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NewLeafsFan
February 25th, 2018, 04:44 PM
There seems to be a lot of inappropriate statements towards Muslims on this site. As an attempt to change that, I though we should have a place where everyone can ask questions and educate ourselves on any possible misconceptions.

While I am not Muslim, I have taken several World Religions courses in both high school and university so I will do my best to answer any questions.

rioo
February 25th, 2018, 08:11 PM
Do you ever visiting mosque?

NewLeafsFan
February 25th, 2018, 11:32 PM
Do you ever visiting mosque?

No, I have never visited a mosque.

lliam
February 25th, 2018, 11:38 PM
There may be the one or other inappropriate post, but I have not had get the feeling yet that the mood in the forum is anti-Islamic.

So, regardless of my impression, what are the significant differences between Islam and Christianity?

NewLeafsFan
February 26th, 2018, 12:35 AM
There may be the one or other inappropriate post, but I have not had get the feeling yet that the mood in the forum is anti-Islamic.

So, regardless of my impression, what are the significant differences between Islam and Christianity?

I really appreciate that you are taking an interest despite the fact that you have yet to witnessed Islamophobia as a problem in the forums.

I think that it is more appropriate to start off with the similarities because those are what is most commonly overlooked. Both are western religions, worship a single God, and have historical significance to Jerusalem. Both also shared many of their roots and Judaism.

Now the differences. Muslims do not believe that they are created in the image of God and they do not believe that their God is male or female but neither. Islam is also much younger than Christianity. While Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God, Muslims like Jews, believe that Jesus was a prophet.

The most important human figure in Islam is Muhammad, who they believe to be the last prophet from God. Islam is also he worlds fastest growing religion.

PlasmaHam
February 26th, 2018, 12:50 AM
No offense, but I find this highly suspect given that you are not a Muslim, nor have demonstrated much understanding of the religion beyond that of the average person. And I'm still not sure of this massive ignorance of Islam you claim exists on the forum.



So, regardless of my impression, what are the significant differences between Islam and Christianity?

I'll try to answer this from a Christian perspective, but I still want the OP to answer it in his own way too.

God:
In Christianity, God is three individuals in one being: Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. All three are 'God', just different manifestations of him. God is perfect in all ways, and has a universal unconditional love for all humans.

In Islam, God is a singular being, typically called Allah. They believe that Jesus Christ was simply a prophet, not a manifestation of God, and that the Holy Spirit is simply Allah, not a separate entity. Allah is generally good, but isn't perfect and doesn't have an unconditional love for all humans.

Salvation:
In Christianity, salvation is essentially guaranteed as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your savior from sins. Some denominations also add in good works as a requirement for salvation, but even then unless you are a terrible person you are basically guaranteed a spot in Heaven.

In Islam, salvation has no guarantees. To gain salvation, you must gain favor with Allah by following the Quran and it's principles throughout your life. Certain acts, like pilgrimage or martyrdom, will increase your favor with Allah, though again it is fully up to Allah's personal favor.

Morality and Human Nature:
In Christianity, humans are born with a "sin nature" which means from the moment of conception we have a natural tendency to want to sin. As such the Christian must always strive to overcome their own nature, and allow God to guide them into doing the right thing. In terms of morality, it can be boiled down to the idea that the ends do not justify the means, even if the ends supports Christianity in some way.

In Islam, humans are born pure; sin isn't a natural inherited trait but a learned one. As such, the Muslim must always strive to keep sin out, and allow the natural pure nature of humanity to guide them to do the right thing. In terms of morality, Muslims are more lenient on the ends justifying the means, especially if such ends somehow spreads Islam.

Other:
Christians believe that the ideal person was Jesus Christ, while Muslims believe the ideal person was Mohammad.

Christians believe that the the Old Testament (the Jewish scriptures) are true, and that Christianity is a natural successor of Judaism. Muslims believe that the Old and New Testaments was originally true, but that over the centuries Christians and Jews have twisted them away from their Muslim roots.

Christianity has very few rules or laws regarding your everyday life, besides following the example of Jesus Christ. Islam is similar to Judaism as it has many laws detailing aspects of your life, ranging from clothing, food, ritual prayer, and many different spiritual holidays. Sharia law is the name of it, and Muslims practice it to varying degrees.

Muslims like Jews, believe that Jesus was a prophet. Most Jews don't see Jesus as a prophet. Some see him as a good man, sure, but very few see him as anyone of religious importance. I know some Jews who are outright dismissive of Jesus, claiming he was just a myth or was just a crazy-man who spouted nonsense. Overall, the Jewish opinion on Jesus has always leaned negatively

whoisme
February 26th, 2018, 09:17 AM
In Islam, God is a singular being, typically called Allah. They believe that Jesus Christ was simply a prophet, not a manifestation of God, and that the Holy Spirit is simply Allah, not a separate entity. Allah is generally good, but isn't perfect and doesn't have an unconditional love for all humans.
Muslims believe the Holy Spirit is an angel and they believe God is perfect.

While Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God, Muslims like Jews, believe that Jesus was a prophet.

Jews didn't believe in Prophet Jesus. Only Muslims believe in the 3 Prophets: Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

Posts merged. Please edit your first post next time. ~Jinglebottom

rioo
February 26th, 2018, 01:13 PM
Do you think people from other religion can not go visiting mosque ?

