in schools and such. Trust me, there were plenty of times that my friends and I were singled out, hated, called names, and yes, picked on by teachers, for our religion. It goes both ways. A friend of mine was cussed out by a boy who was jewish b/c of her faith, and the teacher wouldn't do anything about it because he was "expressing his opinion" supposedly, but then that same friend had her bible taken away from her by a teacher for simply carrying it down the hall. We're not allowed to pray in the classroom, and even if we did, we'd be laughed at. They're even trying to take "Under God" out of the pledge, even though this country was founded on God, and "In God We Trust" off of our money. You don't even have to say the pledge in public school if you don't want to, and who really reads that tiny line of print on bills anyway? This country was founded by Christians, but they added the "freedom of religion" stipulation to protect the church from the government, not the other way around.

Separation of Church and State isn't even a law, and it's not in the Constitution. it was merely a statement made by Thomas Jefferson in a letter in which he was assuring a church that the government would not interfere with their practices, nor would the government establish a "national religion". It was meant to protect the church from the state, not the other way around, and yet now it has been twisted around so that it restricts the church and allows the government to do whatever it wants to the church and to the people of the church. That is part of why I agree that there should be no "national religion", because no one should be "forced" to be a Christian, or anything else, not that you can truly force such a thing on a person anyway. People should not be restricted in their faith, unless that faith is bringing them to really harm another person, such as if your faith said that you should go murder a bunch of innocent children. At that point it should be stopped, but as long as you are not harming others, you should not be restricted.

You ask why God does not strike you down for cursing at Him, and prove His existence. Because if He did, then we would no longer have the free will, the choice to follow Him (you would also eventually come to hate Him for stripping you of that choice). He doesn't want you to believe in Him because you have no choice in the matter. That is how much He loves us, that He would stand back and let us make our own decision, and not force us to believe or do anything. You say, "but if He proved Himself, then everyone would follow Him and the world would be a better place." Sadly, this would not happen. He did countless things that proved His existence throughout the centuries, and people still turned from Him, they still cursed His name. Adam and Eve are the best example, they lived with God in paradise, and they still turned their back on Him and rejected Him by eating of that fruit. No matter what, people will still believe what they want to believe and do what they want to do, and that's the sad fact of the matter.

[kolte]

No one who has made a genuine effort to examine other religions with an open mind could think that there is only one true religion and that all the others are false. The first thing you notice when you study the different religions is just how much they have in common. All religions acknowledge that human kind's present state is unsatisfactory. All believe that change of attitude and behavior is needed if the human situation is to improve. All teach an ethics that includes love, kindness, patience, generosity and social responsibility and all accept the existence of some from of absolute. They use different languages, different names and different symbols to describe and explain these things. It is only when people cling narrow-mindedly to there particular way of seeing things that intolerance, pride and self-righteousness arise. I have sadly fallen pray to this narrow-minded point of view. I felt that my religious decisions were true and that everyone else was blind. I was wrong for this, and I have now learned acceptance and open-mindedness. I encourage all to follow the same path, only if you are comfortable.

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

I have examined them with an open mind, and although many of them do have things in common, that doesn't mean that there can't be only one true religion. In fact, even with these similarities, all religions have differences, and it's these differences that make it impossible for all of these "gods" to exist in harmony.

There is nothing "narrow minded" about realizing which religion you believe is the right one, or which god you think you should serve. You can't serve them all, its impossible, because they all ask for different things. It's illogical to assume that on person can follow the wiccan gods as well as the Christian God. It's also illogical to assume that you can follow Buddha and Allah. There are too many differences in these gods and these religions to expect them to fit together, or to expect anyone to be able to to do what all of them say at the same time.

There's also nothing wrong with intolerance of things like people harming other people, or people harming themselves. There is no pride in humbling yourself before the god you've chosen to serve. But you can't humble yourself before many gods, and so by trying to follow many gods (usually because one of those gods expects or demands something you can't or wont give), you are in fact clinging to your pride. By refusing to submit to a specific god through faith in their teachings, you are proudly clinging to your intelligence, your "open mindedness", as you call it. People who shout about open mindedness and how there can't be one specific religion or there can't be just one God, or there can't be just one interpretation of the bible, torah, Koran, whatever, those people are afraid. They're afraid to choose one specific thing, because there's always a slight chance that they could be wrong. And so they drift somewhere in between the absolutes, afraid to give in lest they be proved wrong and made to look a fool.

Don't be that person. There will always be the fear of failure, but don't let that fear drive you to be unreasonable and illogical. Don't let that fear cause you to miss out on something you could have been experiencing for all of your life. There's still time to make your choice, as long as you're alive, there is still time. Don't waste that time sitting on the fence, afraid to jump to either side because you don't know what could be there. That's a sad waste of a life to me. You have to take the plunge, dive in to something, or you can live a half-life because you're afraid to give in and lose your "independence", your "freedom of choice".

You can spend your life on the fence, proudly clinging to those two things, or you can make a decision to join life and live it, without being afraid of being wrong.

