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View Full Version : Charlottesville police failed to provide protection to synagogue from armed Neo-Nazis


maddogmj77
September 24th, 2017, 03:32 AM
http://www.newsweek.com/charlottesville-police-refused-protect-synagogue-nazis-so-it-hired-armed-651260

I know the events of Charlottesville are done and gone. But I had never heard anyone mention this story specifically.

“For half an hour, three men dressed in fatigues and armed with semi-automatic rifles stood across the street from the temple,” he wrote. “Had they tried to enter, I don’t know what I could have done to stop them, but I couldn’t take my eyes off them, either.”

“Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, 'There's the synagogue!' followed by chants of 'Sieg Heil' and other anti-Semitic language. Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols,” Zimmerman wrote.

Zimmerman said the threat was not only on the ground, but online too. He learned that Nazi websites had posted a call to burn the synagogue after which the community leaders took “the precautionary step of removing our Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the premises.”

Armed Neo-Nazis stood outside a Jewish place of worship, parading past it, carrying Nazi flags & assault weapons, yelling "Sieg heil!", and other anti-Semitic remarks.
The Jewish church-goers called the police to come protect them from the LITERAL ARMED NAZIS, standing across from their synagogue.

The police never showed up... Counter-protesters showed up to protest these armed Nazis parading the streets.

One of the Neo-Nazis ended up using a car to run over the counter-protesters, killing one, and injuring 19 others.

President Trump blames this violence on "both sides".
President Trump said there was "some very fine people on both sides".

No Trump, armed Neo-Nazis parading the streets terrorizing the Jewish community are NOT "very fine people".
The Neo-Nazis showed up in military gear, armed with shields and assault weapons. They were prepared for, and anticipating violence. It was not "both sides"

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/the_first_and_second_amendments_clashed_in_charlottesville_the_guns_won/Violent-Clashes-Erupt-at-Unite-The-Right-Rally-In-Charlottesville_2.jpeg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpeg
http://altdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/36372691002_f5eb7d59c6_k.jpg
https://azjewishpost.com/files/2017/08/charlottesville-748x499.jpg
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/599081d015000021008b654c.jpeg?ops=scalefit_970_noupscale

NONE of those people were police or military. They're all White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis.

ShineintheDark
September 24th, 2017, 09:06 AM
Whilst shedding more light on the events of Charlottesville, this won't do anything to change the minds of Trump nor those who defend the Neo-Nazis and only really stirrs up those of us who already oppose them. Therefore there isn't really much to discuss.

PlasmaHam
September 24th, 2017, 01:19 PM
First, I'll just like to ask the mods to keep this from becoming Charlottesville 2.0. Thanks.

I don't know the merit of your sources here. I only found two running a similar story, and none of them have much to support it But I gotta call fake-news on your images. The first two were non-aligned milita men. They were not neo-nazis, but peace-keepera who were praised by the VA governor. And your other two pictures did feature neo-nazis, but they were not armed and armored like you or your source claimed. This seems like a classic deception trick honestly. You include two real pics, so people would be inclined to believe your fake one.


And I don't see how the police not properly protecting the synagogue is a real story. It is well established that the Charlottesville police were under prepared and undermanned to properly deal with the riots. It isn't like the Charlottesville police decided to just ignore the synagogue, they simply didn't have enough men to do anything about it. So yeah, I am going to dismiss your falacious images as due to your source, but this is the second time in less than a month you have featured a fallacious and hyperbolic story on VTDC. I suggest you re-evaluate your sources you are getting your news from.

maddogmj77
September 24th, 2017, 10:16 PM
But I gotta call fake-news on your images. The first two were non-aligned militia men. They were not Neo-Nazis, but peace-keepers who were praised by the VA governor. And your other two pictures did feature Neo-Nazis, but they were not armed and armored like you or your source claimed. This seems like a classic deception trick honestly. You include two real pics, so people would be inclined to believe your fake one.
Look at the second photo. Notice the Confederate flags? Notice the two people in front strapped with assault rifles? See the building that they're parading past? That's the same exact building in the fourth picture with the Nazi flag. Same parade of people.

Do you not see the third picture with them all holding riot shields? Do you not see the people wearing helmets? That white flag with the black cross is the flag of Southern Nationalism. It's pretty racist, just like the Confederate flag.

You really think there are militia men in Charlottesville? Would you mind sourcing that?

And I don't see how the police not properly protecting the synagogue is a real story. It is well established that the Charlottesville police were under prepared and undermanned to properly deal with the riots. It isn't like the Charlottesville police decided to just ignore the synagogue, they simply didn't have enough men to do anything about it.
Charlottesville people told them they would be sending an "observer" to help.
NOBODY showed up. They could have spared at least one person to make sure the Nazis didn't try to start a killing spree at the Synagogue.