ShineintheDark
February 27th, 2018, 03:04 PM
I doon't see why someone would be turned away from visiting the mosque within reason. Schools visit them all the time here in the UK with no hitches.

Atlantis
February 27th, 2018, 03:41 PM
Do you think people from other religion can not go visiting mosque ?

I doon't see why someone would be turned away from visiting the mosque within reason. Schools visit them all the time here in the UK with no hitches.

Yeah, I've been to a mosque before and I'm a Catholic. As long as you respect their rules (taking your shoes off is one of them I believe, there are probably lots more) then you should be fine.

JustMyHumbleOpinion
February 27th, 2018, 05:22 PM
My question to Muslims (and most religious people in general) is do you do everything your holy book tells you to do?
Yes there is peaceful verses in the Quran, but it doesn't mean you can just turn your back to lovely and modern verses like this:

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” 47:4
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means." 4:34

If you met me in real life would you smite my neck?

mattsmith48
February 27th, 2018, 08:31 PM
I doon't see why someone would be turned away from visiting the mosque within reason. Schools visit them all the time here in the UK with no hitches.

Why would a school visit a mosque?

NewLeafsFan
February 28th, 2018, 12:53 AM
No offense, but I find this highly suspect given that you are not a Muslim, nor have demonstrated much understanding of the religion beyond that of the average person. And I'm still not sure of this massive ignorance of Islam you claim exists on the forum.



I'll try to answer this from a Christian perspective, but I still want the OP to answer it in his own way too.

God:
In Christianity, God is three individuals in one being: Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. All three are 'God', just different manifestations of him. God is perfect in all ways, and has a universal unconditional love for all humans.

In Islam, God is a singular being, typically called Allah. They believe that Jesus Christ was simply a prophet, not a manifestation of God, and that the Holy Spirit is simply Allah, not a separate entity. Allah is generally good, but isn't perfect and doesn't have an unconditional love for all humans.

Salvation:
In Christianity, salvation is essentially guaranteed as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your savior from sins. Some denominations also add in good works as a requirement for salvation, but even then unless you are a terrible person you are basically guaranteed a spot in Heaven.

In Islam, salvation has no guarantees. To gain salvation, you must gain favor with Allah by following the Quran and it's principles throughout your life. Certain acts, like pilgrimage or martyrdom, will increase your favor with Allah, though again it is fully up to Allah's personal favor.

Morality and Human Nature:
In Christianity, humans are born with a "sin nature" which means from the moment of conception we have a natural tendency to want to sin. As such the Christian must always strive to overcome their own nature, and allow God to guide them into doing the right thing. In terms of morality, it can be boiled down to the idea that the ends do not justify the means, even if the ends supports Christianity in some way.

In Islam, humans are born pure; sin isn't a natural inherited trait but a learned one. As such, the Muslim must always strive to keep sin out, and allow the natural pure nature of humanity to guide them to do the right thing. In terms of morality, Muslims are more lenient on the ends justifying the means, especially if such ends somehow spreads Islam.

Other:
Christians believe that the ideal person was Jesus Christ, while Muslims believe the ideal person was Mohammad.

Christians believe that the the Old Testament (the Jewish scriptures) are true, and that Christianity is a natural successor of Judaism. Muslims believe that the Old and New Testaments was originally true, but that over the centuries Christians and Jews have twisted them away from their Muslim roots.

Christianity has very few rules or laws regarding your everyday life, besides following the example of Jesus Christ. Islam is similar to Judaism as it has many laws detailing aspects of your life, ranging from clothing, food, ritual prayer, and many different spiritual holidays. Sharia law is the name of it, and Muslims practice it to varying degrees.

Most Jews don't see Jesus as a prophet. Some see him as a good man, sure, but very few see him as anyone of religious importance. I know some Jews who are outright dismissive of Jesus, claiming he was just a myth or was just a crazy-man who spouted nonsense. Overall, the Jewish opinion on Jesus has always leaned negatively

I am disappointed that so many people feel that I might not be fit to answer the questions, but I respect your scepticism. If there is an Islamic member that would like to take over answering questions, I would welcome them to do so. As I have already stated, I will answer everyone's questions to the best of my abilities. I have no ulterior motives. I was just hoping to end some of the negative comments and attitudes surrounding Islam.

Just to elaborate on something that you said about Christianity, you said that Christianity guarantees salvation provided that you believe in God. This is only true for some Christians. Others believe that you just need to be a good person and several more believe you must believe and not commit any mortal sins.

Do you think people from other religion can not go visiting mosque ?

No, I think that anyone can tour a mosque provided that they follow the rules. Personally, I would welcome the opportunity provided I didn't interrupt any Islamic religious event.

My question to Muslims (and most religious people in general) is do you do everything your holy book tells you to do?
Yes there is peaceful verses in the Quran, but it doesn't mean you can just turn your back to lovely and modern verses like this:

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” 47:4
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means." 4:34

If you met me in real life would you smite my neck?

This is where interpretation is important. Every Holy book that I know of has some less pleasant ideas. For example, the bible tells stories of stoning prostitutes and not eating pork. It doesn't mean that Christians go downtown looking for possible hookers to stone.

