Stanley "Tookie" Williams

[Lithium]

Williams' Death Doesn't End Debate on Life
Dec 13, 08:34 PM EST
By KIM CURTIS - Associated Press Writer


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- The argument over whether convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams was a man of peace or a death-row con artist raged on after his execution Tuesday, with supporters announcing they would give him a funeral "befitting a statesman."

The 51-year-old founder of the bloody Crips gang died by injection at San Quentin Prison just after midnight for the murders of four people in two 1979 holdups, professing his innocence to the very end, even when an admission of guilt might have helped save his life.

His last, best hope was an act of mercy by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. But the governor was unconvinced by Williams' supporters - several Hollywood stars among them - who argued that he had redeemed himself behind bars with memoirs, children's books and lectures against the dangers of gang life.

After the execution, Williams' supporters vowed to continue his work to discourage youngsters from following in his footsteps, and promised another book from writings he left behind.

"If they think they succeeded by killing him in getting people to forget about him, they have done just the opposite," said Barbara Becnel, his collaborator and most vocal supporter.

Williams declined to make a final statement as he went to his death.

He seemed frustrated by the time it took officials to insert the intravenous lines into the former bodybuilder's muscular arms. At one point, Williams uttered something to the nurse and offered to help, said Steve Ornoski, the warden. About 15 minutes after the process began, he appeared to ask: "You doing that right?"

Williams refused a sedative, said Becnel, one of the witnesses. She said he was "brave and strong and he was everything we believed him to be."

Other witnesses included Rudy Langlais, executive producer of "Redemption: The Stanley Tookie Williams Story," a TV movie starring Jamie Foxx.

Joan Baez, who sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" outside the prison, called the execution "planned, efficient, calculated, antiseptic, cold-blooded murder."

But another one of the witnesses, Lora Owens, stepmother of one of the four people Williams was convicted of killing, told ABC: "I believe it was a just punishment long overdue."

The execution also drew fierce criticism in Europe, where politicians in Schwarzenegger's native Austria called for his name to be removed from a sports stadium in his hometown.

"Schwarzenegger has a lot of muscles, but apparently not much heart," said Julien Dray, spokesman for the Socialist Party in France, where the death penalty was abolished in 1981.

Williams was condemned in 1981 for using a sawed-off shot gun to kill 7-Eleven clerk Albert Owens, 26, in Whittier. Weeks later, he killed Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned.

In denying clemency, Schwarzenegger said Williams had failed to atone for his crimes, and questioned whether claim of redemption was just a ploy. The governor also questioned the effectiveness of Williams' anti-gang rhetoric.

"It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message," Schwarzenegger said. "Williams co-founded the Crips, a notorious street gang that has contributed and continues to contribute to predatory and exploitative violence."

Becnel said she was planning a memorial service "befitting a statesman" for Sunday or Monday in Los Angeles. She said Williams asked to be cremated and have his ashes spread in South Africa. Foxx and rapper Snoop Dogg are expected to attend, she said.

Snoop Dogg, a former Crips member, spoke to Williams by telephone about two hours before his death and talked about the book they planned to write about sharing wisdom among black men - father to son, grandfather to grandson.

"Stanley had the credibility to be heard when speaking out about gang violence," Snoop Dogg said. "We will remember Tookie for what he stood for in the end, and hopefully, we have brought enough light to his story that others can be influenced and inspired to change their ways as well."
_____________________________________________________________

I don't think that he should've been sentenced to the death penalty....it's the easy way out. The government tells us not to kill, yet they do it themselves? I just don't think that the death penalty should be legal. So this will probably end up a double-debate, over the death penalty and Stanley Williams...

I think I just said what I felt about it...

[serial-thrilla]

im all for the death penelty. you kill someone, you dont deserve the governments money to keep you alive. in fact i dont think that they kill prisoners harsh enough anymore. anyone here for bringing back the electric chair and hanging people?

[Whisper]

DONT bring back the chair!
god we have a power shortage as is


Seriously though
I dont like the death penalty much
makes us no better then them

Canada dosent have a death penalty
I hope it stays that way

[Lithium]

im all for the death penelty. you kill someone, you dont deserve the governments money to keep you alive. in fact i dont think that they kill prisoners harsh enough anymore. anyone here for bringing back the electric chair and hanging people?

But some people are falsely convicted, so they died even if they weren't guilty...even if there were DNA found, etc, there are some cases where a person is set up..it does happen.

(Of course, if I was falsely convicted and I would never get out, I would just want to die...but that's me.)

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i dont like payin $55000 a year to support serial killers and rapists. think about it, inmates get paid MORE MONEY THAN TEACHERS and it makes me want to throwup. everyone sentanced to life should go to prison for 1 year and be killed. my education is more important than a murderer gettig pancakes evey morning.

