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View Full Version : Good News From Germany: Merkel 'wins', nationalist breakthrough


Living For Love
September 24th, 2017, 12:23 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41376577

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been re-elected for a fourth term in federal elections, exit polls suggest.

Her conservative CDU/CSU alliance has won 32.5% of the vote, remaining the largest party in Germany's parliament, according to the ARD poll.

Its coalition partner, the social democratic SPD, has gained 20%.

Meanwhile, the AfD, a right-wing nationalist, anti-Islam party, was on track to win 13.5%, emerging as Germany's third-strongest party.

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Addressing supporters, Mrs Merkel said she hoped for a "better result" and talked about "extraordinary challenges". She added that she would listen to the "concerns and anxieties" of AfD voters in other to regain them.

The numbers mean that the SPD, led by Martin Schulz, has fallen to a new post-World War Two low. Mr Schulz said the result was the end of the "grand coalition" with Mrs Merkel's alliance. "It's a difficult and bitter day for social democrats in Germany. We haven't reached our objective," he told supporters.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12029/production/_97996737_german_electionresultpoll-n.png

AfD's performance, better than what opinion polls had forecast, means that the right-wing party will have a seat at the Bundestag for the first time. The party's leader, Frauke Petry, said on Twitter (in German) that Germany has experienced an incomparable "political earthquake".

The exit poll put the Liberal FDP with 10.5%; the Greens with 9.5% and the Die Linke (The Left) with 9%.

Mrs Merkel will now have to search for new coalition partners - a process that could take months.

LIVE UPDATES HERE: http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-41367497

Despite being Merkel's worst result, there are some viable coalition possibilities*. Right-wing nationalist and anti-Islam Alternative for Germany (AfD) is celebrating its entry into the German Parliament (for the first time in more than 50 years). Projections say they might win around 88 seats.

*https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKgNzYsW4AIfLxT.jpg

mattsmith48
September 24th, 2017, 01:46 PM
After what happen in the 1930's I'm surprise they would even let a anti-Islam party run.

Exocet
September 24th, 2017, 04:28 PM
Merkel has only herself to blame for paving the way of nationalists into the Bundestag with her failed migrant policy.

Dalcourt
September 24th, 2017, 09:25 PM
After what happen in the 1930's I'm surprise they would even let a anti-Islam party run.

It's called democracy so how could they have been stopped from running.

In a system like the US those 13 percent wouldn't matter, so it's not that bad after all considering how many people still spoke against them compared with for example France.
And now they also have to show what they are able to do apart from verbally abusing Angela Merkel and shouting anti Islam paroles. It's easy to grab voters with hate speech but it's another thing to keep those people if you don't have anything apart from big words.
So it will stay interesting.

lliam
September 24th, 2017, 10:29 PM
I'd quite forgotten in Germany were elections.
And as I expected, Angie remains chancellor.

And as for the AfD, I got that impression


https://picload.org/image/dgawiwli/affen-fuer-schland.jpg

mattsmith48
September 24th, 2017, 11:38 PM
It's called democracy so how could they have been stopped from running.

In a system like the US those 13 percent wouldn't matter, so it's not that bad after all considering how many people still spoke against them compared with for example France.
And now they also have to show what they are able to do apart from verbally abusing Angela Merkel and shouting anti Islam paroles. It's easy to grab voters with hate speech but it's another thing to keep those people if you don't have anything apart from big words.
So it will stay interesting.

Germany as anti-hate speech laws that they could use to prevent anti-Islam parties to run. The German electoral system, one of the fairest btw, should prevent them from getting to power and even less likely they would get a majority as oppose to countries like France or the US where a Nazi Germany scenario is not only possible, but would be disturbingly easy to achieve.

Dalcourt
September 24th, 2017, 11:53 PM
Germany as anti-hate speech laws that they could use to prevent anti-Islam parties to run. The German electoral system, one of the fairest btw, should prevent them from getting to power and even less likely they would get a majority as oppose to countries like France or the US where a Nazi Germany scenario is not only possible, but would be disturbingly easy to achieve.


Sure there are anti hate speech laws but there are also ways around them...just think about how hard it is to get a party like the NPD outlawed even in Germany with all their strict legislations and they are far more obvious Nazis as they never really even tried to disguise the ideology like AfD sometimes tries.

As a whole it's not all bad that happend in Germany...if they don't want to have a minority government they seem to need the green party...which means the must give in to some of their demands about climate, renewable energy etc.

mattsmith48
September 25th, 2017, 12:23 AM
Sure there are anti hate speech laws but there are also ways around them...just think about how hard it is to get a party like the NPD outlawed even in Germany with all their strict legislations and they are far more obvious Nazis as they never really even tried to disguise the ideology like AfD sometimes tries.