Any Muslim that has a good understanding of there religion would promote through peace and love. Just because of a few terrorists that believe otherwise does not mean that most Muslims do. Avoiding Muslims because you think they all want to kill you would be like throwing your baby out with the bath water.

rioo
February 28th, 2018, 10:34 AM
My question to Muslims (and most religious people in general) is do you do everything your holy book tells you to do?
Yes there is peaceful verses in the Quran, but it doesn't mean you can just turn your back to lovely and modern verses like this:

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” 47:4
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means." 4:34

If you met me in real life would you smite my neck?
Maybe you can provide link for your source. I know a guy on VT here who is native Arabic speaker maybe he can help you.

JustMyHumbleOpinion
February 28th, 2018, 12:36 PM
Maybe you can provide link for your source. I know a guy on VT here who is native Arabic speaker maybe he can help you.
I mainly have read verses online, and my friend also has a translated version.
Both are translations so i guess it could just be poor translation but that could apply honestly to the blissful sounding verses too.



This is where interpretation is important. Every Holy book that I know of has some less pleasant ideas. For example, the bible tells stories of stoning prostitutes and not eating pork. It doesn't mean that Christians go downtown looking for possible hookers to stone.

Any Muslim that has a good understanding of there religion would promote through peace and love. Just because of a few terrorists that believe otherwise does not mean that most Muslims do. Avoiding Muslims because you think they all want to kill you would be like throwing your baby out with the bath water.





Yes i'm aware of this, i personally believe that Christianity is just as bad Islam.

I do think it applies to most religions in that they kind of cherry pick the verses that they like and ignore the ones have violence and completely outdated ideas..

I just find it amusing how some people can take verses or quotes from their holy book so seriously and just completely turn their back on the verse next to it.

I obviously do not think all Muslims or Christians are going to act out the violent verses from their book.
Actually religion does some great for some people in giving people inner peace.
But no wonder we get so much terrorism when some passages in these books are violent to their core.

Snowfox
February 28th, 2018, 01:12 PM
Why would a school visit a mosque?

UK is turning forcefully christian children to muslims. Mayor of London is Muslim Terrorist and Most major cities in UK are ISIS strongholds

mattsmith48
February 28th, 2018, 01:39 PM
UK is turning forcefully christian children to muslims. Mayor of London is Muslim Terrorist and Most major cities in UK are ISIS strongholds

I’m asking a serious question you obviously don’t know the answer so please don’t spread you bullshit conspiracy theories here. Thank you :)

RattleHead
February 28th, 2018, 01:46 PM
I’m asking a serious question you obviously don’t know the answer so please don’t spread you bullshit conspiracy theories here. Thank you :)
he's not far off though:https://www.dailywire.com/news/16770/flashback-muslim-mayor-london-told-citizens-get-michael-qazvini

mattsmith48
February 28th, 2018, 02:04 PM
he's not far off though:https://www.dailywire.com/news/16770/flashback-muslim-mayor-london-told-citizens-get-michael-qazvini

That seem to be just a couple of quotes taken out of context doesn’t really prove anything

RattleHead
February 28th, 2018, 02:20 PM
That seem to be just a couple of quotes taken out of context doesn’t really prove anything
you cannot deny that he said that terror attacks are "part and parcel of life in a big city" in a speech about two at the time recant terror attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I03IKr2TWDM

NewLeafsFan
February 28th, 2018, 02:32 PM
UK is turning forcefully christian children to muslims. Mayor of London is Muslim Terrorist and Most major cities in UK are ISIS strongholds

Yes and since every good muslim follows example of Muhammad they have obligation to be pedophiles and warlords. At least if you are true believer.

Christians are not being forced to go to Mosques. They are simply being offered an opportunity to be educated on different religions. Which is something that your country must lack. The mayor of London is a reasonably successful politician that has different beliefs than you. I'm sorry that you find it so upsetting that you have turned it into rumours.

Muslim extremists may perform sexual crimes. So could anybody in any religion. Do you go around stoning prostitutes because you're a Christian? I'm willing to guess that you don't but for some reason you are insisting that Muslims follow even the bad of their history.

Please do not respond again unless you have a major attitude adjustment. AS I have clearly stated, this is about education and acceptance. Not an opportunity for you to post lies and discriminate.

I mainly have read verses online, and my friend also has a translated version.
Both are translations so i guess it could just be poor translation but that could apply honestly to the blissful sounding verses too.

Yes i'm aware of this, i personally believe that Christianity is just as bad Islam.

I do think it applies to most religions in that they kind of cherry pick the verses that they like and ignore the ones have violence and completely outdated ideas..

I just find it amusing how some people can take verses or quotes from their holy book so seriously and just completely turn their back on the verse next to it.

I obviously do not think all Muslims or Christians are going to act out the violent verses from their book.
Actually religion does some great for some people in giving people inner peace.
But no wonder we get so much terrorism when some passages in these books are violent to their core.

I'm sorry that you have such a negative attitude towards religion but I appreciate that you don't discriminate against any particular religion like others here clearly do.

Translations are not seen as a good thing in Islam. They prefer to learn the language so that they can study its original form.

As stated above, I'm very open so somebody else answering questions on Islam. I think it would be very beneficial as some hypocrites likely wouldn't offend somebody to their face.