[serial-thrilla]

DONT bring back the chair!
god we have a power shortage as is


Seriously though
I dont like the death penalty much
makes us no better then them

Canada dosent have a death penalty
I hope it stays that way we arent trying to be better then them. were trying to bring justice to the family of the victim. it also saves the government tons of money.

[castillo_98]

I find the death penalty a bit chilling but when you think about it.... what's worse for a grizzly convicted felon? Life in prison, or a quick easy escape like a needle (which probably doesn't even hurt)

Stop spending money on prisons. Felons shouldn't have televisions. Make prison HELL for them. They deserve it. As for the death penalty? Well, I think eternity in a hellish prison would be much more incentive not to committ a crime, than a needle in the arm.

I just watched The Fugitive, so my feelings on the death penalty are a bit mixed at the moment.

[serial-thrilla]

its not about making theyre lives a living hell its about saving tax payers money so it can go somewhere worth while. i dont want to pay for some killers food he or she can starve for all i care.

[Whisper]

i dont like payin $55000 a year to support serial killers and rapists. think about it, inmates get paid MORE MONEY THAN TEACHERS and it makes me want to throwup. everyone sentanced to life should go to prison for 1 year and be killed. my education is more important than a murderer gettig pancakes evey morning.

Your a teen
you dont have taxes
you dont pay a cent


Dont get me wrong
Some people deserve to die
I agree with that
But the problem is
allot of innocent people go to jail
you can't deny that because its true
sooner or later somebody falls through the cracks in our goverment
our system isnt perfect
throwing them in jail is one thing
theres hope that they can be free again when there case is reopened
after new technology comes into play

[castillo_98]

its not about making theyre lives a living hell its about saving tax payers money so it can go somewhere worth while. i dont want to pay for some killers food he or she can starve for all i care.

I never said I was thrilled at the prospect of paying for John Q. Serialkiller's daily meals. In fact, I was pretty much saying the same thing as you.... less money spent on making the prisons lavish.

I'm pretty fair-minded. And I find it horrible that innocent people are convicted. But the prisons are full of known.... bad people. People who make their lives off of killing, stealing and dealing. I couldn't care less if one of the guards "lost" one of those guys.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i dont like payin $55000 a year to support serial killers and rapists. think about it, inmates get paid MORE MONEY THAN TEACHERS and it makes me want to throwup. everyone sentanced to life should go to prison for 1 year and be killed. my education is more important than a murderer gettig pancakes evey morning.

Your a teen
you dont have taxes
you dont pay a cent


WRONG. i go to work, and my income is taxed by the government.

[Whisper]

i dont like payin $55000 a year to support serial killers and rapists. think about it, inmates get paid MORE MONEY THAN TEACHERS and it makes me want to throwup. everyone sentanced to life should go to prison for 1 year and be killed. my education is more important than a murderer gettig pancakes evey morning.

Your a teen
you dont have taxes
you dont pay a cent


WRONG. i go to work, and my income is taxed by the government.


Then stop bitching and pay like the other 300million

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i dont like payin $55000 a year to support serial killers and rapists. think about it, inmates get paid MORE MONEY THAN TEACHERS and it makes me want to throwup. everyone sentanced to life should go to prison for 1 year and be killed. my education is more important than a murderer gettig pancakes evey morning.

Your a teen
you dont have taxes
you dont pay a cent


WRONG. i go to work, and my income is taxed by the government.


Then stop bitching and pay like the other 300million

im not bitching about paying taxes to upkeep freeways, support the elderly, and provide free medicare drugs. im bitching about paying to support a killer

[Dante]

ok the topic on hand is is Stanley Williams....I am proud that the guy turned his life around and wanted to help people, hell he got nominated for the nobel peace prize....I am not for the death penalty I do not believ the government should play God....but whats done is done.

[Whisper]

I think arnolds just a fucking idiot

[redcar]

i am sort of in two minds about this on one hand he did something shocking bad, but death isnt the answer, more like the easy way out. however he is a drain in the economy being alive, and he showed no remorse for what he did, so an eye for an eye. however in general i object to the death penalty.

[Dante]

the thing is he did show remorse for what he did, that is why he turned his life around to help people.

[Lithium]

I read a book he wrote, called "Life in Prison."
It was really good...and I don't think he should've died

[redcar]

he wrote books telling people not to join gangs, but he didnt actually show remorse for the murders he himself committed, and i think thats also the reason Govenor Swarzenegger denied clemency.