As a whole it's not all bad that happend in Germany...if they don't want to have a minority government they seem to need the green party...which means the must give in to some of their demands about climate, renewable energy etc.

This is what is fun about the German electoral system a false majority like we have here is impossible.

Exocet
September 25th, 2017, 03:53 AM
Germany as anti-hate speech laws that they could use to prevent anti-Islam parties to run. The German electoral system, one of the fairest btw, should prevent them from getting to power and even less likely they would get a majority as oppose to countries like France or the US where a Nazi Germany scenario is not only possible, but would be disturbingly easy to achieve.

Why don't people try to understand the AFD vote and its causes instead of questionning Germany's democratic system and other's people choice ?

Surely all those people that voted for this party wanted to spread a message,anger and despair,but if you guys think that burying your heads in the sand and pretend there's nothing wrong will improve the situation.... then you're terribly mistaken.

mattsmith48
September 25th, 2017, 06:15 AM
Why don't people try to understand the AFD vote and its causes instead of questionning Germany's democratic system and other's people choice ?

Surely all those people that voted for this party wanted to spread a message,anger and despair,but if you guys think that burying your heads in the sand and pretend there's nothing wrong will improve the situation.... then you're terribly mistaken.

Tell us, what is that message they tried to send.

Dalcourt
September 25th, 2017, 10:23 AM
Tell us, what is that message they tried to send.

Since statistics showed the majority of AfD voters was unemployed from Eastern Germany I guess the message they try to send is: we don't want to share the social security and welfare benefits the working population of the rest of Germany provides us with since reunification with any refugees from foreign countries.


Yeah... it's mean but if you understand German and the horrible Eastern accents there I feel that was basically what it was about bottom line.

Germany is wealthy...caters for the needs of everyone there, standard of living is high, same as wages, unemployment rates are low...it's secure to live there...terrorism is minimal compared to France and Great Britain.
They are respected everywhere in the world.

So what complaints could they possibly have?

mattsmith48
September 25th, 2017, 12:02 PM
Since statistics showed the majority of AfD voters was unemployed from Eastern Germany I guess the message they try to send is: we don't want to share the social security and welfare benefits the working population of the rest of Germany provides us with since reunification with any refugees from foreign countries.


Yeah... it's mean but if you understand German and the horrible Eastern accents there I feel that was basically what it was about bottom line.

Germany is wealthy...caters for the needs of everyone there, standard of living is high, same as wages, unemployment rates are low...it's secure to live there...terrorism is minimal compared to France and Great Britain.
They are respected everywhere in the world.

So what complaints could they possibly have?

So they are blaming foreigners for their problem?

ShineintheDark
September 25th, 2017, 12:10 PM
Why don't people try to understand the AFD vote and its causes instead of questionning Germany's democratic system and other's people choice ?


We have a similar party over in the UK called UKIP. We know what they want overall, polls and statistics show a great majority of them were ex-Labour voters. They want economic alleviation from austerity. They want companies to actually pay taxes. They want the money bubbles to burst. The ONLY main difference between Labour and UKIP that most have affected them this hugely to switch parties IS immigration. There is no negotiating with them, there is no compromise to be made. If there was, they wouldn't be setting up their own parties with some extreme messages and platforms. The people on here don't criticise them because they're poor and want financial aid. We don't criticise them because they have spent too long being ignored by the elites. We criticise them because they knowingly and willingly choose to associate with these parties and therefore are worthy of criticism.

Dalcourt
September 26th, 2017, 06:47 AM
So they are blaming foreigners for their problem?

Well, do you think they should blame themselves? That would be absurd.
I honestly don't know what their problem is and how they think a right wing party with absolutely no message other than hating on Angela Merkel and Muslims should solve anything.

I discussed the whole thing with a friend from Germany. She has no idea what people hope to gain from voting for a party like that, either.

Exocet
September 26th, 2017, 08:17 AM
Since statistics showed the majority of AfD voters was unemployed from Eastern Germany I guess the message they try to send is: we don't want to share the social security and welfare benefits the working population of the rest of Germany provides us with since reunification with any refugees from foreign countries.


Yeah... it's mean but if you understand German and the horrible Eastern accents there I feel that was basically what it was about bottom line.

Germany is wealthy...caters for the needs of everyone there, standard of living is high, same as wages, unemployment rates are low...it's secure to live there...terrorism is minimal compared to France and Great Britain.
They are respected everywhere in the world.

So what complaints could they possibly have?