So yeah, I am going to dismiss your falacious images as due to your source.
Typical. "Fake News!" You sure learned a lot from Trump.

I don't know the merit of your sources here. I only found two running a similar story, and none of them have much to support it But I gotta call fake-news on your images.
http://www.guns.com/2017/08/18/charlottesville-police-ignored-pleas-to-protect-synagogue-from-neo-nazis/
https://www.themarysue.com/nazi-rally-passes-by-synagogue/
http://www.newsweek.com/charlottesville-police-refused-protect-synagogue-nazis-so-it-hired-armed-651260
http://www.businessinsider.com/charlottesvilles-synagogue-president-scene-white-nationalists-neo-nazis-2017-8
https://reformjudaism.org/blog/2017/08/14/charlottesville-local-jewish-community-presses
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/neo-nazis-marched-past-their-synagogue-chanting-sieg-heil-two-weeks-later-the-charlottesville-jewish-community-is-still-healing/2017/08/26/d75ef1d0-8a70-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html?utm_term=.b78dadddc395
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/how_the_local_rabbi_deals_when_the_neo_nazis_come_to_town.html
http://www.pressherald.com/2017/08/18/jews-bullied-at-their-charlottesville-va-temple/
http://forward.com/fast-forward/380116/charlottesville-synagogue-back-door-neo-nazis/
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/charlottesville-rabbi-recounts-parade-of-nazis-outside-synagogue-1026239555660
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/nazis-racism-charlottesville/536928/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/synagogue-hired-security-cops-refused-protection-nazis-article-1.3417487
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/charlottesville-synagogue-president-recounts-scene-during-white-supremacist-rally
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/charlottesville-synagogue-says-police-declined-to-provide-guard-ahead-of-neo-nazi-protests-8-4-2017
https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-refused-to-protect-charlottesville-synagogue-during-far-right-march/

Same story, 15 different sources. That was just the first couple pages of Google. I could go on...
The pictures are from different sources. But all from the Charlottesville Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist rally.

This is the second time in less than a month you have featured a fallacious and hyperbolic story on VTDC.
Actually, this is the second time in less than a month that you have used the Donald Trump defense of "Fake News". But you seemingly fail to provide actual sources, evidence, or logic to explain why exactly it's fake news.

What's more likely, is that the story's I post are in contradiction with your false reality, so in order to alleviate the cognitive dissonance you get from reading them, you call it "Fake News!" & continue to believe whatever you want even in the face of facts & photographic evidence.

Dalcourt
September 24th, 2017, 10:45 PM
No matter what, if someone tries to find words of defence for people waving Nazi flags and shouting "Sieg Heil" next to a synagogue without any particular reason at all except being anti semitic it says enough about that person in question.

mattsmith48
September 24th, 2017, 11:22 PM
Look at the second photo. Notice the Confederate flags? Notice the two people in front strapped with assault rifles? See the building that they're parading past? That's the same exact building in the fourth picture with the Nazi flag. Same parade of people.

Do you not see the third picture with them all holding riot shields? Do you not see the people wearing helmets? That white flag with the black cross is the flag of Southern Nationalism. It's pretty racist, just like the Confederate flag.

I think you are being really unfair everyone knows that police riot gear consist of confederate flags and plastic garbage can lids covered with duct tape.

Stronk Serb
October 1st, 2017, 04:48 AM
Charlottesville has about 130 cops. All of them were busy trying to stop the massacre at the park. I blame it on police incapability, not their open racism. The ops were overextended. Also Charlottesville has never had a riot so the cops didn't really know what to do.

maddogmj77
October 1st, 2017, 04:59 AM
Charlottesville has about 130 cops. All of them were busy trying to stop the massacre at the park. I blame it on police incapability, not their open racism. The ops were overextended. Also Charlottesville has never had a riot so the cops didn't really know what to do.
They were stretched a bit thin, and the park seemed to take precedence. But they could have spared at least 1 officer to make sure the Neo-Nazis didn't start a literal genocide at the synagogue.

They were carrying assault rifles, Nazi flags, they were marching past the synagogue doing "Sieg Heil!"s, shouting "There's the synagogue!", and other anti-Semitic remarks.

Those Jewish people were scared for their lives, from the intentionally threatening armed Neo-Nazis marching past their synagogue. And they couldn't spare one officer.

Maybe it was incapability, but they should've had their priorities straight.

Stronk Serb
October 1st, 2017, 05:04 AM
They were stretched a bit thin, and the park seemed to take precedence. But they could have spared at least 1 officer to make sure the Neo-Nazis didn't start a literal genocide at the synagogue.

They were carrying assault rifles, Nazi flags, they were marching past the synagogue doing "Sieg Heil!"s, shouting "There's the synagogue!", and other anti-Semitic remarks.

Those Jewish people were scared for their lives, from the intentionally threatening armed Neo-Nazis marching past their synagogue. And they couldn't spare one officer.

Maybe it was incapability, but they should've had their priorities straight.

Why were the Jews at the synagogue when they were protesting? I mean you usually steer clear with these types of protests. When riots occur in my town, everybody knows the drill. Do not go downtown and don't leave the house unless you really have to.

mattsmith48
October 1st, 2017, 11:40 AM
Why were the Jews at the synagogue when they were protesting? I mean you usually steer clear with these types of protests. When riots occur in my town, everybody knows the drill. Do not go downtown and don't leave the house unless you really have to.

It is their right to practice their religion when they want and a synagogue is the place where Jewish people to do it.

Stronk Serb
October 1st, 2017, 01:47 PM
It is their right to practice their religion when they want and a synagogue is the place where Jewish people to do it.

Sure, it is the right of the Neo-Nazis to march armed wherever they want too, so by your logic there is no problem. I mean if I were a Jew, I wouldn't approach the synagogue if there is a Neo-Nazi rally nearby.

mattsmith48
October 1st, 2017, 02:45 PM
Sure, it is the right of the Neo-Nazis to march armed wherever they want too, so by your logic there is no problem. I mean if I were a Jew, I wouldn't approach the synagogue if there is a Neo-Nazi rally nearby.

They shouldn't be allowed to.

Also they were threatening people with weapons which is illegal.

Sword of the morning
October 1st, 2017, 04:01 PM
I hate Nazis a couple relatives died fighting real Nazis not these lame neo Nazis. By law it is the right to protest around the sinaguge. They were not the only people there that were armed. The counter protesters had weapons and shields too. So in a genral statement Nazis are bad but if they were worried about harm they would have snuck everyone out and not comeback. If the counter protesters were worried about viloince and wanted to be peaceful they would have stayed home or gone to a different location.

Stronk Serb
October 1st, 2017, 09:55 PM
They shouldn't be allowed to.

Also they were threatening people with weapons which is illegal.

The people felt threatened, but the Nazis themselves said hateful things and paraded around. Now, why should they not be allowed to march. I mean I despise Antifa but if they want to protest peaefully, who am I to say that they shouldn't

maddogmj77
October 2nd, 2017, 08:27 AM
The people felt threatened, but the Nazis themselves said hateful things and paraded around. Now, why should they not be allowed to march. I mean I despise Antifa but if they want to protest peacefully, who am I to say that they shouldn't
They shouldn't have been allowed to march because they were purposefully trying to be threatening & intimidating. They were carrying assault rifles, shields, helmets, military gear, strapped with up to 10 clips of ammunition.
That's beyond self-defense, that's preparation for a massacre. That is NOT peaceful protest

So you despise Antifa, but can you not say the same about Neo-Nazis?
If the Neo-Nazis want to protest peacefully, then they can do that. This was not peaceful protest.
Peaceful protest doesn't make people scared for their lives.

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I hate Nazis a couple relatives died fighting real Nazis not these lame Neo-Nazis. By law it is the right to protest around the synagogue. They were not the only people there that were armed. The counter protesters had weapons and shields too. So in a general statement Nazis are bad but if they were worried about harm they would have snuck everyone out and not comeback. If the counter protesters were worried about violence and wanted to be peaceful they would have stayed home or gone to a different location.
The only reason the counter-protestors showed up armed is because the Neo-Nazis showed up armed. They wanted to make sure the Neo-Nazis didn't try to start a massacre.

Why should those Jewish people have to sneak out of their own synagogue, fearing for their lives, and never come back? Just so Neo-Nazis can parade their flags & guns?

Why were the Neo-Nazis carrying assault rifles with 10 clips of ammunition? That's not for self-defense; That's enough to start a local genocide.

Stronk Serb
October 2nd, 2017, 04:56 PM
They shouldn't have been allowed to march because they were purposefully trying to be threatening & intimidating. They were carrying assault rifles, shields, helmets, military gear, strapped with up to 10 clips of ammunition.
That's beyond self-defense, that's preparation for a massacre. That is NOT peaceful protest

So you despise Antifa, but can you not say the same about Neo-Nazis?
If the Neo-Nazis want to protest peacefully, then they can do that. This was not peaceful protest.
Peaceful protest doesn't make people scared for their lives.

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The only reason the counter-protestors showed up armed is because the Neo-Nazis showed up armed. They wanted to make sure the Neo-Nazis didn't try to start a massacre.

Why should those Jewish people have to sneak out of their own synagogue, fearing for their lives, and never come back? Just so Neo-Nazis can parade their flags & guns?

Why were the Neo-Nazis carrying assault rifles with 10 clips of ammunition? That's not for self-defense; That's enough to start a local genocide.

If the Neo-nazis did start a massacre, you do realize that they would have the National Guard on their ass? Getting labelled as a terrorist organisation. I dislike Antifa more because unlike the Neo-Nazis, they are two-faced. The Neo-Nazis are at least honest about their anti-Semitism, racism, advocation for white supremacy, while many Antifa members are really similar, just on the opposite spectrum. To Antifa it is totally okay to hate whites, Christianity and traditional values and to violently combat it.

Also regarding the carrying of automatic and semi-automatic weapons, if the state has an open-carry law allowing it, then let them, if not, prosecute that behaviour. Also what were the Jews thinking? Was it smart to go downtown to the synagogue with Neo-Nazis marching around? Use some common sense.

maddogmj77
October 3rd, 2017, 08:37 PM
If the Neo-nazis did start a massacre, you do realize that they would have the National Guard on their ass? Getting labelled as a terrorist organization..
So we have to wait until the Neo-Nazis have already started their massacre? Sorry, but I'd rather not wait until that happens.
They don't need that many guns, or that much ammo for a "peaceful" protest.

I dislike Antifa more because unlike the Neo-Nazis, they are two-faced. The Neo-Nazis are at least honest about their anti-Semitism, racism, advocation for white supremacy, while many Antifa members are really similar, just on the opposite spectrum. To Antifa it is totally okay to hate whites, Christianity and traditional values and to violently combat it.
Antifas that advocate for hate towards white people or Christianity, don't really understand the point of Antifa.

The majority of Antifa is only hateful towards those who hate. Neo-Nazis, Confederates, radical religions, racists, sexists, etc.

The majority of Antifa would not condone hate on Whites or Christianity.
The majority of Neo-Nazis openly condone hate towards Jews.

Also regarding the carrying of automatic and semi-automatic weapons, if the state has an open-carry law, then let them, if not, prosecute that behavior
They were purposefully trying to threaten & intidimidate. That is not a "peaceful" protest.

Also what were the Jews thinking? Was it smart to go downtown to the synagogue with Neo-Nazis marching around? Use some common sense.
The Neo-Nazis showed up while the Jewish people were in church. New people showing up were too scared to enter. The people already inside, sneaked outside the back entrance because they were scared.

Why should we allow these people to be fearful for their lives, just so Neo-Nazis can parade around with guns?

Arkansasguy
October 5th, 2017, 04:35 PM
1. Just calling someone a "Neo-Nazi" doesn't make it so. Agent provocateurs aside, the vast vast majority of white nationalists do not utilize Nazi symbols or imagery.

2. Given the known threat of Antifa, it's entirely understandable that the rally would have armed security. If a bunch of people with guns had any intention of starting violence, there would have been shootings, which there weren't.

ShineintheDark
October 6th, 2017, 11:33 AM
1. Just calling someone a "Neo-Nazi" doesn't make it so. Agent provocateurs aside, the vast vast majority of white nationalists do not utilize Nazi symbols or imagery.

2. Given the known threat of Antifa, it's entirely understandable that the rally would have armed security. If a bunch of people with guns had any intention of starting violence, there would have been shootings, which there weren't.

The issue was that, whilst they may have had no intention of starting anything with them, the guns were NOT there for protection. If they were, there would have been a cohesive circle of armed people or even any sort od organisation of people with guns for more effective protection in case of attack. It's clear from the descriptions and pictures that, whether they were indeed neo-nazis or not, the guns were more a sign of power and might than any idea of protection. They knew the guns probably weren't needed: Antifa pepperspray and bludgeon at their worst moments, they don't shoot.

Arkansasguy
October 6th, 2017, 01:43 PM
the guns were NOT there for protection

Good thing that you can read their minds and tell everyone what their real motivation was.

Antifa pepperspray and bludgeon at their worst moments

Baked Alaska was attacked with hydrochloric acid at the rally.

NewLeafsFan
October 7th, 2017, 01:44 AM
From some of the news stories coming from the southern USA I'm not that surprised.

As far as the Neo-Nazis are concerned, "those that forget about history are doomed to repeat it"