RattleHead
February 28th, 2018, 02:40 PM
I'm sorry that you have such a negative attitude towards religion but I appreciate that you don't discriminate against any particular religion like others here clearly do.
unlike Christianity or catholicism Islam has yet to see its own enlightenment.

mattsmith48
February 28th, 2018, 03:05 PM
you cannot deny that he said that terror attacks are "part and parcel of life in a big city" in a speech about two at the time recant terror attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I03IKr2TWDM

And that proves he’s a terrorist how exactly?

Actually while Christianity was in its crazy violent period the Muslim world was a more enlightened place, and even somewhat inclusive and open to other religion and non-believers, then a few crazy religious leaders ruined everything and the roles kinda switched.

whoisme
February 28th, 2018, 03:05 PM
Yes there is peaceful verses in the Quran, but it doesn't mean you can just turn your back to lovely and modern verses like this:

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” 47:4
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means." 4:34

It is important to study passages in the Quran and to know the context. Context has to do with four principles: literal meaning (what the words say), the historical setting – the event(s) in which the words were used, who were the words addressed to and how those words were understood at that time, the grammatical structure – of the passage and synthesis – comparing it with other passages in the Quran for a fuller meaning.

Regarding the first ayah,
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers in battle, smite at their necks.... Until the war lays down its burdens.
http://comparativreligion.blogspot.com/2012/11/quran-474-smite-their-necks.html

Taking ayat out of context leads to all kind of errors and misunderstandings.

RattleHead
February 28th, 2018, 03:12 PM
And that proves he’s a terrorist how exactly?



Actually while Christianity was in its crazy violent period the Muslim world was a more enlightened place, and even somewhat inclusive and open to other religion and non-believers, then a few crazy religious leaders ruined everything and the roles kinda switched.i never said he was a terrorist i said that that accusation wouldn't be to far off the mark.

prove it.

Stronk Serb
February 28th, 2018, 03:59 PM
Why would a school visit a mosque?

Yeah, this starts the whole secularism slippery slope. Then the school has to visit every place of worship. Leave religion out of schools. Study it in sociology or history, but nothing else.

I dislike hardcore Islam, as practiced in some Middle-Eastern countries and Islam mixed with state policies. I guess it is just a phase of barbaric behavior of some followers, just like Christianity had it's phase. I met some moderate Turkish Muslims in my travels around Europe and they are okay fellows.

Elysium
February 28th, 2018, 05:24 PM
Many posts have been deleted or edited. I would've sent PMs to go into more detail, but there were too many posts modified to do so. If you have questions, please PM me or another staff member and I'd be happy to explain why this was done.

As a blanket statement, please remember that we're trying to civilly and kindly discuss beliefs that are very personal and meaningful to a lot of people. Please try to keep this in mind, whether or not it holds any significance for you. If this kind of inconsiderate behavior continues, this thread will be locked and warnings doled out to any offenders.

mattsmith48
February 28th, 2018, 07:07 PM
i never said he was a terrorist i said that that accusation wouldn't be to far off the mark.

Still doesn't prove anything

prove it.

Not the best source, but still better than the article you posted earlier. Enjoy :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

RattleHead
February 28th, 2018, 07:19 PM
Still doesn't prove anything



Not the best source, but still better than the article you posted earlier. Enjoy :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Ageactually its bad form to quote wikipida but i accept

DriveAlive
February 28th, 2018, 11:41 PM
Until there are major changes to the Islamic faith regarding their treatment of women, gays, nonbelievers, etc. as there was with Christianity, Islam should be treated as the primitive and backwards religion that it is. I am not saying that all or even most Muslims are bad. I am saying that the religion has stagnated in modernization and should not be given the same acceptance as more progressive faiths.

NewLeafsFan
March 1st, 2018, 12:52 AM
Still doesn't prove anything



Not the best source, but still better than the article you posted earlier. Enjoy :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

actually its bad form to quote wikipida but i accept

You guys are going about this all wrong. Do not try to prove that this ridiculous allegations are false. People are innocent until proven guilty. If someone wants to try to start rumours they can be the one that tries to prove it. But don't do it here. This is about ending Islamophobia through education. No debating about who can come out with the most outlandish lies. If you want to debate the Muslim mayor, do so in your own thread.

Until there are major changes to the Islamic faith regarding their treatment of women, gays, nonbelievers, etc. as there was with Christianity, Islam should be treated as the primitive and backwards religion that it is. I am not saying that all or even most Muslims are bad. I am saying that the religion has stagnated in modernization and should not be given the same acceptance as more progressive faiths.

Personally, I believe that every religion could benefit from modernization. But it is important not to confuse culture with religion. Most of the examples that you have used are considered to be cultural issues. That is why Muslim women in North America and Europe have more rights here than in the Middle East. They do not restrict themselves because of their religion, the laws of the places where many Muslims live restrict them.

Plz do not send me quotes about this from about this being religion. Sometimes the two feed off of eachother in a negative way.

Uniquemind
March 1st, 2018, 12:53 AM
So here’s a question.

Where does Islam justify it was indeed Gabriel who made contact with Mohammad, and not Satan posing as an angel of light, to influence Mohammad to start the Islamic faith?

Christianity is known to have occurred before Islam, and it also has no reference to the concept of “the seal of the prophets” either. That seems to have been added in. End time Christian scripture also warns of a being or multiple anti-Christ’s who can appear as angels of light, and Mohammad’s divine experience seems to also potentially be supernatural but also a deception warned of by the earlier Christian faith that predated it.