[AC.wAkeBoArDin.06]

Just a point to make.... Christians and Jews pray to the SAME God....
we just differ that jesus was the son of God

[kolte]

I have examined them with an open mind, and although many of them do have things in common, that doesn't mean that there can't be only one true religion. In fact, even with these similarities, all religions have differences, and it's these differences that make it impossible for all of these "gods" to exist in harmony.

There is nothing "narrow minded" about realizing which religion you believe is the right one, or which god you think you should serve. You can't serve them all, its impossible, because they all ask for different things. It's illogical to assume that on person can follow the wiccan gods as well as the Christian God. It's also illogical to assume that you can follow Buddha and Allah. There are too many differences in these gods and these religions to expect them to fit together, or to expect anyone to be able to to do what all of them say at the same time.

There's also nothing wrong with intolerance of things like people harming other people, or people harming themselves. There is no pride in humbling yourself before the god you've chosen to serve. But you can't humble yourself before many gods, and so by trying to follow many gods (usually because one of those gods expects or demands something you can't or wont give), you are in fact clinging to your pride. By refusing to submit to a specific god through faith in their teachings, you are proudly clinging to your intelligence, your "open mindedness", as you call it. People who shout about open mindedness and how there can't be one specific religion or there can't be just one God, or there can't be just one interpretation of the bible, torah, Koran, whatever, those people are afraid. They're afraid to choose one specific thing, because there's always a slight chance that they could be wrong. And so they drift somewhere in between the absolutes, afraid to give in lest they be proved wrong and made to look a fool.

Don't be that person. There will always be the fear of failure, but don't let that fear drive you to be unreasonable and illogical. Don't let that fear cause you to miss out on something you could have been experiencing for all of your life. There's still time to make your choice, as long as you're alive, there is still time. Don't waste that time sitting on the fence, afraid to jump to either side because you don't know what could be there. That's a sad waste of a life to me. You have to take the plunge, dive in to something, or you can live a half-life because you're afraid to give in and lose your "independence", your "freedom of choice".

You can spend your life on the fence, proudly clinging to those two things, or you can make a decision to join life and live it, without being afraid of being wrong.

I don't believe in a god. its not that I fail to choose one, I just don't believe in a god. I follow the philosophy of the buddha. NO god, NO religion.

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

First of all, if you are following the "philosophy" of someone, that is a religion. Christians follow the "philosophy" of Jesus, Muslims follow the "philosophy" of Muhammad. If you follow the philosophy of Buddha, you are a Buddhist.

Second, the possibility of there being no divine or supernatural power has been all but squashed. Scientific evidence (and I know how atheists -which is what it is called when you do not believe in any God- love to rely on science for all of their "proof") has shown us that the world could not have created itself, nor could it have just simply existed forever.

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy is not created or destroyed. It can be changed into different forms, but there is no gain or loss of energy. Thus, the first law of thermodynamics is sometimes called the law of conservation of energy.

It is an established scientific law because there are no known experimental exceptions to suggest that energy can be created or destroyed. It has been studied and analyzed by thousands of scientists for over two hundred years. Observation shows that the universe exists in many forms of energy, such as matter, light, and heat, but there are no known physical conditions whereby energy can be or is created. The obvious question often asked is, "Where did this energy come from?"

According to the first law of thermodynamics, the physical properties of the universe cannot create energy. Yet energy exists.

Accepting that the first law of thermodynamics is the empirically derived conclusion that energy is conserved and establishes the inability of physical properties to create more energy, the logical deduction is that the origin of the universe is best explained by means of supernatural creation. The physical properties of matter are not capable of producing more energy.



To avoid the obvious contradiction with the first law of thermodynamics, some evolutionists contend that energy was not created. They say it always existed.

However, the second law of thermodynamics prevents this from being a valid explanation. It states that there is no natural means to increase the net usable energy in a closed (isolated) system. In other words, the net flow of energy in any closed system ultimately tends to entropy (disorder, chaos).

Entropy is energy in its lowest state and, subsequently, unusable form. It is sometimes described as the disorder or chaos of a system. A closed system refers to the absence of external influences to increase usable energy or to reverse entropy. For example, if a clock is placed inside of a sealed container to prevent someone from winding it up again, the clock can be described as being in a closed system. When the spring inside the clock winds down, there is no more usable energy available to the clock to make it continue ticking. As long as the clock remains in a closed system, it will not tick again. However, if the clock system is opened, and someone winds the clock up, then the clock can begin to tick again.

Because the universe as a whole is a closed system, the net energy flow is ultimately tending to the final form of maximum entropy. It is winding down just like a clock. The final state of entropy is heat, therefore the universe is said to be experiencing "heat death." The sun and the stars are burning out, and organized matter is decaying. Since the universe is winding down and the second law of thermodynamics states that the net usable energy in a closed system cannot be increased by the physical properties of the universe, one is led to the logical conclusion that the initial organized or low entropy state of energy originated supernaturally.

In other words, because the universe is winding down, it must have originally been wound up--supernaturally. It is unnatural and physically impossible for the net useable energy in a closed system to increase.