[nwshc]

ok the topic on hand is is Stanley Williams....I am proud that the guy turned his life around and wanted to help people, hell he got nominated for the nobel peace prize....I am not for the death penalty I do not believ the government should play God....but whats done is done.
omg GAAAAG
Why are we praising this guy for standing up against gang violence and killing, when he infact STARTED a notoruous gang that has most likely killed numerous people, and he himself killed 4 people. So why do we give credit to this guy?
If he wanted to change the world, he shouldn't have CREATED a gang and KILLED 4 people in the first place.

[serial-thrilla]

ok the topic on hand is is Stanley Williams....I am proud that the guy turned his life around and wanted to help people, hell he got nominated for the nobel peace prize....I am not for the death penalty I do not believ the government should play God....but whats done is done. ok so how about i rape 4 women then speak out against it. then will i be a hero?

[TheWizard]

nope

[nwshc]

No to what?
You need to be alittle more constructive here.

[Whisper]

ok so how about i rape 4 women then speak out against it. then will i be a hero?

Nick he means no to this^

[nwshc]

AHHH, i didn't see matts post

[Dante]

REDEMPTION....he redeemed himself...now I am not saying that he should have been let out of prison because what he did was wrong. But for a prisoner to realize what he did was wrong and turned his life around to HELP others...What is so wrong with that?

and matt with your little "rape" scenario" ofcourse the rapist wouldn't be a hero, because what he did was wrong. I wasn't calling anyone a "hero", I was just acknowleging the fact that Williams turned his life around and promoted peace, something you ignorant assholes know nothing about.

[nwshc]

REDEMPTION....he redeemed himself...
Ah, yes.
Selling 300 childrens books and not admitting to your crime is really redemption

now I am not saying that he should have been let out of prison because what he did was wrong. But for a prisoner to realize what he did was wrong and turned his life around to HELP others...What is so wrong with that?
Everything. You just don't kill 4 people and then speak out against it.

and matt with your little "rape" scenario" ofcourse the rapist wouldn't be a hero, because what he did was wrong.
So if he then spoke out against rapeing after committing 4 rapes, then he is ok?
I wasn't calling anyone a "hero"
basicly, you are.
I was just acknowleging the fact that Williams turned his life around and promoted peace
...After he killed 4 people and started a gang...
something you ignorant assholes know nothing about.
Like you know what everyone does in their private lives.

[Dante]

Nick from what I do know of you, regardless of ur private life....u r an ignorant asshole.

I AM NOT CALLING HIM A HERO DOUCHEBAG... SO DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I Hate the fact that he killed 4 people....Not once did I say he should have been freed from prison...I am against the death penalty, but I think that he should have served a life term.

Ys he killed 4 people and started a gang, BUT guess what, he still turned his life around. Not only did he co-write chidlrens books, he started programs to prevent youth from joining gangs. The same gang that he helped create.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

But for a prisoner to realize what he did was wrong and turned his life .

NOT ONCE, EVER, did he apologize, or even RECOGNIZE, the fact that he had murdered 4 people by shooting them in the head for no reason. the first step to redeaming yourself is to accept that what you did was wrong, which is something he NEVER did. so how can u call himself redeamed if he never even said sorry?

[redcar]

But for a prisoner to realize what he did was wrong and turned his life .

NOT ONCE, EVER, did he apologize, or even RECOGNIZE, the fact that he had murdered 4 people by shooting them in the head for no reason. the first step to redeaming yourself is to accept that what you did was wrong, which is something he NEVER did. so how can u call himself redeamed if he never even said sorry?

i agree totally here, thats why he was denied clemency.

[nwshc]

Nick from what I do know of you, regardless of ur private life....u r an ignorant asshole.

I AM NOT CALLING HIM A HERO DOUCHEBAG

Ouch. I'm going to cry now after those extreamly hurtful words.

BUT guess what, he still turned his life around.
BUT guess what, he still killed 4 people and started a gang.
So for some strange reason, you are proud of the biggest hypocrite in the world.
Not only did he co-write chidlrens books, he started programs to prevent youth from joining gangs. The same gang that he helped create.
None of that matters. You know why? The damage has already been done. Countless kids are going to join and die in that gang he created, and in other gangs. Which is a hell of a lot more kids than would have enroled in his youth groups.

[serial-thrilla]

something you ignorant assholes know nothing about hmm pretty strong words for someone who is defending a murderer.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

hahaha dante = dirka dirka PWND by matt leetsaucer

[Anonymous]

It's funny.
Because maybe a month or two ago I would have said this guy deserves another shot at life.
Now, I see. You ruin someone else's possibilty of achieving thier dreams, what they could have contributed to society, and all the people that killer hurt in the process by murdering that person!
If you are sick enough to ruin soemone else's ONLY chance at life...you deserve to die with them and loose your only chance. I'm not saying that that is ALWAYS the truth, but in a good many cases there is.