Christianity does state that a false religion is to be made by an anti-Christ, and part of the reason Christianity and Islam do not mix, is because the end times prophecies of each respective faith have a reciprocal relationship with who to acknowledge as “Messiah “.

NewLeafsFan
March 1st, 2018, 12:59 AM
So here’s a question.

Where does Islam justify it was indeed Gabriel who made contact with Mohammad, and not Satan posing as an angel of light, to influence Mohammad to start the Islamic faith?

Christianity is known to have occurred before Islam, and it also has no reference to the concept of “the seal of the prophets” either. That seems to have been added in.

Christianity does state that a false religion is to be made by an anti-Christ, and part of the reason Christianity and Islam do not mix, is because the end times prophecies of each respective faith have a reciprocal relationship with who to acknowledge as “Messiah “.

Islam does not have to justify how it does or doesn't fit into the plans of other religions. It would not cross the mind of a Muslim to believe that Gabriel was a vision from the devil. The idea that it is biblical is debatable. I guess Muslims could ask Christians why we think Jesus isn't evil. To a Muslim it would be a similar idea.

Uniquemind
March 1st, 2018, 01:56 AM
Islam does not have to justify how it does or doesn't fit into the plans of other religions. It would not cross the mind of a Muslim to believe that Gabriel was a vision from the devil. The idea that it is biblical is debatable. I guess Muslims could ask Christians why we think Jesus isn't evil. To a Muslim it would be a similar idea.

Which is fine, but that’s the point of such discussions to get people to temporarily think from another’s perspective without taking offense, to see whose faith has more consistency with respect to foundational roots in regards to historical time.


If I got someone to think outside their dogmatic views of a safe-space religious world then I’ve done my part to contribute to the discussion here.

A secure person doesn’t mind people attacking their faith.

liberal raj
March 1st, 2018, 02:20 AM
Like any other abrahamic religions Islam also manifests God as omnipotent personality who created the cosmos and is controlling it.In the last day God will judge us for whatever we did.But God doesn't have an eternal saturation.My simple question,
1. if god creates and controls everything then how can he allow evil in the cosmos?
2. if you say evil is created by devil then why God created devil or why can't he control devil?is not he omnipotent?
3. Why God is always mentioned to be "HE" not "SHE" ? is not it misogynistic?
4. people who don't support Islam are called Kaafir.It's mentioned in the Quran a thousands time that Kaafirs have to be converted to islam or killed.what kind of discrimination is this?
5. If you are virtuous after death you will get 72 beautiful women in heaven for your entertainment.So women are only for men's pleasure huh???

liberal raj
March 1st, 2018, 02:27 AM
So here’s a question.

Where does Islam justify it was indeed Gabriel who made contact with Mohammad, and not Satan posing as an angel of light, to influence Mohammad to start the Islamic faith?

Christianity is known to have occurred before Islam, and it also has no reference to the concept of “the seal of the prophets” either. That seems to have been added in. End time Christian scripture also warns of a being or multiple anti-Christ’s who can appear as angels of light, and Mohammad’s divine experience seems to also potentially be supernatural but also a deception warned of by the earlier Christian faith that predated it.

Christianity does state that a false religion is to be made by an anti-Christ, and part of the reason Christianity and Islam do not mix, is because the end times prophecies of each respective faith have a reciprocal relationship with who to acknowledge as “Messiah “.
islam,christianity or judaism share their concept over the manifestation of god,creation of the universe in the hand of god(not genesys though),omnipotency of god and many more....but during ages they have acquired some differences and have started debating but after all both of them treat human to be weak and they say to follow god and the prophets withou asking any questions,like sheeps follow the shepherd without raising any doubt.

whoisme
March 1st, 2018, 04:28 AM
Which is fine, but that’s the point of such discussions to get people to temporarily think from another’s perspective without taking offense, to see whose faith has more consistency with respect to foundational roots in regards to historical time.


If I got someone to think outside their dogmatic views of a safe-space religious world then I’ve done my part to contribute to the discussion here.

A secure person doesn’t mind people attacking their faith.
According to Muslims' view: Islam is the worship of God alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the Creator of all things, is God's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. That's not the teachings of the devil.

Uniquemind
March 1st, 2018, 05:10 AM
According to Muslims' view: Islam is the worship of God alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the Creator of all things, is God's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. That's not the teachings of the devil.

islam,christianity or judaism share their concept over the manifestation of god,creation of the universe in the hand of god(not genesys though),omnipotency of god and many more....but during ages they have acquired some differences and have started debating but after all both of them treat human to be weak and they say to follow god and the prophets withou asking any questions,like sheeps follow the shepherd without raising any doubt.



You see that’s interesting, because I don’t see true Christianity that way, as a faith that wants blind obedience, without critical thinking believers that don’t test the faith and discern good fruits and bad fruits per action.

So in some ways when Islam criticizes Christianity, I understand why they are pointing out flaws in the way Christianity is practiced, but I feel that happens due to ignorant or blind pastors and Catholic fathers.

I feel Islam criticized a strawman representation of Christianity.

Snowfox
March 1st, 2018, 10:34 AM
Yeah, this starts the whole secularism slippery slope. Then the school has to visit every place of worship. Leave religion out of schools. Study it in sociology or history, but nothing else.