Because of this information, the theory that the world either created itself or always existed is impossible. Therefore, something supernatural must have created it. Since there is no species on earth that has supernatural powers, then we can conclude that there must be a god of some kind that created the universe.

[kolte]

Because of this information, the theory that the world either created itself or always existed is impossible. Therefore, something supernatural must have created it. Since there is no species on earth that has supernatural powers, then we can conclude that there must be a god of some kind that created the universe.

Or you know the earth was created after a massive explosion in space called the big bang.

[advent_child]

...Or space was created after a giant explosion before space ever existed called the Big Bang, and Earth formed after the creation of a star, which we call the sun, that could provide the neccessary energy to life. The Big Bang theory is dependant upon three things: the universiality of Physical Laws, the Copernican principle, and the cosmological principle. The cosmological principle isn't really a principle; it is an assumtpion that the universe is homogenous and isotropic. Physical laws stem only from what humans observe to be true. The copernican principle simply states that the earth dosen't matter, space continues without us. But physical law is forever incomplete, as we have certainly not observed all that there is to observe, scientific laws are expanding year by year. The cosmological principle is just an assumption. Really the only strong base that the Big Bang theory has is the copernican principe, coupled with the observation that the universe is expanding. It is reasonable to say, that the theory may not be true. Christianity is about a personal relationship with God, and the belief that he gave his only son to save our souls. Jews, Christians and Muslims all pray to one God, and it is clearly evident that they all interpret him VERY diffrently. Everything there is to believe on this planet has to do with man, no matter what religion. I believe in God only because I find peace in him. I respect the religious beliefs of others, and think that a person should choose to believe what they find peace in. My point is, it is all a gamble. No matter what you believe there will always be something to counter it.

[Charlotte]

I heard a fantastic comparision as to the likelihood of the universe being created naturally, by "random chance".
It is as likely for a tornado to blow through a junkyard and leave in its wake a fully operational Boeing 747 as it is for the Earth to have been created as such a perfect habitat for us by random chance.
The way life has been created in such intricate, amazing balance on our planet - for instance, the fact that we are close enough to the Sun to not freeze to death but far enough away so that we don't burn to death, and the fact that we can grow food in our own soil that is suitable for our diets, to name only a few (I'm sure you can think of hundreds more) - seems so incredibly calculated and planned wouldn't you say? Everything about our natural world just screams: "INTELLIGENT DESIGN."

As for the big bang, it is a theory, and a theory alone. and if it is true, who's to say God didn't cause it?

[ReLiEnTkRoX6886]

The Big Bang would be a natural occurence, so it would be impossible (by scientific standards) that this could have brought about the beginning of the earth, unless, as Charlie said, God was behind it. However, I don't believe that God used the Big Bang to create the earth. As Charlie said, it is merely a theory, with plenty of holes, and I think its another way for atheists to try and say that there is no God. As with most of their reasoning, it falls short.

[kolte]

Try not to duble post hun n.n. I'll tell you what, I am so amazed by the earth. Its almost overwhelming the simple perfection and balance. And you know what charlie, your right, who is to say god didnt cause the big bang etc. You don't have to believe it, but you don't disregard it either. I won't ever believe in a god, just like its unlikly you won't ever not believe in god. But you know what? We are both happy, peaceful beings. And thats all that matters right. We can have different ideas, we both still have good intentions right? Thats great!

[TheWizard]

humbug :)

:bigsmile: <--- makes me happy :;

Ok I created a diary for religion. Please continue your discussions. :)

[kolte]

Jesus josh, triple post why dont ya lol

[TheWizard]

Sorry :roll:

[kolte]

Sorry :roll:

I'ts cool, I'm just bitchen for the sake of bitchen. :P But huzzah, I think this topic has been resolved.

[MoveAlong]

Not yet kolte. You MIGHT think it's resolved is because you are one of the only people who will actually post about this and argue. But this time you either desided to back down, you were in a good mood, or you just didn't want to argue.

To me the big band theory is impossible because it was caused out of nothingness. If god created the universe and there was nothing before that, what happened before god? Did he just sit up there and then one day thought "Oh yeah I'm bored let's make a universe of diverse cultures and impossible/infinate possibilities"?

[kolte]

Not yet kolte. You MIGHT think it's resolved is because you are one of the only people who will actually post about this and argue. But this time you either desided to back down, you were in a good mood, or you just didn't want to argue.

To me the big band theory is impossible because it was caused out of nothingness. If god created the universe and there was nothing before that, what happened before god? Did he just sit up there and then one day thought "Oh yeah I'm bored let's make a universe of diverse cultures and impossible/infinate possibilities"?

ah yes, but you see, to me, there is no god. I'm just sayin' that I am happy that a christian won't completly disregard the fact that its a possible way there god created the universe. And I wasnt in a really good mood, or in a non argumentitive mood, I just said what ought to be said, that everyone should respect everyone elses opionion, that we are all peace craving creatures, and as long as were in times of peace, we can learn to get along better.