Poverty is high compared to many other European countries,millions of workers are working on part time low wage jobs,having several in some cases to survive,millions of retired are still working because their pensions are too low..... That's the other face of Germany..... Infrastructures are falling apart because of low investments....

And maybe because Merkel opened the doors to millions of asylum seekers who went on crime rampage through Germany......

PlasmaHam
September 26th, 2017, 08:23 AM
It's called democracy so how could they have been stopped from running.

In a system like the US those 13 percent wouldn't matter, so it's not that bad after all considering how many people still spoke against them compared with for example France.
And now they also have to show what they are able to do apart from verbally abusing Angela Merkel and shouting anti Islam paroles. It's easy to grab voters with hate speech but it's another thing to keep those people if you don't have anything apart from big words.
So it will stay interesting.
Good point. It is easy to grab voters with devisive rhetoric if you've never held office, but if you don't actually do anything then that voting base in going to leave you. That is the problem with most fringe political groups, and I wouldn't be surprised that this group followed suit in a few years. But then again, they may last.

I wouldn't say this group won just because of Islam and Merkel-hatred. The party ran upon Euroskepticism, the idea that further integration into the EU is a bane to both the German economy and German sovereignty. They are also for lower taxes by the privation of services like social security, and value a pre-WWI era return to national pride. All this attracts a middle class who have felt left out by a government that appears to value the rich and foreign migrants more than them.

Dalcourt
September 26th, 2017, 10:08 AM
Poverty is high compared to many other European countries,millions of workers are working on part time low wage jobs,having several in some cases to survive,millions of retired are still working because their pensions are too low..... That's the other face of Germany..... Infrastructures are falling apart because of low investments....

And maybe because Merkel opened the doors to millions of asylum seekers who went on crime rampage through Germany......

Oh the crime rampage thing or as our Mr. Trump calls it "fake news".
Nobody denies that there are problems in a country like Germany but compared to some parts of the US they live in heaven.

You know I would accept a party like the AfD if they were able to offer some real and practical solutions to any problem. But as far as I see it they don't....they just spread fear and hatred among easily influenced people.

It's a lot like all the things Trump promised....in the end it's just big words without any substance to it.


And their big slogan was "Merkel muss weg" = "Merkel needs to go"
She is still there, so end of the day Germans said what they really wanted and what message they really wanted to give the world ;)

mattsmith48
September 26th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Well, do you think they should blame themselves? That would be absurd.
I honestly don't know what their problem is and how they think a right wing party with absolutely no message other than hating on Angela Merkel and Muslims should solve anything.

I discussed the whole thing with a friend from Germany. She has no idea what people hope to gain from voting for a party like that, either.

I don't know what the problem is, so I don't know who or what they should blame for their problems. As for why they would choose the AfD over common sense, I think like what happen in the UK with Brexit or the US with Pussy Grabber or almost happen in France with Crazy Cat Lady, it is racists and xenophobic who are obsessed with the idea that foreigners wants to steal their job and kill them and running with it, instead of actually trying to find what is the real cause of their problem.

Stronk Serb
September 30th, 2017, 06:35 AM
Well, the Nazis were democratically elected too. They formed a coalition with Zentrum and had a majority. Then they used their newly-found powers to make a dictatorship.

Dalcourt
September 30th, 2017, 07:12 AM
Well, the Nazis were democratically elected too. They formed a coalition with Zentrum and had a majority. Then they used their newly-found powers to make a dictatorship.

So?
And what should this say to all of you over in Europe?
It's time for you all to freak out cuz Germans will found a Fourth Reich and try to invade and kill you all once again?

Stronk Serb
October 1st, 2017, 04:41 AM
So?
And what should this say to all of you over in Europe?
It's time for you all to freak out cuz Germans will found a Fourth Reich and try to invade and kill you all once again?

Everybody freaks out over AfD like they are Nazis etc, but what people should do is look at what bought to such amound of voters to the AfD. I mean what brought the Nazis in Germany to power is a failed state. Disorder and an incapable government. Germany now is entering the phase where if they don't pull their shit together, a far-right party will take the wheel.

Dalcourt
October 1st, 2017, 05:13 AM
Everybody freaks out over AfD like they are Nazis etc, but what people should do is look at what bought to such amound of voters to the AfD. I mean what brought the Nazis in Germany to power is a failed state. Disorder and an incapable government. Germany now is entering the phase where if they don't pull their shit together, a far-right party will take the wheel.

And how do you think they should pull their shit together?

NewLeafsFan
October 7th, 2017, 01:47 AM
She won the election which seems good. That being said this rise in far right nationalist is very scary. As Hillary Clinton said, "our democracy is in jeopardy."