I dislike hardcore Islam, as practiced in some Middle-Eastern countries and Islam mixed with state policies. I guess it is just a phase of barbaric behavior of some followers, just like Christianity had it's phase. I met some moderate Turkish Muslims in my travels around Europe and they are okay fellows.

How about hard core Islam that is present in Bosnia.

mattsmith48
March 1st, 2018, 12:20 PM
Until there are major changes to the Islamic faith regarding their treatment of women, gays, nonbelievers, etc. as there was with Christianity, Islam should be treated as the primitive and backwards religion that it is. I am not saying that all or even most Muslims are bad. I am saying that the religion has stagnated in modernization and should not be given the same acceptance as more progressive faiths.

What is a progressive faith to you? Not killing people over it?

PlasmaHam
March 1st, 2018, 12:59 PM
Islam does not have to justify how it does or doesn't fit into the plans of other religions. It would not cross the mind of a Muslim to believe that Gabriel was a vision from the devil. The idea that it is biblical is debatable. I guess Muslims could ask Christians why we think Jesus isn't evil. To a Muslim it would be a similar idea.
Of course, there are some pretty large differences between Jesus and Muhammed. For one, even Muslims will agree that Jesus was a sinless person. As for Muhammed, well, even the most devout Muslims is hard-pressed to account for the various questionable actions of his, ranging from open-ended calls to violence, to underage polygamy, to slavery, to rage issues, to repeated self-contradiction, and various others. From what I've seen an increasing number of Muslims are dropping the doctrine of Mohammed's perfection because there is so much evidence against it.

And of course the doctrines and lives of each are vastly different. Jesus was a humble man who preached a doctrine of non-violence, forgiveness, and putting others first, all the while being oppressed by unbelievers, and eventually killed by them, but even then he had no ill will towards them. His followers followed a similar route for centuries after his death, peacefully enduring persecution just so they can spread the Gospel. Muhammed was an illiterate man who claimed to have had an experience on a mountain with a (fallen?) angel, and from there decides to start a new religion. When faced with persecution, we waged war on those who hated them, and was alleged to even have massacred them. When he died from fever, his direct followers and disciples begun a massive expansion of Islam via military force, which continued for over a thousand years and decimated the once thriving Eastern Church.

So here’s a question.

Where does Islam justify it was indeed Gabriel who made contact with Mohammad, and not Satan posing as an angel of light, to influence Mohammad to start the Islamic faith?

Christianity is known to have occurred before Islam, and it also has no reference to the concept of “the seal of the prophets” either. That seems to have been added in. End time Christian scripture also warns of a being or multiple anti-Christ’s who can appear as angels of light, and Mohammad’s divine experience seems to also potentially be supernatural but also a deception warned of by the earlier Christian faith that predated it.

Christianity does state that a false religion is to be made by an anti-Christ, and part of the reason Christianity and Islam do not mix, is because the end times prophecies of each respective faith have a reciprocal relationship with who to acknowledge as “Messiah “.
The Bible and Jesus repeatedly brings up that there will be false prophets that will attempt to destroy and subjugate Christianity, especially in the end times. Many Christians see Islam as that false religion, founded by a false prophet, arguably founded by Satan in the guise of Gabriel. Interestingly, while looking this up, there is apparently a Bible verse regarding this exact scenario of an angel giving knowledge to men that contradicts what the Bible teaches:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
In addition, Satan has been repeatedly described in the Bible as someone who appears beautiful, and who will pretend to be a pure angel if it will serve his ends. Those who aren't familiar with Christianity probably don't realize that Satan's actual form isn't that of a stereotypical devil, but instead that of the most beautiful and magnificent angel. His own pride in his magnificence was part of the reason for his fall.

The end time prophecies of Islam are somewhat familiar to Christianity, though isn't given at nearly the same level. But the basic gist of it is that Isa (the Muslim Jesus) will return to the Earth and via power from Allah lead an army of Muslims against the Ad-Dajjal (anti-Christ) who tricks the Jews, Christians, and other nonbelievers into believing he is the Messiah. Ad-Dajjal will raise an army of these non-believers, and with Satan on his side his armies will clash with Isa's in a massive battle that eventually leaves him defeated, and thus results in a Islamic paradise.

From a Christian perspective, it is remarkably easy to say that Isa is actually the Anti-Christ, and that Ad-Dajjal is actually Jesus. After all, Jesus, just like Ad-Dajjal, will lead an army consisting of Jews and Christians into a massive battle against the Anti-Christ and his army of non-Christians, just like Isa and his army of Muslims. It honestly isn't a stretch to assume that.

According to Muslims' view: Islam is the worship of God alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the Creator of all things, is God's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. That's not the teachings of the devil.
Um, that actually is the devil's teaching. Satan wants nothing less than your entire devotion and worship towards him. His entire goal is to get you to stop worshiping God, and start worshiping him. Satan would like nothing less that an entire religion devoted to him, especially if said religion would persecute God's followers and people (Jews and Christians).

NewLeafsFan
March 1st, 2018, 03:14 PM
Like any other abrahamic religions Islam also manifests God as omnipotent personality who created the cosmos and is controlling it.In the last day God will judge us for whatever we did.But God doesn't have an eternal saturation.My simple question,
1. if god creates and controls everything then how can he allow evil in the cosmos?
2. if you say evil is created by devil then why God created devil or why can't he control devil?is not he omnipotent?
3. Why God is always mentioned to be "HE" not "SHE" ? is not it misogynistic?
4. people who don't support Islam are called Kaafir.It's mentioned in the Quran a thousands time that Kaafirs have to be converted to islam or killed.what kind of discrimination is this?
5. If you are virtuous after death you will get 72 beautiful women in heaven for your entertainment.So women are only for men's pleasure huh???