Commit to one of Cody's post::

Yes, there are many people that are innocent that go to jail, yet there are WAYYYY more that are guilty. I definantly would rather do the right thing 99% of the time than to do what I disagree with 99% of the time. (I tried making sense of that..It just didn't come out right.)
Anyways, who am I to judge...

[M@//]

something you ignorant assholes know nothing about hmm pretty strong words for someone who is defending a murderer.

yeah thats a little strong :?

[Dante]

something you ignorant assholes know nothing about hmm pretty strong words for someone who is defending a murderer.

How dare you tell me that. In no way shape or form was I defending him. I was akcnowledging how he turned his life around and tried to help people. I Hate the fact that he killed peopl he should of rot in jail for that. But I do not believe he should have died, not just because he turned his life around but because I am against the death peanalty..that is just my views and you should respect that, just like I respect cyrus' or nicks views even though I think it is very ignorant i accept it. I am not going to verbally attack you as you or others might want me to..quite frankly with your statement you are not worth the time and effort

[serial-thrilla]

something you ignorant assholes know nothing about hmm pretty strong words for someone who is defending a murderer.

How dare you tell me that. In no way shape or form was I defending him. I was akcnowledging how he turned his life around and tried to help people. I Hate the fact that he killed peopl he should of rot in jail for that. But I do not believe he should have died, not just because he turned his life around but because I am against the death peanalty..that is just my views and you should respect that, just like I respect cyrus' or nicks views even though I think it is very ignorant i accept it. I am not going to verbally attack you as you or others might want me to..quite frankly with your statement you are not worth the time and effortumm alright? i didnt think you were going to take such offence to what i said but ok.

[Dante]

yes...i took it seriously...I hate murderers...and for you to say i would defend one is ridiculous...but w/e

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

well, matt was right. you ARE defending a murderers "right to life". and it sickens me that you would fight for the rights of murderers. dante your disgusting

[serial-thrilla]

exactly, if a someone killed your mom and dad i hope you'd want them dead or your sick.

[redcar]

exactly, if a someone killed your mom and dad i hope you'd want them dead or your sick.

no if someone killed my mam, i wouldnt want them dead. i would want them suffer, then i would wnat them to spend the rest of their lives in a prision. spending 30, 40, 50 years in an irish prision can be worse than death.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i would definately want them dead. i dunno about how shitty irish prisons are, but american prisons are definately a luxery murderers dont deserve

[redcar]

some prisions dont have toilets in the cells its called a 'piss pot' i've visited them they are not nice places at all.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

some prisions dont have toilets in the cells its called a 'piss pot' i've visited them they are not nice places at all.

hahahhaah sounds like pwnage to me. but really i think prisoners should get 1 meal a day at most, and only bread + water. and it should be loaded with spice so theyre thirsty all the time (y)

[redcar]

lol nice one! but irish prisions are nasty, they are relics form the victorian times, none of this fancy living like they have on tv, and in my opinion its only rite!

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/7548/prisonercage12yf.jpg

thats how big cells should be

[redcar]

quite frankly i agree. i dont not believe in reform, if you do something bad you pay the penalty. thats the only deterant. like if you were to be put in a cell like that you would think twice about stepping foot out of line.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i know really. the harsher prison is, the more unlikely it is that people will want to commit a crime to send them there

[M@//]

Prisons are almost as nice as a really cheap motel... and they're free... even if they were crappy victims, a murderer should be killed, but I also think prisons should be made crappier. I'm for stronger security than giving these bastards plumbing ^_^.

i know..exactly

[nwshc]

pft, they should make the inmates do back breaking labor. like smashing rocks in 100 degree heat

[serial-thrilla]

or we could make the convicted murderers fight each other barehand to the death and the winner gets a life in jail.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

hahahahaha thats the greatest thing i ever heard

[Cap'nCrunch]

Well, that was a bummer that his gang didn't reach what they were aiming for, but Tookie fucked up when he killed those four people. He was a pretty heartless bastard.

[WelshLad]

british prisons are better than 3* hotels. Theyre clean, tvs room, pool tables etc. How many have you have watched the sitcom Bad Girls on ITV1?
Russian and Turkish Prisons are somewhere I definately wouldn't wanna end up.

[redcar]

bad girls was great and they live in luxury..........not the case in ireland. mountjoy, very ironically named, is a relic form the victorian era.

[Nexdeus]

if tookie really repented for his sins hes with god or if he was just a heartless basterd who tryd to get sympathy from idiots i think he should fry :blowup: :evil2: :guillotine: :tv: