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Porpoise101
August 22nd, 2017, 09:05 PM
What do you think of open, or at least more liberalized immigration? Give your opinion on the matter along with some justification ideally.

PlasmaHam
August 22nd, 2017, 09:25 PM
I'm not that familiar with immigration, but I guess I am more in the "status quo" group in terms of it. But I think that designation provides a bit of a disservice towards my actual opinion upon on immigration. I think our main focus currently should not be changing how many people enter the country, but instead figuring out who we should allow to enter this country. Immigration can be a benefit or a detriment upon a society, I feel like the current US system is a detriment, but it can be helped.

mattsmith48
August 22nd, 2017, 11:25 PM
Definitely open borders. If you really believe you live in the best country in the world, you should let as many people as possible enjoy it and live in your country.

Vermilion
August 23rd, 2017, 12:21 AM
Honestly it has to be controlled. Allowing stupid amounts of people in can wreck a country, the uk is a good example schools are over crowded and hospital's are so under founded and near breaking point because more and more people are moving/ have moved into the uk. If it's controlled like allowing so many refugees and so many skilled workers for jobs that need to be filled it would work so much better here

Porpoise101
August 23rd, 2017, 05:49 PM
Honestly it has to be controlled. Allowing stupid amounts of people in can wreck a country, the uk is a good example schools are over crowded and hospital's are so under founded and near breaking point because more and more people are moving/ have moved into the uk.Imagine how much worse it would be if these immigrants just evaporated. You would lose a lot of population, and not just any population either. Immigrant populations work, so you would end up losing economic activity and any tax revenues that result from that activity. This would render governments less able to provide services to your citizens. I feel that the poor quality in public services is less to do with immigrants and overcrowding and more to do with not taxing enough/smartly to fund your programs. In fact, more immigration could be a solution to your funding issues as long as you can integrate them into your workforce.

Dmaxd123
August 24th, 2017, 02:25 PM
i live in the country, hispanics are common on the farms so i'm not anti-immigration

my thoughts are if you are coming from another country you need to be coming for a job not to live off of our system (i'm also all for making the unemployed do some nature of community service to receive their benefits but that is a different story)

immigrants get a temporary work permit say 6months or a year, then they can reapply for an extended say 5 year term. at the end of 5 years if their taxes are in order they are staying out of legal trouble and they wish to become a citizen let them take a citizenship test and they are welcome to stay

Porpoise101
August 24th, 2017, 09:33 PM
immigrants get a temporary work permit say 6months or a year, then they can reapply for an extended say 5 year term. at the end of 5 years if their taxes are in order they are staying out of legal trouble and they wish to become a citizen let them take a citizenship test and they are welcome to stayIt is interesting you say this and you voted 'status quo' in the poll. What you say here is something I agree with, however it is much more streamlined than the current American immigration system and pathway to citizenship.

Vlerchan
August 25th, 2017, 04:47 AM
For skilled immigrants it should be greatly liberalised,

There should also be a significant expansion of temporary workers visas which places significant importance on cultural diversity.

If you really believe you live in the best country in the world, you should let as many people as possible enjoy it and live in your country.
You can earn a better standard of living as a homeless person in the United States, than living in some countries in the world - and a significant amount I might add. Entirely open borders would undoubtedly lead to situation which would be straight-up un-humanitarian: slums and deplorable amounts of urban-overcrowding which would undermine physical and social infrastructure.

It's frankly just not a sustainable option, no matter how great your sense of cosmopolitanism.

Dmaxd123
August 25th, 2017, 05:18 AM
It is interesting you say this and you voted 'status quo' in the poll. What you say here is something I agree with, however it is much more streamlined than the current American immigration system and pathway to citizenship.

i say status quo because I know that what I think would be a logical immigration solution really isn't likely to happen. so that leaves me in the leave them alone or tighten them down... opening the boarders more just isn't a good option at this point in time

lliam
August 25th, 2017, 05:33 AM
Since I prefer to live in a boundless world, my answer can only be pro open borders, but would be in the end: no borers.

Luke15
August 25th, 2017, 09:02 AM
I only support legal immigration, not open borders or illegal immigration/refugee status.
Europe is a good example why.

Porpoise101
August 25th, 2017, 09:56 AM
Entirely open borders would undoubtedly lead to situation which would be straight-up un-humanitarian: slums and deplorable amounts of urban-overcrowding which would undermine physical and social infrastructure.And before this can truly materialize, you'd probably see some type of xenophobic and populist backlash that threatens your whole system. This is the main reason I think the change needs to happen in gradual steps over time.

lliam
August 25th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Europe is a good example why.

explain

This is the main reason I think the change needs to happen in gradual steps over time.

Yepp. Luke mentioned Europe as a example. I don't go with his intensions (which I only can assume yet) ...

But in the case of open borders, imo Europe is a good example. Not every new member of the EU immediately receives the full membership status, even if the borders are more or less open.

Also, I think that Europe has grown much too fast since the 1990s. No trace of "gradual steps over time" in any case.

And this is one of the main causes of the crisis in which Europe has maneuvered itself.

Posts merged. Please edit your post next time. ~Jinglebottom

Luke15
August 25th, 2017, 10:21 AM
Europe is getting a new terrorist attacked every 2 months, rapes, murders, attacks have increased since they let in "refugees" that come from not only Syria, but bunch of other countries that hate west.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&hl=en_US&ll=51.38862605870833%2C6.903803664746192&z=5
What migrants did to Germany.

Porpoise101
August 25th, 2017, 10:35 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&hl=en_US&ll=51.38862605870833%2C6.903803664746192&z=5
What migrants did to Germany.That map has been debunked (http://www.thedailybeast.com/german-alt-right-loves-this-fake-refugee-crime-map) as any sort of indication of migrant crime. It is only a worst-case scenario (as in if all of the cases on the map are legit, most cannot be verified). Bring in real, hard facts next time.

I do agree with the sentiment that the EU countries failed to produce a cohesive strategy to deal with migrants. But I will remind you all that such plans failed because nationalist and isolationist opposition in the EU (from countries like Poland and Hungary) prevented any unified, cohesive approach to dealing with the migrant crisis from succeeding. The people who whine today about 'muh migrants' caused this to happen. Any blood and damage is on them for the most part.

In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.

Luke15
August 26th, 2017, 07:48 AM
That map has been debunked (http://www.thedailybeast.com/german-alt-right-loves-this-fake-refugee-crime-map) as any sort of indication of migrant crime. It is only a worst-case scenario (as in if all of the cases on the map are legit, most cannot be verified). Bring in real, hard facts next time.

I do agree with the sentiment that the EU countries failed to produce a cohesive strategy to deal with migrants. But I will remind you all that such plans failed because nationalist and isolationist opposition in the EU (from countries like Poland and Hungary) prevented any unified, cohesive approach to dealing with the migrant crisis from succeeding. The people who whine today about 'muh migrants' caused this to happen. Any blood and damage is on them for the most part.

In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.

Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.

lliam
August 26th, 2017, 08:48 AM
Such maps are imo just populistic crap.

The greatest enemy for one's own country is imo a rampant populism. The immigrants in general aren't such a big deal.


Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.

Forget those sources. If these datas aren't 100% factually and objectively presented as news, they are just dunghills in the allday landscape of latest news.

And even objectively, very serious news services aren't always really serious presenters of those real datas. You should always lower your expectations when it comes watching or reading news.

mattsmith48
August 26th, 2017, 10:40 AM
I only support legal immigration, not open borders or illegal immigration/refugee status.
Europe is a good example why.

Refugees are the ones we should open our borders the most to. They are suffering greatly and if they had stay they would most likely have died there. It is our moral obligation open our borders to them and help them to a better and safer live.


In any case, the people who complain about immigration the most (Anglos and Americans) don't even have all of the issues that the Europeans have. Unlike European countries, Anglophone nations are far better at assimilating and integrating their immigrants into society. So at the very least the UK, US, Australia, NZ, and Canada should be able to handle more liberalized immigration.

We are actually a bilingual country.

Porpoise101
August 26th, 2017, 03:47 PM
Nope, the cases that are on the map, are real. They even provide links to news sources they take that from, including police.If you actually read my link, you would know that these 'cases' are not all confirmed to be done by migrants. Much of the cases are only supported by eyewitness accounts that say that the people who did the act were "dark" or "swarthy". This gives zero information, because it means the perpetrators could have been a migrant, a Turk who has lived his whole life in Germany, or even an unshaven German who got a suntan! Sure, I may be exaggerating, but the point is that there is no certainty here. So, your map is trash.

And even if it was worthwhile, it does not give any meaningful information on immigration unless we have a map of crimes that non-migrants committed. Only then we will be able to analyze crime and compare risks with a clear head.

mattsmith48 in immigration terms, you are Anglophone because most of your immigrants speak English as a second language rather than French. In many ways, you are a little more bilingual than the US (we have Spanish too). Not saying this is good or bad, it is just the way that things have gone. Canada was always Anglo-dominated after British takeover.

mattsmith48
August 27th, 2017, 12:42 AM
mattsmith48 in immigration terms, you are Anglophone because most of your immigrants speak English as a second language rather than French. In many ways, you are a little more bilingual than the US (we have Spanish too). Not saying this is good or bad, it is just the way that things have gone. Canada was always Anglo-dominated after British takeover.

We are officially a bilingual country. Because we are the minority it is more practical for immigrants to choose to go with English unless they are going to live in Quebec.

Porpoise101
August 27th, 2017, 08:26 PM
We are officially a bilingual country. Because we are the minority it is more practical for immigrants to choose to go with English unless they are going to live in Quebec.Even the ones that will go to live in Quebec can live an Anglophone life because there are Anglophone institutions for people to use in that province. This is getting OT, but the point is that Canada is an Anglo-dominated society in the eye of the immigrant. If we had national languages in the US, we would be bilingual too.

Back on topic: here is a study (http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu/publications/docs/workingpapers/2017/wp-17-12.pdf) that shows influx of refugees does not have bad impacts on school systems.

NewLeafsFan
August 31st, 2017, 12:19 PM
No offence, but to everyone that said no I'd like to personally put you on a boat and take you back where you, your parents, or your grandparents, etc, came from.

There was a boat full of Jews that came to Canada and the USA at the beginning of WWII and both countries denied allowing them entry. Most died when the boat returned to Nazi occupied Europe. Remember that story.

Dmaxd123
September 3rd, 2017, 05:52 AM
No offence, but to everyone that said no I'd like to personally put you on a boat and take you back where you, your parents, or your grandparents, etc, came from.

There was a boat full of Jews that came to Canada and the USA at the beginning of WWII and both countries denied allowing them entry. Most died when the boat returned to Nazi occupied Europe. Remember that story.

this isn't about my great grandparents... they came to this country legally.

as long as someone goes through the proper channels and is coming in to help the country bring them on in,

to just open the boarders for anyone and any reason is asinine in my opinion

Vlerchan
September 3rd, 2017, 03:09 PM
No offence, but to everyone that said no I'd like to personally put you on a boat and take you back where you, your parents, or your grandparents, etc, came from.
Whether we should deport the current stock of (legal or illegal) immigrants and whether we should allow more immigrants to enter the country are two entirely different questions.

Nevertheless, I'd be deported to about a half mile up the road.

jamie_n5
September 3rd, 2017, 06:30 PM
I am not against immigration but our borders need to be restricted. Tougher border control is needed to try slow or stop illegal materials such as drugs and illegal guns and things coming over. People also need to immigrate legally and have a purpose for coming here.

Flapjack
September 3rd, 2017, 09:00 PM
I do loveee the idea of open borders because we can't choose where we are born and if you want to move somewhere then it would be awesome if you just could!! A guy I know at work is moving to Brazil because it was taking too long for his wife to get a visa to enter the UK, stuff like that breaks my heart!!

Whether it will work in reality however is another matter, I think we should wait until other countries try it and see how it goes, similar to decriminalising drugs!

mattsmith48
September 4th, 2017, 01:29 AM
I do loveee the idea of open borders because we can't choose where we are born and if you want to move somewhere then it would be awesome if you just could!! A guy I know at work is moving to Brazil because it was taking too long for his wife to get a visa to enter the UK, stuff like that breaks my heart!!

What breaks my heart is the Haitian refugees coming in from the US having to illegally cross the border to seek asylum here because President Pussy Grabber doesn't want to keep them. And because of the stupid safe third country agreement the ones who try to come here legally are almost instantly rejected and sent back to the US where they are thrown in jailed with real criminals for months waiting to be trialed and deported. All of that because they believed the PM's lie, when he told them they are no advantages for them to cross the border illegally.

NewLeafsFan
September 24th, 2017, 12:43 AM
this isn't about my great grandparents... they came to this country legally.

as long as someone goes through the proper channels and is coming in to help the country bring them on in,

to just open the boarders for anyone and any reason is asinine in my opinion

The point that im trying to make is that I don't care if ppl are here legally or not. If they are escaping a dangerous situation and needed in now I wouldn't report them.

However, if i had good reason to suspect that they were here to participate in illegal activity then as a concerned member of my community I would have to report them.