It is not mentioned 1000 times that Kaafirs should be converted or killed. That is a gross exaggeration that only hurts our opinion of your response and is not productive in extinguishing Islamophobia through education.

As far as the 72 virgins goes, to me it sounds like something that men would want in their afterlife. Do not assume that the virgins are females that were once on earth and died. It simply acknowledges that females are entertaining to males. It does not say that that is all that they are. That was just an assumption.

How about hard core Islam that is present in Bosnia.

When you start out by using words like "hardcore" we know that you are using an extreme example. We all know that Islamic terrorist exist. Pointing that out isn't helpful. What is helpful is to understand that very few people take things too far and that we can't judge an entire religion by just looking at the worst apples in the bag.

Of course, there are some pretty large differences between Jesus and Muhammed. For one, even Muslims will agree that Jesus was a sinless person. As for Muhammed, well, even the most devout Muslims is hard-pressed to account for the various questionable actions of his, ranging from open-ended calls to violence, to underage polygamy, to slavery, to rage issues, to repeated self-contradiction, and various others. From what I've seen an increasing number of Muslims are dropping the doctrine of Mohammed's perfection because there is so much evidence against it.

And of course the doctrines and lives of each are vastly different. Jesus was a humble man who preached a doctrine of non-violence, forgiveness, and putting others first, all the while being oppressed by unbelievers, and eventually killed by them, but even then he had no ill will towards them. His followers followed a similar route for centuries after his death, peacefully enduring persecution just so they can spread the Gospel. Muhammed was an illiterate man who claimed to have had an experience on a mountain with a (fallen?) angel, and from there decides to start a new religion. When faced with persecution, we waged war on those who hated them, and was alleged to even have massacred them. When he died from fever, his direct followers and disciples begun a massive expansion of Islam via military force, which continued for over a thousand years and decimated the once thriving Eastern Church.


The Bible and Jesus repeatedly brings up that there will be false prophets that will attempt to destroy and subjugate Christianity, especially in the end times. Many Christians see Islam as that false religion, founded by a false prophet, arguably founded by Satan in the guise of Gabriel. Interestingly, while looking this up, there is apparently a Bible verse regarding this exact scenario of an angel giving knowledge to men that contradicts what the Bible teaches:

In addition, Satan has been repeatedly described in the Bible as someone who appears beautiful, and who will pretend to be a pure angel if it will serve his ends. Those who aren't familiar with Christianity probably don't realize that Satan's actual form isn't that of a stereotypical devil, but instead that of the most beautiful and magnificent angel. His own pride in his magnificence was part of the reason for his fall.

The end time prophecies of Islam are somewhat familiar to Christianity, though isn't given at nearly the same level. But the basic gist of it is that Isa (the Muslim Jesus) will return to the Earth and via power from Allah lead an army of Muslims against the Ad-Dajjal (anti-Christ) who tricks the Jews, Christians, and other nonbelievers into believing he is the Messiah. Ad-Dajjal will raise an army of these non-believers, and with Satan on his side his armies will clash with Isa's in a massive battle that eventually leaves him defeated, and thus results in a Islamic paradise.

From a Christian perspective, it is remarkably easy to say that Isa is actually the Anti-Christ, and that Ad-Dajjal is actually Jesus. After all, Jesus, just like Ad-Dajjal, will lead an army consisting of Jews and Christians into a massive battle against the Anti-Christ and his army of non-Christians, just like Isa and his army of Muslims. It honestly isn't a stretch to assume that.


Um, that actually is the devil's teaching. Satan wants nothing less than your entire devotion and worship towards him. His entire goal is to get you to stop worshiping God, and start worshiping him. Satan would like nothing less that an entire religion devoted to him, especially if said religion would persecute God's followers and people (Jews and Christians).

It is important to note that Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God while Muslims believe that Muhammad was an ordinary man until Gabriel appeared to him. For that reason would should look at them with different expectations as far as what they did in their lifetime.

Stronk Serb
March 1st, 2018, 03:47 PM
How about hard core Islam that is present in Bosnia.

It is not yet brutal as the Middle-Eastern one, but I am against it. Especially because my ancestors died so that we do not have those practices enforced on us by state policy.

Uniquemind
March 2nd, 2018, 01:55 AM
I still don’t see a justification nor an understanding from Muslims about what the Christian trinity is. Again it feels like their foundation for why Christianity is wrong, is because of a strawman representation of Christianity.

When they criticize Jesus, it’s like they think Christians idol worship a man, and that’s the foundation of betraying the spiritual God of The Father. In some respects Jewish faith also rejects Christ on a similar line of argument.

NewLeafsFan
March 2nd, 2018, 03:08 AM
I still don’t see a justification nor an understanding from Muslims about what the Christian trinity is. Again it feels like their foundation for why Christianity is wrong, is because of a strawman representation of Christianity.

When they criticize Jesus, it’s like they think Christians idol worship a man, and that’s the foundation of betraying the spiritual God of The Father. In some respects Jewish faith also rejects Christ on a similar line of argument.

That is because they do not see him as 100% human and 100% God

whoisme
March 3rd, 2018, 03:32 PM
I still don’t see a justification nor an understanding from Muslims about what the Christian trinity is. Again it feels like their foundation for why Christianity is wrong, is because of a strawman representation of Christianity.

When they criticize Jesus, it’s like they think Christians idol worship a man, and that’s the foundation of betraying the spiritual God of The Father. In some respects Jewish faith also rejects Christ on a similar line of argument.

I don't know how Muslims could justify a doctrine that they don't believe in and that's not adopted by Christ nor understood by Christians themselves. Christians believe Jesus told them to obey the first commandment.
Muslims, unlike Christians, don't curse or criticize Prophet Jesus.

From what I've seen an increasing number of Muslims are dropping the doctrine of Mohammed's perfection because there is so much evidence against it.


Muslims believe Prophets of God are chosen as the best human beings.
https://s20.postimg.org/6ex25mqd9/articles-of-faith.jpg

JustMyHumbleOpinion
March 3rd, 2018, 06:51 PM
I think both Muslims and Christians can be lenient and progressive- but it depends on the country and how progressive the area is.
For example some Turkish Muslims i have met during travels have been all for gay rights.
Most said they drink too, and some admitted to eating pork!

A lot of people (like i mentioned before) really just take parts of their religion they like and ignore the verses and rules they don't wanna follow or if it doesn't suit their agenda.

Uniquemind
March 4th, 2018, 06:06 PM
I don't know how Muslims could justify a doctrine that they don't believe in and that's not adopted by Christ nor understood by Christians themselves. Christians believe Jesus told them to obey the first commandment.
Muslims, unlike Christians, don't curse or criticize Prophet Jesus.



Muslims believe Prophets of God are chosen as the best human beings.
image (https://s20.postimg.org/6ex25mqd9/articles-of-faith.jpg)

That’s interesting though. Because the first commandment is vague in terms of not defining what constitutes taking a god before the one true God, in either 3 of the Abrahamic faiths. That vagueness is what causes many differing interpretations and that culture of obedience has been misused by many cults to display bad fruits.

whoisme
March 5th, 2018, 06:52 AM
That’s interesting though. Because the first commandment is vague in terms of not defining what constitutes taking a god before the one true God, in either 3 of the Abrahamic faiths. That vagueness is what causes many differing interpretations and that culture of obedience has been misused by many cults to display bad fruits.

According to the bible authors, this vagueness was abolished and the case was closed by Prophet Jesus when he contrasts himself with the one true God.

https://s20.postimg.org/p7hgp7ukd/14102698_10157389480545187_1076692957796424273_n.jpg

PlasmaHam
March 5th, 2018, 02:47 PM
I don't know how Muslims could justify a doctrine that they don't believe in and that's not adopted by Christ nor understood by Christians themselves. Christians believe Jesus told them to obey the first commandment.
Muslims, unlike Christians, don't curse or criticize Prophet Jesus.

From a Godhead/Trinitarian perspective, there really isn't any problem with the First Commandment. God is the only god you should be worshiping, that we can agree upon. However, there is nothing that says that God himself can't be a triune being. There are numerous implications of such a nature throughout the Jewish texts (ie: Genesis 1:26 and Daniel 3:25) In my opinion, one of Islam's biggest apologetical weaknesses is it's fundamental misunderstanding of how Christians (and some Jews) see the idea of a trinity. Christians don't believe that Jesus is literally God's biological son, or that the three figures rule Heaven like how the 12 Olympic Gods ruled Olympus. Yet those uneducated assumptions is all I ever get from Muslims.

whoisme
March 5th, 2018, 04:20 PM
From a Godhead/Trinitarian perspective, there really isn't any problem with the First Commandment. God is the only god you should be worshiping, that we can agree upon. However, there is nothing that says that God himself can't be a triune being. There are numerous implications of such a nature throughout the Jewish texts (ie: Genesis 1:26 and Daniel 3:25) In my opinion, one of Islam's biggest apologetical weaknesses is it's fundamental misunderstanding of how Christians (and some Jews) see the idea of a trinity. Christians don't believe that Jesus is literally God's biological son, or that the three figures rule Heaven like how the 12 Olympic Gods ruled Olympus. Yet those uneducated assumptions is all I ever get from Muslims.

Christians claim that "God begets" and that Prophet Jesus is begotten NOT made. Muslims believe begetting does not beseem the greatness of God and He doesn't beget: {He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.} [Quran: 112:3-4] Nothing came out of Him nor did He come out of anything. He has no equal, no likeness and no similarity.

Uniquemind
March 5th, 2018, 04:47 PM
Christians claim that "God begets" and that Prophet Jesus is begotten NOT made. Muslims believe begetting does not beseem the greatness of God and He doesn't beget: {He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.} [Quran: 112:3-4] Nothing came out of Him nor did He come out of anything. He has no equal, no likeness and no similarity.

Problem is you are using the Quran, to justify that view. If you are talking to other faiths that’s not convincing because if you are already citing a faith argument from the same faiths sources it boils down to : it is true because it is true.

Also God should have the ability to do anything, so to see a qualifier on what he can do (he won’t beget) makes a contradiction here.



So edit: because I assume I won this debate since my thesis wasn’t successfully countered...no responses for a week..